So eating a chunk of hamburger can kill a vampire? O_o It's not possible for them to regurgitate anything? Cause it'd suck for them to accidentally choke on a bug and die...

What happens if a vampire is exposed to a form of chemical/gas such as Mustard Gas? Since it irritates exposed skin to cause blisters/bleeding, and vampires are capable of feeling, would these things have the same effect? although it'd regenerate, overtime if locked up in a gas-chamber, they could eventually die from being bled-dry, right?

When cut or such a vampire will bleed, correct? And can they control whether or not they bleed?

Regeneration:
Obviously flesh and such don't just magically appear out of no where. So is the vampire's body converting its stolen blood (almost like stem-cells) into what it needs? and is this subconscious or more instinctual?

And what's the rate for regenerating? If a vampire loses a limb, is it back in less than a minute? Days? (Weeks? O_o)

And what about neurotoxins from snake bites and such, obviously vampires still have nerves, otherwise they couldn't feel nor would their organs function. So these things would have similar effects as they do on humans. But since a vampire's biology now consists of...three flesh-masses really (esophagus, heart and lungs) the toxins could spread faster and stop these VERY vital fleshy bits faster, right?

And as a final note, you said in the original article you wanted to stay as scientific as possible. So what in sunlight hurts the vampires? The UV light? Or something else?

Just so you're aware, I've been forwarded this thread, and I'll answer you as soon as I have time. Expect a reply no later than Sunday.

Okay, response:

What passes into the throat and mouth can be coughed up. The body naturally has many defences against things getting in that aren't supposed to be there. The cilia coating the oesophagus are still present in vampires and would still be of aid to coughing up chunks of whatever that wasn't meant to go down. But, intentional eating, like biting into a hamburger and swallowing a large chunk--instant heart failure. So no hamburgers.

Yes, the vampire would be in extreme pain. I am not disputing that things fail to hurt vampires. Any vampire that inhaled these toxins would be affected. The extent, however, would be far less disastrous than if it were a human instead. The thing with mustard gas (And -most- known chemical toxins that lethally affect people) is that it takes time to kill someone--it isn't instant. Vampire regenerate far faster than the speed of chemical toxins. If you were to, hypothetically, lock a vampire in a room with a chemical reagent this powerful, I'd expect the vampire to starve faster than die of the gas. Because regeneration takes energy, which vampires get from blood, the process might be expedited, but, say you gave this vampire unlimited food, it would not die from the presense of the toxin.

Why the life expectancy of a vampire exposed to chemicals, like mustard gas, for the long term is being brought up, however, is slightly worrisome... What are you planning, here?

When cut, vampires will bleed. Cells still need to be regenerated. It is just the speed that is changed, when compared with humans. They cannot control whether or not they will bleed, or for how long, though I expect that, by resting and getting a full meal in 'em, vampires would heal even faster than normal.

When you get cut, red blood cells and plasma cells help form a clot that holds shut a wound while the skin cells divide and repair themselves. In vampires, since blood is what is being ingested, this blood is merely shuttled to any wounds to clot quickly. The skin cells divide rapidly and repair the wound. There is no need for cell conversion.

If a vampire loses a limb, I am tempted to say that they can kiss that limb goodbye. Simple scrapes and cuts would likely be fully healed before the night is through. Bruises would last a night or two, instead of a few weeks, and major gashes, broken bones, and the like would probably take a few nights. Kira can correct any of this if she feels like it should take longer.

Sure, it would spread faster. It would also be healed faster than the negative affects could take hold. If you want me to break it down into far more depth, I will, but I think I've already answered this in a way, above.

Something else. UV is just a wavelength of electrons in the photoelectric spectrum. What, exactly, that is will probably require a few hours of research on my part, about how cells can be negatively affected by exposure to the sun's radiation. Unless I do a research project on that in the future, you're gonna have to take the article's word for it.

Hope that helps.

They're able to regenerate faster than the toxin kills them, but what if it's something like acid/flames? Barring the vampire isn't weak against flames, wouldn't the active prescence of a continuously damaging agent cause the body to TRY and repair, but since it keeps burning/melting/whatever it cans till regenerate? O_o

Stakes, crosses, shotguns, chainsaws. Good and all...but lets try killing people with different things! =3

These two pretty much tie in together. How are the bones made and such? Cause I can understand the blood healing the tiny cuts and skin cells regenerating, but can vampires regenerate the bone-cells (does that exist? XD) and nerve cells? O.O

If vampires can regenerate fast enough to laugh off toxins like that, wouldn't they be able to regenerate like...the instant anything hits them?

So it's not really mystical, but not entirely religious? Just...something else XD

It does! sorry for bothering ya, just these're some of the normal questions I run into =/

Another question popped up after I finished this!

Are powers more mystically explained? Or are they more biological?

IOW: Do powers sort of 'naturally' occur like a skill human beings can gain, some being more naturally inclined than other, and are they in the near-realm of reality. Like there are possibly psychics out there, but as far as I know there isn't anybody manipulating gravity and stuff.

Or is it more like White Wolf where things are bit less explained and more other worldly?

I have a question for the hamburger thing!

Vampires have nerarly the same biological makeup of human biengs, aside from the obvious differences. But the build is the same, and the bodily cycles and processes are set up a certain way in the body, so unless the actual organs were to move around and reorder themselves, food doesn't go directly to the heart. It goes down the esophagus, to the stomach, through the small intestines and then the large. At NO point in the natural process of ingesting food does the actual food touch or enter the heart. The pnly part that goes near is the nutrients that are carted there by the red blood cells after being removed from the food.

Because the digestive process most likely has stopped, food wouldn't be digested, and could be choked on or give the vampire complications and such that could kill it, especially if it rots and festers in the stomach, but I think it's a little silly to say that food passes through the heart wholly and will kill the Vampire.

I have to say that the only plausible way for eating any and all types of food to kill them would be if the heart, after being embraced, contracted to a point where the valves couln't handle anything but liquid to go thorugh, then any amount of fat from foods could clog it up and cause heart failure. That's the only process that makes sense in my opinion.

If food were to go straight through the heart, it would be rediculous, humans would die from eating anything and everything, and that just doesn't happen.

If there's some big genetic explanation, feel free to explain this to me, because I just don't understand how you came to that conclusion about food.

(Not trying to be rude or anything.)

I can field Siva's post (by quoting the article Skirr wrote), but the rest I'm leaving with Skirr.

So, yes, things do rearrange themselves, so that biologically speaking, they really aren't functional as humans anymore.

I'm also adding a warning footnote. A lot of thought went into Vital's version of vampire biology. No, it isn't going to be perfectly scientific, because we are dealing with vampires, which do still have their mystical qualities.

We do get annoyed when people start trying to poke holes in everything. The aforementioned article was written mostly out of interest's sake, and so that people who encounter related questions in their RPs had somewhere to turn to to get answers without constantly talking to the mods about it.

I'm not closing the topic just yet, but both of you are getting to the point where it seems that you're just picking things apart for fun.

I'm not trying to disprove/eat anything, I just want to know "If I do this, you WILL die." I'd rather not assume things, cause that always leads to me getting in trouble =/

And yeah...Siva...that's IN the Biology topic xD

Oh! I'm sorry if I offended you, I missed that part. =/
I'm not trying to pick things apart for fun, it just struck me as something silly, that's all. Please don't be offended, I just wanted to give a little input on something I was mistaken about.

Sorry I got a little defensive there.

I'll bow out and leave Skirr to answer things. :heh:

Heh... Sorry to jump in... But I really just had a question that I thought was kind of important...

Well, vampires cry blood. Their bodily fluids all turn to blood.

What about things like ejaculation for make vampires? Is that blood as well? Because I was thinking, a woman has sex with a vampire, she realizes she's bleeding... Might freak her out a bit (not to mention that the guy, or girl, would have some explaining to do). And more importantly, what about a girl who goes down on a male vampire (Or vise versa). If it's all blood, wouldn't that turn the human into a vampire?

I've actually been wondering this for a while, but I ask because I think it might be something to know. Sorry if I'm making more ripples >.<

^ Also from Skirr's biology topic. :heh:

In answer to your second question, no, it wouldn't turn her into a vampire, unless she's been drained first (at which point she must be very set in her ways to still possess enough strength to, ah, perform the task ;)).

In the original biology thread it's stated that if a male Vampire ejaculates, it's just a little thing of blood. So...@_@

@ Marcus: It's all right! I'm sorry if it sounded like we're picking it a part! I just don't like being confused. Honestly if you say, "It's jsut that way because it is =/" That's all right! I'm just trying to explore other possibilities/questions-unasked xD But I play White-Wolf, so I'm fine with "It just is stupid. So stfu >>"

*babbling*

Maybe this could be compiled/neatened and added onto the biology topic? O.O

XD
It's no problem, I'm used to stuff like that.
Unlike my sister, I'm a real science geek, so I obsess a little over the scientific facts and stuff. I just like my facts to be credible, it's just an annoying habit, I guess.

I'm not Skirr, but actually I think I can answer this one.

With this question it's all about the amount of damage being regenerated. Think of it this way, if you prick your finger; it takes a lot less time to heal than say if you break a bone. The extent of the injury is directly proportional to the damage inflicted.

Something like a toxin is going to cause cellular or nerve damage usually, that tends to start on a microscopic level, and the affects that you witness are cumulative. In a vampire the affects wouldn’t accumulate. Indeed they’d heal as fast, if not faster than the supposed toxin could react. That is why Skirr’s answer was dead on target, as long as a vampire can regenerate, a toxin is completely ineffective.

Now if a vampire receives massive trauma; well again that’s going to take much longer to heal than simply cell or nerve damage.

I'm just going to say, as a disclaimer, that I don't mean to come across as rude or otherwise belittling. Please forgive any "tones" I might have in this post.

Skin does not catch fire like a patch of dry grass. It takes a while for damage to occur; it's not instantaneous. When you trip and fall and skin your knees, the damage is instant. With a burn, the damage is progressive. What I am arguing is that, because a certain threshold of damage must be obtained before any negative effects take hold, the cells of a vampires body dramatically slow the process by way of healing. So, say healthy skin is a 10, and charred, blackened skin is 0. Expose a vampire, not typically weakened by flames, to a hot fire, and the skin will slowly move from 10 to 0, but rapidly heal, so, move slowly from 0 to 10. Yes, the burning would happen, and healing isn't instantaneous, but neither is burn damage. After prolonged exposer to flames, I'd wager that the state of the skin would slowly move towards the 0 end at first, but more rapidly as the vampire begins to starve from lack of food. The death of the vampire would be due to starvation. The same scenario would hold true for toxins.

Two reasons why things are the way they are on this site: For one, in myth, vampires were only killed by the means we have outlined here. We'll call this a "spiritual" reason. The second reason is because the above are all instant. All non-instantaneous ways are ineffective, due to the above outline. You can call that the "biological" reason.

And, for the record? If you want to creatively kill a vampire, do so in foreplay and storyline. Write about something that isn't revenge based. That'd be way different and way more entertaining than watching you try and explain how you managed to get mustard gas into your possession is high enough quantities to kill a vampire and somehow not attract police/government attention.

Bones are made from marrow cells. These cells are made from blood cells. Wikipedia that for in-depth answers.

Kay, I'm off to class... If you have more questions, ask, and I'll get back to you.

Istar beat me to it--he's absolutely right and far more articulate about how to explain it. Thank you, Issie! :D

No problem! Plus you know I love hearing your explanations, so all of this was just fun for me. :heh:

Okay! Nothing long and drawn out. Instantaneous and massive damage is the way to go! *Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch!*

Thank you! ^^

Last time I checked the cells in the spinal cord could not heal beyond a very limited extent, so if a vampire takes spinal damage on a serious and instantanious level what kind of damage would we see long term? Also, any information on what would happen if a large amount of Dendrites where damaged in a vampire? On the level to which normal human paralysis would occur...could a vampire suffer from paralysis? :isee: (I love this smilie.)

Sorry, I've been reading the topic for a bit and I gotta love the awesomeness of Istar and Skirr's biology answers so I thought I'd toss out a question...if this is something which is a little to stupid to answer just toss out an "Because I said so!" Though, I don't think I've ever actually heard any of the people here say that...cept to coven wars of course.

Well this one is kinda hard to answer. But I'd like to take a crack at it anyway, Skirr's the expert on this though, so if my answer is a little lacking, well just wait for the master to appear.

Anyway.

First off I'd like to say that the spine is a rather complex area of the body, the basic nerve clusters, soft tissues, and the cord itself all work in tandem to allow movement, motor control, balance a whole lot more. That said if there is spinal damage, it would depend upon not just the extent, but the focus. Like you said Gabe, the spinal cells themselves have a very limited healing extent, but at the same time you have to remember that the nerves about the spine are just as important as the bone itself.

If there is enough respite on the nerves, spinal discs can be fused and damaged tissues or even bone removed. There would be visible affects usually in line with something like this, but not paralysis.

Simply put my best guess would be that vampiric regeneration would boost all the body's regenerative properties and likewise while it couldn't just heal such an injury, I'd think that the body could adapt around it and come up with its own solution. Medical science has actually seen this before, it doesn't happen often, but it does happen. Just with vampires it would probably be a lot more certain, it wouldn't be a pleasant situation, painful, plus the entire "healing/adaption" process would take a long time and during that time a vampire could potentially be paralyzed for a bit, but in the end the paralyzation wouldn't probably be permanent.

Still that would still be concurrent upon the vampire's feeding habits too. It takes blood to regen after all.

As for Dendrites, I would put that under the same cloak as cell regeneration. They would heal themselves rapidly and so no, probably not. I'd say vamps could be paralyzed for a bit, but with their sort of regeneration, time would heal all wounds so to speak.

Okay, since we're on biology questions, this one occurred to me while mulling over the Evil Triangle thing that was the sugarcane-rum-slave trade a few (hundred) years ago: Would going on a bender seriously harm a vampire? I don't know much on the biology of how a drinking binge affects the human body, but I do know that it screws with the water inside of you. Since vampires get all their water from blood and can't actually drink water, would becoming dehydrated be an issue?

I'm not trying to pick at things just to pick at them (though I could do that if I wanted to have my head imploded...) I was just curious.

Er, I don't want my head imploded either, but I had a question about the whole 'no piercing, no tattoos' thing with vampires.

In humans, tattoos become permanent because the ink is injected into the skin or whatever and then the flesh heals with the ink still in there. At least, that's what I think happens. Why wouldn't the same thing happen with vampires? The body isn't pushing out the tattoo ink, it's sealing it in. It seems like the only thing vampirism woudl do to affect tattoos is make them heal in faster. Same thing with piercings. The body heals around the piercing (ring, bar, whatever people stick into themselves).

:unsure:

Uh.... jus' sayin'. *hides under a rock*

I'll wait on Skirr to answer Rommy's question, but I think I can answer the tattoo and piercing one.

Alrighty, first while you're sort of right about tattoo, you have to remember that with a tattoo the ink or whatever pigment you use is inside the body, between layers of skin, which makes it a foreign body. As such the skin's immune system encapsulates pigment particles in fibrous tissue, and that is why the tattoo looks a bit different after it heals, it is literally contained and the body tries to expel the pigment without much success.

However this is in the normal human body and as we’ve said previously, the vampiric body has greater regenerative and recuperative resources and as such it would be able to expel the pigment where the human body is unable.

Short answer is the ink gets flushed out of the vampire body, so it would be hard to get a tattoo that way. However if a vampire were tattoo before they became a vampire, the ink or whatever pigment used would be gone, but like a character I have there might be old scar tissue. Vampires don’t scar much, but then again I would think that vampirism doesn’t repair old scars.

Okay, so now I have a question...does this mean that a blacklight or similar object that projects one form or another of UV light would not hurt a vampire? Or would they still be hurt? I'm confused.

Black lights aren't UV light. It's close to it, but it's closer to the visible light spectrum, so it wouldn't hurt vampires. I imagine it would bother their eyes perhaps if they are sensitive, because it falls under the 'fluorescent' category and some vampires don't like those. But because it emits a few UVA particles... I suppose if a vampire is very sensitive to them it might cause some damage.

THere are vampires who can walk in diffused sunlight, like in clouds or under clothing, So I imagine they wouldn't be hurt by it.

However, if your vampire is very sensitive to sunlight, black lights and clubs with them in might not be the best idea.

Well Colleen for example (my new char) is purely Nephim. She's just as sensitive as any other Nephim to sunlight and does wear sunglasses for most light, but are you saying she should stay away from like disco-style rooms and such then? Or would this be like a particular sensitivity to certain kinds of light?

can I add a little thorn?

I would think someone would struggle to find something in sunlight that would harm vamps, and that is absent in light bulbs... I could be wrong, of course, but I thought it warranted thinking about. :mwaha:

Well there are lots of things in sunlight that might or might not harm a vampire and that are not present in light bulbs. After all the average light bulb isn't that different from the light of a fire or a torch really, after all a light glows by heat conduction through either gas or gases, or conversely a filament coil, or a combination of the two.

Sunlight by comparison is made up of a lot of different wavelengths of light, some present in light bulbs, some not. There is also radiation, some inert, some not that comes from the sun and is defused through the atmosphere or perhaps there might even be some reaction between sunlight and the atmosphere that would magnify something not so serious to the point that it could be lethal for the vampire. That is to say that the reason sunlight harms vampires could be a rather complex one. After all in science sometimes its not the individual parts that make something work, but rather something or some reaction that makes things happen as they do.

Take red-tide as an example of that. Certain things only pose a problem under a certain set of conditions.

Bloodied Flesh, as for your answer, I’d say it would probably be a sensitivity to certain wavelengths of light, plus its your character, you can bend things as much as you’d like within reason. No daywalkers please!

P.S. Vix you’re better at this than me! I think you should be Skirr’s back up.

*Shakes head.*

You know, I think we should just go back to the fact that we're not dealing with the typical laws of physics. It seems to be much easier just to explain it as a supernatural phenomenon than as a scientific anomaly.

Another Q.

Can a vampire get sick. Not only cold-sick, but like smallpox or plague-sick? What about cancer? STDs? Alzheimers? Huh?

I think I already bugged Marcus about this.

No vampires can't get sick, or diseases. Their bodies can mend too quick for most bacterias and virus's to set in. Usually most germs have a incubation period before you start getting symptoms.

That would be my first thought. And the most logical and straight forward of them.

The second would be.... That virus' and bacterium both need viable, living hosts. Bacteria usually needs the warmth and the live cells to feed from, and a virus would need the live cell to replicate it's RNA. Without a live cell, the buggers wouldn't have a chance to work really.

BUT this begs the question of what of a vampire is technically alive... Lungs, stomach(kinda), liver, intestine kidney, gallbladder, pancreas, appendix.... uterus and other reproductive parts are all dead...

Muscles, eye, brain, heart, bone and blood... Well can't really be sure... I'd wait for a big wig on that one.

HOWEVER, I do believe my first little thing covers the answer pretty well. They might come in contact with the vampires body, but their bodies can regenerate from damage too quickly for it to really bother them, and without anything to live off of, they would soon die.


And any admin of course feel free to correct me on this, as I am but a lowly nerd :-P

I don't believe that for all intensive purposes vampires can get sick for the simple that that their organs are no longer present. So while they may be able to carry some diseases, I'm not sure on that, the fact is that as their body takes no harm from it they would show no signs of it no matter what the conditions were.

However, I'm not entirely sure when it comes to diseases of the blood, because vampires still bleed which suggests some type of circulation..., or brain diseases since vampires still do have brains. In regards to both of these all I can say is that cancer would not be a concern for the fact that since the body is dead tumors would not grow before cells would not mutate and the same goes for HIV.

This is just my opinion though and I am not a professional on...vampireology.

Hehe. Nerds aren't lowly...they're fun. :love: