After much consideration, I've gone for TWAFWOTF. But it was close.

TWAFWOTF--not even close for me.

No competition for me - Bend Sinister every time.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again : Fall 84 and me just don't mix too well (Lay of the Land and Elves excepted :))

Argh! I can't decide :wacko:
Of all the album trade offs this is the most difficult to call.

Both duff. WAFW is an over-polished turd. BS has some better songs but is almost unbearable due to being mastered at the wrong speed - US 80s-90s in particular is like a 45 being played at 33. :banghead:

Funny you say that. For years I had the original tape version of BS (with Town & Country Hobgoblins) and only bought the CD version a few years ago. When first played the CD from the very start of ROD I noticed it's a *lot* slower. The song it's really noticeable on is Dktr Faustus - it sounds terrible.
I guess I just got conditioned over the years to the tape, but now I don't know which is 'correct' - the tape or the CD, or neither?

Certainly not the CD. And I thought it was the same on every format. There was an interview with the producer John Leckie in which he talked about the mastering of that album from Mark's cassette player, which was playing too slow. I think that led to an argument that basically ended Leckie's involvement with the group (or maybe it was just another nail in the coffin).

I have never noticed any problem with Bend Sinister's speed. At which point is it distinctly noticeable? Is there a moment when Mark's voice sounds pitchshifted because of it?

I voted Bend Sinister either way. I love TWAFW but it's just a bit too lightweight. Bend Sinister seems both conceptually stronger and favors darker material... I love the richer, darker feel of "R.O.D.", "Dktr. Faustus," "Riddler!", etc.

US 80s-90s & Dktr Faustus have been mentioned above. Listen to the album compared to live versions from the period & it's obvious the album is too slow.

Hmm, I'll have to do that. Maybe that's one of its strongpoints, though... mastering it incorrectly made it too slow and therefore darker/weirder than the band intended? Seems like a vaguely typical Fall "accident," you know?

Besides, if they fixed it *now*, can't you just hear the purists already screaming about it?

Bend Sinister by a country mile.

I kind of agree with this... but not quite as strongly. Occasionally I quite like TWAFWOTF... but it is very sickly isn't it? TNSG towers over the albums immediately before and after it!

Sorry, when you talk about the album, are you talking about the original Beggars Banquet UK release LP or the CD re-issue, or both?

I've never heard about this before & I've never heard the CD. Maybe I'm just used to the LP, but it sounds "normal" to me.

For me, too close to call, I'm afraid...

Oh absolutely, there's no way it could ever be rereleased now at the "proper" speed. Assuming original pre-mastering tapes even still exist.

I've found the John Leckie interview in Melody Maker, May 1999:

"We'd mixed it, everyone was happy and we ran some cassette copies off, but when it came to cutting it, after side one he said, 'What are you fucking playing at? Do you think I'm some kind of twat? That's not the mix we decided on. You've done another one.' And insisted I listen to his Dolby chrome cassette, which was running at slightly the wrong speed. So the whole album was cut from his cassette." He shakes his head before good-naturedly adding, "We haven't spoken since.""

So, I take it from that interview that every format is the same & there's no difference between the UK & US releases.

:D Excellent! Love Bend Sinister, it ranks far above TWAFWOTF. I have never noticed any errors in it. It´s kinda murky, for me it's just the sound of the 80s!

That explains a lot. I never liked US 80s 90s until Live Cambridge CD (where it is faaaaan-tastic!). Being a Doomsday Triad person, I only got Bend Sinister and heard "Faustus" a couple months ago. You are right -- it sounds wrong as well.

When we were putting together the 50,000 Fall Fans compilation, on my first listen to the CD masters I was convinced they'd cocked up US 80s-90s, probably being more familiar with live bootleg versions. I had to get out Bend Sinister to compare it before I believed it was at the same speed as the original studio release. :lol:

I can now report that Dktr. Faustus (Bend Sinister vers.) Sounds best at speed +1% (more in tune than at reg speed or at +2%).* It would probably sound better at +.75%, but am too lazy to convert the song into a format that my good software can read.

* Nitpicky footnote: do not try this with a CD in the UK because it is probably a copyright infringement there.

At last - a usage for my variable-speed-record-player.
Can report that the entire side A sounds great in +6% !!!!

Don't particularly like either, apart from the odd track, but BS was the one that finally caused me to lose interest in/patience with The Fall, which lasted until 2003.

50,000 Fans convinces me there's good stuff to go back over in the interim, though.

I love both: WAFW is sunshine to BS's gloomy mist.

Very easy for me.

Bend Sinister is my favourite Fall album. TWAFWOTF is my least favourite.

has to be bend sinister for me, i just lose interest after a certain point with TWAFWOTF. i have BS on tape though and have never noticed the slowness thing people are talking about. then again i dont have anything to compare it too :(

Agreed

I reckon those spotty twerps from Radiohead regard Bend Sinister as a template for their pomp nonsense, therefore it has to be TWAFWOTF for me :lol:

How do you reckon that one then??? Give me comparible tunes

And does which Radiohead Lp does BS sound like exactly Pablo Honey? Kid A ?

TWAFWOTF by a country mile.

Radiohead never really *sounds* like the Fall, but they did do an album called The Bends using the same producer (John Leckie) as Bend Sinister.

Further to my comments earlier in the thread: I will NEVER listen to this LP again without turning the speed up +1%. I have slagges "Living Too Late" before, thinking the short dissonant parts were the only good ones. What a bad mistake! The riff is just fine when played at the right speed.

I have the vinyl, but haven't listened to it since 1989. I wonder if those versions have the same problem (I wouldn't have realized back then).

Well, theoretically speaking, "Living Too Late" should be unaffected because it was not mastered as part of the album?

Do you mean the vinyl version would have been mastered differently than the CD version? That is what I was thinking / hoping, but who knows how MES did things. I really hope they fix the problem when they remaster Bend Sinister. I am not generally one for tampering with history (boo on the reworked "Garden"), but this one is such an easy fix and indisputable improvement. It is not like the vocals and instruments are at different speeds from each other.

When I got the Bend Sinister cd at last (in response to some cajoling on this board) my overall impression was that it sounded like it wasn't a real album meant for release, like it was demos or something. In my head, I was blaming the songwriting and performance, like the songs hadn't been fully written or the band was uncomfortable playing them. Apparently that was a wrong theory bcs the small speed adjustment makes that impression clear right off.

One day I'm in need of a listen to Bend Sinister. I listen to it and feel much better.

Another day I'm in need of a shot of TWAFWOTF......which I self-administer and feel much better for. Especially good for getting through the housework.

Bend Sinister for me please. :D

I originally went for TWAFWOTF. What was I thinking? Bend Sinister it is (today)!

Bend Sinister; my favourite Fall album. I don't give a toss about how it's at the wrong speed, etc - it sounds fantastic to me. US 80s - 90s especially, its loping lugubriousness is hypnotic.

Whilst on the subject of wrong speeds, etc, though: my vinyl version of BS was pressed off-centre on Side 2, so the pitch fluctuates queasily - this is especially notable from the final minuntes of Bournemouth Runner onwards. So, when I got the CD, I naturally though it sounded odd - and I *still* prefer my off-centre vinyl version.

Skagra

:applaud: :applaud: :applaud:

My preference may change daily, but US 80s-90s is always a corker. Was disappointed it didn't fare better in the 'What's Your Favourite Track....?' poll.


Actually, I've just looked at the 'favourite track' poll and it won! Get in!

Hard choice but TWAFWOTF gets the edge.