Amongst Chip Priests' collected moans about the Fall is a contention that MES's knob twiddling ruins Fall gigs. For me it is and integral part of his and The Fall's live appeal. What do you think?

More knob twiddling please.

It would in no way stop me from going to a Fall show (like they ever play here anyway), but I think it's about the lamest thing you could possibly do.

He does make me laff when he wanders around seeing what mischief he can do

:lol:

Can somebody explain what this actually achieves? I imagine that its appeal would be limited to serial Fall gig attenders who are bored with the music.

Yes, it's the mooching about generally making a nuisance of himself that's the most fun.

And the recipients reaction to his interferance. :D

Does the hilarity wear off at all after you've seen the same tricks done a few times?

No, it actually becomes more hilarious.

Take the time MES left the mic on the keyboard at the end of Blindness on the Jools Holland show.

Hilarious.

Yes and that led to Jools joining in with the feedback if you remember - effectively Jools Holland appearing on a Fall track. Whatever next!

I only go about once a year, but I really enjoyed him turning down the guitar amp at Hackney Empire last year, it made a familiar track (50 Year Old Man, I think it was) into a whole new, and pretty exciting, thing.

Granny on bongos i imagine.

Thankfully MES vetoed any ideas of a bit of boogie-woogie piano accompanyment. :lol:

The last but one time I saw them he shoved the whole band through a flanger after the first 4 songs and it was complete bollocks. He even had a roadie do a couple of his songs. It really really was a disgrace.

So you went back for more, then? ;)

The one after that was so boring we all went home before the end. He just didn't give a toss. Hardly anybody was watching the band they were just talking to each other and going out early. You could tell Smith had just walked on without rehearsing. I even had people who weren't at the gig telling me it was a good gig, it wasn't it was crap. Perhaps my standards are too high? Ten crap gigs suggests not.

I solved my Fall gig problem by just sending Smith the money at home so he doesn't actually have to do any work any more.

"Live mixing"is how it was described in the doco.

Jim Morrison got busted for knob twiddling on stage too.

No point in having a knob if you don't twiddle it. They were made for twiddling, lack of such makes them seize up.

maybe he's looking for 11

I suspect you've had a few unlucky strikes there and what The Fall are doing now doesn't chime with you.

I've been there a couple of times...I walked out of a gig once (London summer 2007) as they just seemed crap, and others agreed when I walked out.

There's been times I've thought, hmm what are they doing, where is this going, but then I've "tuned in" after a while and/or they've hit their stride.

As for the point of the knob-twiddling, clearly we're probably going to be at odds on this, but while yes, there are times I've not appreciated it going from a one guitar line-up for a song to a zero guitar line-up, generally I think go ahead to him, as

1) MES has a proven ability to bring out the best in musicians by throwing them in at the deep-end / keeping them on an edge (musicians thrive on this, I've witnessed it myself as I run live music nights)

2) While sometimes the onstage soundmix for me at least means I don't always appreciate the difference in sound the knob twiddling makes, I know I've appreciated it in live recordings, the sudden change in the sound...the second guitar suddenly coming to the fore etc (sounds more exciting than it reads, obviously! :) ).


I'd say bear with them...over what period of time were these 10 gigs? I'd be surprised if they were over a number of years as that would suggest to me you've been very unlucky. I've seen not so good gigs then come back seen another and been astounded a year later, and thought, shit, why didn't I go to the last local-ish one now they're this good! :)

Either that or like I say the Fall aren't reaching you so maybe time to move on...there are some bands I've loved who I no longer listen to, happens to us all.

:)

I see it as, in general, rather pointless.

I would prefer the sound to be sorted during a soundcheck, and then now and again, if MES felt something needed adjusting then go and do it.

Instead it's become a predictable part of the show to the point where Ben Pritchard rigged his effects pedals so that when MES mucked about with the knobs he could bring it back to the original settings by a press on a foot pedal. He claimed MES didn't notice this.

I can't say it's made a huge difference to me really. I find Safi Sniper, late starts, shorts sets and any combination of these far more irritating.

I always liked Big Ben. Brilliant!

sometimes the knob twidling works really well

others not so

but ive not seen a bad fall gig in years so im happy :)

From about 1996 to 2007. I don't go now. Every gig is fantastic according to the reviews on this message board, so you think, right - I'll go and see them next time I can, only to find out that they are still shite. Smith's too lazy now.

Thanks for the most rational post in the thread.

Agree with this so much.

i like the knob twiddling b/c for me it is as if he is doing musical experimentation b4 my very eyes !!

I think that's a different kind of knob twiddling.

uh ? :mellow:

I love the knob twiddling!!!! It's exciting and adds to the "live" experience!!

Except when MES twiddles in a malicious manner to intimidate the musicians, which I believe we've all seen. It's about the Master having control over his tools.

It's probably great if you can see them 10 times a year and are bored with the set.

I've witnessed it working more often than not. I'm surprised any Fall fan has to ask what it's about - it's about shaking things up, adding a level of rawness, spontaneity and unpredictability. I love Steely Dan but the Fall are not Steely Dan. At some of the recent gigs I've seen, MES whacked up the bass and guitar at one point and the music became instantly twice as good. It's not that he's doing some very delicate "mixing" as Elena would like us to think, it's instinctive, perhaps not always appropriate, but exciting.

The man is an uncompromising menace on stage. It’s got to be the knob twiddling for me. Mostly like it cos of the anticipation and thinking wtf’s next.

Does anyone else do knob twiddling to this excess?

Orbital came a close second.

Link Wray can be heard twiddling his knobs during 'Rumble'. I think that may be where MES got the idea! :lol:

There's plenty of acts around that can sound different and create surprises without touching a single knob. Smith's just a fool who wants to sabotage his own gigs and piss off one in 4 of his fans to such a degree that they won't go and see his band. A 25% cut in income - what a daft git.

Of course HPAFP was joking when he said it was getting a bit boring. Personally, I admire his dedication and enthusiasm.

That made me really laugh hard.

Orbital is my wife's favourite band as it happens - took her to the last Brixton gig this year, least they played 'satan' - which was her first choice for going up the wedding isle. Not very interesting reading that back, but am pissed so up it goes...

not sure 25% is right for people being pissed off, I'd have though he'd have been aiming higher than that. I'd be a little disappointed if he wasn't knob-twiddling away, it wouldn't be right.

Going by the votes made by mug punters on this very thread

we get it.

you dont like the knob twiddling.

but like- what r u gonna do ?

he isnt going to stop.

mayeb you could go to every gig and shout STOP THAT YOU FOOL.

We know he reads the forum. Now he knows that a significant number of his fans probably dislike him doing it enough to actually stop going to see him play live. Live gigs are where his income comes from, so he's now going to realise that he can boost his income by 25% per gig by not interfering. What am I going to do? - I'm already doing it - I'm not going to see the Fall play again (for many more reasons than this single issue) until there are some serious changes and I'm probably not going to buy any more "product". I have already advocated direct action at gigs, suggesting that the audience throw things at him when he does it until he gets the message.

Interesting you say about the throwing, I noted an 'I love you' badge, empty bottle of water, and half a cd case thrown on stage at the last Koko gig. Didn't change too much. 'Spat peanuts in my hair' springs to mind, but that was a long time ago. Was there ever a time when he didn't knob-twiddle?

Perhaps in your eyes I'm a mug, but honestly think it's a good sound live if you're near the front, you'll not change my view.

If you're who I'm thinking of, I could well of purchased some of your FALL back catalogue from ebay, which I thank you for.