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Title: The Great American Novel


Stephen - November 10, 2009 03:40 PM (GMT)
List borrowed from this Amazon.com page.

Some years ago - never mind how long precisely - having little or no money in my purse, and nothing particular to interest me on shore, I thought I would sail about a little and see the watery part of the world. It is a way I have of driving off the spleen, and regulating the circulation. Whenever I find myself growing grim about the mouth; whenever it is a damp, drizzly November in my soul; whenever I find myself involuntarily pausing before coffin warehouses, and bringing up the rear of every funeral I meet; and especially whenever my hypos get such an upper hand of me, that it requires a strong moral principle to prevent me from deliberately stepping into the street, and methodically knocking people's hats off - then, I account it high time to get to sea as soon as I can. This is my substitute for pistol and ball. With a philosophical flourish Cato throws himself upon his sword; I quietly take to the ship. There is nothing surprising in this. If they but knew it, almost all men in their degree, some time or other, cherish very nearly the same feelings towards the ocean with me.

Dice Man - November 10, 2009 03:45 PM (GMT)
Too hard to select just one atm, but I like to mention John Dos Passos’ »Manhattan Transfer«. File under »modern«, but don’t let that scare you. Great, great stuff, one of my favourite books ever.

Mr. Marshall - November 10, 2009 03:55 PM (GMT)
Blimey what a wealth of riches!

From the list:

Moby dick
Sound and fury
On the road
Slaughterhouse five
Naked lunch
Invisible man
Gravity's rainbow

All you need right there.

I'd also add:

Herzog by Saul Bellow
American Pastoral/I married a communist/Sabbath's theater by Philip Roth
Days between stations/Tours of the black clock by Steve Erickson

and not novels but more important than that:

Howl & Kaddish by Allen Ginsberg.


Those yanks eh? Head & shoulders above Brit writers.

Great poll by the way.

I choose Naked Lunch.

Mr. Marshall - November 10, 2009 03:55 PM (GMT)
Posted twice. :ohdear:

biggestlibraryyet - November 10, 2009 04:00 PM (GMT)
Great list! Almost all of these are great, with the exception of Uncle Tom's Cabin. It was a really IMPORTANT American novel, but as far as literary merit goes, it sucks.

I can't decide if I should vote for the one I like the most or the one I think is "best".

To be continued.

Ducky - November 10, 2009 04:18 PM (GMT)
Moby Dick.


But so many treasures.

Brickah Chipah - November 10, 2009 04:20 PM (GMT)
White [fucking] Noise? ugh.

Many of these are essential reads, but only allowed to pick one? Huck Finn edges Moby Dick and Gatsby. (For those who haven't read it and might think it's a children's book, er, well, it's not.)

Mr. Marshall - November 10, 2009 04:25 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Brickah Chipah @ Nov 10 2009, 05:20 PM)
White [fucking] Noise? ugh.

Many of these are essential reads, but only allowed to pick one? Huck Finn edges Moby Dick and Gatsby. (For those who haven't read it and might think it's a children's book, er, well, it's not.)

Agree about delillo. Overrated, apart from Libra which is a masterpiece.

Stephen - November 10, 2009 04:26 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Brickah Chipah @ Nov 10 2009, 04:20 PM)
Many of these are essential reads, but only allowed to pick one?

Fritter - November 10, 2009 04:27 PM (GMT)
What a list.

Faulkner
Melville
Fennimore-Cooper - I've since read criticism that it's very dull and overwrought, but at the time I thought that's what things must've been like then. Amazing.

Of the top of the head, I would add American Psycho. And Bluebeard, but then Slaughterhouse 5 is the obvious choice for a Vonnegut entry.

The only person I'd question on this list is Don DeLillo, I suspect even he realises how far he is overrated.

Zoot Horn Polo - November 10, 2009 04:30 PM (GMT)
Other.

Vanity of Duluoz by Jack Kerouac.

Stephen - November 10, 2009 04:32 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Fritter @ Nov 10 2009, 04:27 PM)
Of the top of the head, I would add American Psycho. And Bluebeard, but then Slaughterhouse 5 is the obvious choice for a Vonnegut entry.

The only person I'd question on this list is Don DeLillo, I suspect even he realises how far he is overrated.

I love White Noise. I think people miss how funny Don DeLillo is because he's so ultra-deadpan. It's satire done in a different way.

The best Vonnegut is Mother Night, in my opinion.

Mr. Marshall - November 10, 2009 04:36 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Stephen @ Nov 10 2009, 05:32 PM)
QUOTE (Fritter @ Nov 10 2009, 04:27 PM)
Of the top of the head, I would add American Psycho.  And Bluebeard, but then Slaughterhouse 5 is the obvious choice for a Vonnegut entry.

The only person I'd question on this list is Don DeLillo, I suspect even he realises how far he is overrated.

I love White Noise. I think people miss how funny Don DeLillo is because he's so ultra-deadpan. It's satire done in a different way.

The best Vonnegut is Mother Night, in my opinion.

That's a great one. I mean they're all good. I suppose Slaughterhouse 5 has the cachet.

duckpin236 - November 10, 2009 04:38 PM (GMT)
In my reading, and I think I've read all but three or four of these books, the finest USA novel is
The Recognitions by William Gaddis,[imo]
My favorite writing are long parts of Visions of Cody by Jack Kerouac...no one had written like that before.[also recommend: Doctor Sax and Dharma Bums by Jack]

I enjoyed Nova Express more than Naked Lunch for some reason

I would put Howl in a class by itself, not that Kaddish isn't wonderful. I would add Bomb by Gregory Corso while we're on this subject.

A thumbs up goes to William Gass for The Tunnel; overlooked when it shouldn't be.

Gore Vidal said, "The tragedy of America is that it could produce an Ernest Hemingway and not get the joke"...make of that what you will

Gravity's Rainbow is excellent but I've only read it twice and I've felt the need to read The Recognitions 5 times[all 960 pages]. JR by Gaddis I rate highly.

Philip Whalen called Mexico City Blues, by Jackie, as "the greatest religious poem of the twentieth century"

Somebody tell me why Phillip Roth doesn't rate with people the way Bellow did when he's, to me anyway, much more enjoyable to read?

Mark Twain is world class and his essays are wonderful reading too

The Recognitions.

Mr. Marshall - November 10, 2009 04:43 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (duckpin236 @ Nov 10 2009, 05:38 PM)

I enjoyed Nova Express more than Naked Lunch for some reason


And I enjoyed The ticket that exploded more but Naked Lunch is so pivotal, along with Howl.

Ducky - November 10, 2009 04:52 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Fritter @ Nov 10 2009, 04:27 PM)


The only person I'd question on this list is Don DeLillo, I suspect even he realises how far he is overrated.

I realise I'm in a minority of one but I think the breadth, scope and execution of 'Underworld' is sublime.

He calls to mind John Cheever, in a good way.

duckpin236 - November 10, 2009 04:56 PM (GMT)
Naked Lunch is pivotal, I totally agree; and, it's probably "better" than the other two. With Nova, it was probably my mood not the book.
Pivotal...a landmark; however you want to describe it along those lines

A Worried Man - November 10, 2009 05:43 PM (GMT)
This poll has four of the books or writers that have caused me the most disappointment when I read them, namely, Ernest Hemingway, William Faulkner, Jack Kerouac and Thomas Pynchon.

I used to like William Burroughs when I was a teenager but I suspect that was because I was jolly impressed by him going on about heroin and bumming.

I cannot remember a single thing about Moby Dick, but I admit that says more about me than the book.

I've got a soft spot for Fenimore Cooper, terrible hack that he was. I'm never going to read another thing he wrote.




imaglasgowmanmyself - November 10, 2009 05:49 PM (GMT)
ive only read 5 of these

but slaughterhouse 5 is probably my favourite book ever and grapes of wrath is probably my least favourite ever - it just became a person challenge to finish it

Fritter - November 10, 2009 06:07 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Ducky @ Nov 11 2009, 04:52 AM)
QUOTE (Fritter @ Nov 10 2009, 04:27 PM)


The only person I'd question on this list is Don DeLillo, I suspect even he realises how far he is overrated.

I realise I'm in a minority of one but I think the breadth, scope and execution of 'Underworld' is sublime.

He calls to mind John Cheever, in a good way.

Fair enough, I think in retrospect "over-rated" should have read "not liked by me".

delmore - November 10, 2009 06:08 PM (GMT)
S. Clemons. But I got some reading to do.

I read Moby Dick. I would put it on quite a different list.

Cappuccino and a slice of quiche - November 10, 2009 06:20 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Mr. Marshall @ Nov 11 2009, 04:25 AM)
QUOTE (Brickah Chipah @ Nov 10 2009, 05:20 PM)
White [fucking] Noise? ugh.

Many of these are essential reads, but only allowed to pick one? Huck Finn edges Moby Dick and Gatsby. (For those who haven't read it and might think it's a children's book, er, well, it's not.)

Agree about delillo. Overrated, apart from Libra which is a masterpiece.


I agree - although re Ducky's observation, I do wonder if Underworld would seem far better second time around. But at that length, I'm simply not prepared to take the risk.

Surely The Great American Novel by Philip Roth should be on this list!

Anyway, I vote for The Black Dahlia.

Or if you only ever read it once, Catch 22. It definitely palls on further readings, which must be a sign of its limitations. Maybe it's because I was so young, but it seemed totally mind-blowing when I first read it.

Dark horse: The Night (Alone) by Richard Meltzer. He says it's his masterpiece and who am I to disagree.


duckpin236 - November 10, 2009 06:21 PM (GMT)
One of the nicest things I did for myself was to read all of Kerouac's personal novels in the order they occurred starting with Visions of Gerard and ending with Big Sur. They weren't written in this order but it makes for a good story, reading them as they happened
Jack wrote Vanity of Duluoz when his alcoholism was out of control and it's still an excellent book worth a read or reread.

Buy Kurious! - November 10, 2009 06:22 PM (GMT)
No Dan Brown!? Oh, please. <_<

Mr. Marshall - November 10, 2009 06:23 PM (GMT)
Richard Brautigan? You've got to love that old hippy!

Fritter - November 10, 2009 06:24 PM (GMT)
I'd make a case for Jim Thompson's A Hell Of A Woman being a Great American Novel.

A Worried Man - November 10, 2009 06:25 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Cappuccino and a slice of quiche @ Nov 11 2009, 06:20 AM)
QUOTE (Mr. Marshall @ Nov 11 2009, 04:25 AM)
QUOTE (Brickah Chipah @ Nov 10 2009, 05:20 PM)
White [fucking] Noise? ugh.

Many of these are essential reads, but only allowed to pick one? Huck Finn edges Moby Dick and Gatsby. (For those who haven't read it and might think it's a children's book, er, well, it's not.)

Agree about delillo. Overrated, apart from Libra which is a masterpiece.


I agree - although re Ducky's observation, I do wonder if Underworld would seem far better second time around. But at that length, I'm simply not prepared to take the risk.


At that length, I'm not prepared to give it one go, let alone two.

delmore - November 10, 2009 06:34 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (duckpin236 @ Nov 10 2009, 02:21 PM)
One of the nicest things I did for myself was to read all of Kerouac's personal novels in the order they occurred starting with Visions of Gerard and ending with Big Sur. They weren't written in this order but it makes for a good story, reading them as they happened
Jack wrote Vanity of Duluoz when his alcoholism was out of control and it's still an excellent book worth a read or reread.

Vanity of Duluoz was my favourite book by him.

Buy Kurious! - November 10, 2009 06:34 PM (GMT)
I gave up on Catcher in the Rye.

Cappuccino and a slice of quiche - November 10, 2009 06:34 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (A Worried Man @ Nov 11 2009, 06:25 AM)
QUOTE (Cappuccino and a slice of quiche @ Nov 11 2009, 06:20 AM)
QUOTE (Mr. Marshall @ Nov 11 2009, 04:25 AM)
QUOTE (Brickah Chipah @ Nov 10 2009, 05:20 PM)
White [fucking] Noise? ugh.

Many of these are essential reads, but only allowed to pick one? Huck Finn edges Moby Dick and Gatsby. (For those who haven't read it and might think it's a children's book, er, well, it's not.)

Agree about delillo. Overrated, apart from Libra which is a masterpiece.


I agree - although re Ducky's observation, I do wonder if Underworld would seem far better second time around. But at that length, I'm simply not prepared to take the risk.


At that length, I'm not prepared to give it one go, let alone two.


Quite.


Dice Man - November 10, 2009 06:38 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Mr. Marshall @ Nov 10 2009, 08:23 PM)
Richard Brautigan? You've got to love that old hippy!

:applaud:

Buy Kurious! - November 10, 2009 06:44 PM (GMT)
I voted for Huck Finn, in the end.

duckpin236 - November 10, 2009 06:55 PM (GMT)
so you liked Duluoz too?; it is a good book written under difficult circumstances

Ducky - November 10, 2009 08:01 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (A Worried Man @ Nov 10 2009, 06:25 PM)
QUOTE (Cappuccino and a slice of quiche @ Nov 11 2009, 06:20 AM)
QUOTE (Mr. Marshall @ Nov 11 2009, 04:25 AM)
QUOTE (Brickah Chipah @ Nov 10 2009, 05:20 PM)
White [fucking] Noise? ugh.

Many of these are essential reads, but only allowed to pick one? Huck Finn edges Moby Dick and Gatsby. (For those who haven't read it and might think it's a children's book, er, well, it's not.)

Agree about delillo. Overrated, apart from Libra which is a masterpiece.


I agree - although re Ducky's observation, I do wonder if Underworld would seem far better second time around. But at that length, I'm simply not prepared to take the risk.


At that length, I'm not prepared to give it one go, let alone two.

:lol:


Try the first- albeit lengthy-chapter.

Orphiztic - November 10, 2009 08:12 PM (GMT)
Has to be "On The Road" for me Love that book's character.

duckpin236 - November 10, 2009 08:20 PM (GMT)
if you haven't heard Jack read from On The Road, you have a treat coming

Orphiztic - November 10, 2009 08:25 PM (GMT)
I'll have a look for that DP as I've never heard him actually read it.

Brickah Chipah - November 10, 2009 08:43 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Stephen @ Nov 11 2009, 04:26 AM)
QUOTE (Brickah Chipah @ Nov 10 2009, 04:20 PM)
Many of these are essential reads, but only allowed to pick one?

Thanks -- wasn't criticizing the poll, just citing the difficulty in choosing the *one* G.A.N.

Brickah Chipah - November 10, 2009 09:06 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Dice Man @ Nov 11 2009, 03:45 AM)
Too hard to select just one atm, but I like to mention John Dos Passos’ »Manhattan Transfer«. File under »modern«, but don’t let that scare you. Great, great stuff, one of my favourite books ever.

Didn't see this before. Dos Passos' USA would definitely make my short list of G.A.N. candidates.

Stephen - November 10, 2009 09:09 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Brickah Chipah @ Nov 10 2009, 08:43 PM)
QUOTE (Stephen @ Nov 11 2009, 04:26 AM)
QUOTE (Brickah Chipah @ Nov 10 2009, 04:20 PM)
Many of these are essential reads, but only allowed to pick one?

Thanks -- wasn't criticizing the poll, just citing the difficulty in choosing the *one* G.A.N.

Feel free to criticize the poll. It wouldn't be the FOF without people criticizing polls.




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