Title: Berlin!
Description: East or West???
elvischomsky - November 9, 2009 08:06 PM (GMT)
The answer is "East".
Thank you.
Grease For Roads - November 9, 2009 08:13 PM (GMT)
elvischomsky - November 9, 2009 08:16 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Grease For Roads @ Nov 9 2009, 08:13 PM) |
| The East - Neukoln! |
Ja, das kann man wohl sagen!!!!
nlgbbbblth - November 9, 2009 08:26 PM (GMT)
always East.
East Germany are my second favourite international team after the Republic of Ireland.
Mere Pseud. - November 9, 2009 08:28 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (elvischomsky @ Nov 9 2009, 09:16 PM) |
| QUOTE (Grease For Roads @ Nov 9 2009, 08:13 PM) | | The East - Neukoln! |
Ja, das kann man wohl sagen!!!!
|
Ja, man kann sagen, dass Neukölln in Westberlin liegt. :P
The west is the best. (©Jim Morrison) ;)
elvischomsky - November 9, 2009 08:30 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Mere Pseud. @ Nov 9 2009, 08:28 PM) |
| QUOTE (elvischomsky @ Nov 9 2009, 09:16 PM) | | QUOTE (Grease For Roads @ Nov 9 2009, 08:13 PM) | | The East - Neukoln! |
Ja, das kann man wohl sagen!!!!
|
Ja, man kann sagen, dass Neukölln in Westberlin liegt. :P
The west is the best. (©Jim Morrison) ;)
|
Keine Ahnung! Jeder? :unsure:
Mere Pseud. - November 9, 2009 08:39 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (elvischomsky @ Nov 9 2009, 09:30 PM) |
| QUOTE (Mere Pseud. @ Nov 9 2009, 08:28 PM) | | QUOTE (elvischomsky @ Nov 9 2009, 09:16 PM) | | QUOTE (Grease For Roads @ Nov 9 2009, 08:13 PM) | | The East - Neukoln! |
Ja, das kann man wohl sagen!!!!
|
Ja, man kann sagen, dass Neukölln in Westberlin liegt. :P
The west is the best. (©Jim Morrison) ;)
|
Keine Ahnung! Jeder? :unsure:
|
Neukölln is located in West Berlin. <_<
The quote from "The End" obviously wasn't meant seriously as I only know the western part.
elvischomsky - November 9, 2009 08:42 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Mere Pseud. @ Nov 9 2009, 08:39 PM) |
| QUOTE (elvischomsky @ Nov 9 2009, 09:30 PM) | | QUOTE (Mere Pseud. @ Nov 9 2009, 08:28 PM) | | QUOTE (elvischomsky @ Nov 9 2009, 09:16 PM) | | QUOTE (Grease For Roads @ Nov 9 2009, 08:13 PM) | | The East - Neukoln! |
Ja, das kann man wohl sagen!!!!
|
Ja, man kann sagen, dass Neukölln in Westberlin liegt. :P
The west is the best. (©Jim Morrison) ;)
|
Keine Ahnung! Jeder? :unsure:
|
Neukölln is located in West Berlin. <_<
The quote from "The End" obviously wasn't meant seriously as I only know the western part.
|
Danke für Reinigung, die herauf. :wacko:
Zoot Horn Polo - November 9, 2009 08:55 PM (GMT)
West.
As they say in Germany:
"The East is a khazi
Run by the Stasi
Whereas the West is bang on
Especially Dusseldorf and Bonn."
It loses a bit in translation, but you get the gist.
Grease For Roads - November 9, 2009 09:59 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Mere Pseud. @ Nov 9 2009, 09:28 PM) |
| QUOTE (elvischomsky @ Nov 9 2009, 09:16 PM) | | QUOTE (Grease For Roads @ Nov 9 2009, 08:13 PM) | | The East - Neukoln! |
Ja, das kann man wohl sagen!!!!
|
Ja, man kann sagen, dass Neukölln in Westberlin liegt. :P
The west is the best. (©Jim Morrison) ;)
|
What's German for "pedant"?
DJAsh - November 9, 2009 10:09 PM (GMT)
I'm told that Ostbanhof is a great place to 'bunny hop'
Dice Man - November 10, 2009 12:41 AM (GMT)
Divvey - November 10, 2009 02:34 AM (GMT)
This conversation is a luxury.
Had we grown up & lived under the control of the East I think our opinions may be different.
A fondness for their kitsch is not sufficient grounds to applaud a system that oppressed its citizenry.
Neal Cassady - November 10, 2009 08:53 AM (GMT)
I can honestly say that Berlin is the best city I have EVER visited - the gluvine may have well blurred my view somewhat though :)
West is best, but east is a beast.
Mr. Marshall - November 10, 2009 03:08 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Dice Man @ Nov 10 2009, 01:41 AM) |
 |
Prenzlauer berg!!!!!!!!!!!
imaglasgowmanmyself - November 10, 2009 05:53 PM (GMT)
i couldnt possibly say
but i visited berlin 2 or 3 years back and loved it all
A Worried Man - November 10, 2009 05:59 PM (GMT)
I was wondering about this the other day- how much territory did West Berlin take up? By this I mean, was it literally just the west part of the city, or did the area called "West Berlin" also include some country around the city, if you see what I mean? I suppose what I'm getting is, if you fancied going to the countryside and you lived in West Berlin would you have to travel all the way to West Germany? I'm wondering how claustrophobic West Berlin was, surrounded by East Germany.
Fritter - November 10, 2009 06:04 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (A Worried Man @ Nov 11 2009, 05:59 AM) |
| I was wondering about this the other day- how much territory did West Berlin take up? By this I mean, was it literally just the west part of the city, or did the area called "West Berlin" also include some country around the city, if you see what I mean? I suppose what I'm getting is, if you fancied going to the countryside and you lived in West Berlin would you have to travel all the way to West Germany? I'm wondering how claustrophobic West Berlin was, surrounded by East Germany. |
There was a surprising amount of countryside in West Berlin; when I went all the way round the wall a lot of it felt like being out in the country. At least, that's how I remember it.
A Worried Man - November 10, 2009 06:07 PM (GMT)
I'm slightly relieved by that.
marvell78 - November 13, 2009 06:27 PM (GMT)
went for east
Friedrichshain (a bit gentrified but not there yet, so tolerable
elvischomsky - November 13, 2009 07:55 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Fritter @ Nov 10 2009, 06:04 PM) |
| QUOTE (A Worried Man @ Nov 11 2009, 05:59 AM) | | I was wondering about this the other day- how much territory did West Berlin take up? By this I mean, was it literally just the west part of the city, or did the area called "West Berlin" also include some country around the city, if you see what I mean? I suppose what I'm getting is, if you fancied going to the countryside and you lived in West Berlin would you have to travel all the way to West Germany? I'm wondering how claustrophobic West Berlin was, surrounded by East Germany. |
There was a surprising amount of countryside in West Berlin; when I went all the way round the wall a lot of it felt like being out in the country. At least, that's how I remember it.
|
Opel - November 13, 2009 09:53 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Divvey @ Nov 10 2009, 02:34 PM) |
This conversation is a luxury.
Had we grown up & lived under the control of the East I think our opinions may be different.
A fondness for their kitsch is not sufficient grounds to applaud a system that oppressed its citizenry. |
brilliant divvey.
elvischomsky - November 14, 2009 12:47 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Opel @ Nov 13 2009, 09:53 PM) |
| QUOTE (Divvey @ Nov 10 2009, 02:34 PM) | This conversation is a luxury.
Had we grown up & lived under the control of the East I think our opinions may be different.
A fondness for their kitsch is not sufficient grounds to applaud a system that oppressed its citizenry. |
brilliant divvey.
|
Quite a lot of East Germans seem to have liked it....
"'Ostalgie' – nostalgia for the GDR – has certainly not died away.
In a poll this year [June 2009], 50% of east Germans agreed with the statement, "The GDR had more good sides than bad sides." This strain of thinking is reflected in voting patterns: in the September general election, Die Linke (The 'Left' party, which grew out of the remains of the GDR's ruling SED), won 26%, more than the mainstream SPD..."
Divvey - November 14, 2009 02:17 AM (GMT)
I don't see them building a new wall.
Aubrey The Cat - November 14, 2009 09:56 AM (GMT)
The things that made East bad were the wall, The Stasi - stuff like that. The good things - full employment, good health service - shouldn't need a wall. Communists always fucked up on things like that.
(I once saw a thing about a big gay squat in East Germany. Once the wall came down, and the East became free, the squat was closed down. Freedom only goes so far.)
Divvey - November 14, 2009 11:02 AM (GMT)
I had an German girlfriend once upon a time, she grew up in the East; got out by marrying her West German cousin; she had nothing good to say about her life under the system that defined her.
She loved Kohl; saw him as a saviour.
marvell78 - November 14, 2009 12:03 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Divvey @ Nov 14 2009, 11:02 PM) |
I had an German girlfriend once upon a time, she grew up in the East; got out by marrying her West German cousin; she had nothing good to say about her life under the system that defined her.
She loved Kohl; saw him as a saviour. |
popuklarity of die linke can't be all based on rosy tinted nostalgia though?
i go to berlin quite alot and my friends there have very little good to say about kohl and his ilk(e). whe i lived there (in west berlin) myself i thought it was really dreadful in some respects and certainly west germany as a whole was pretty right wing. when i first went there it was around 1977/8 and the raf werer still in evidence. we used to have to walk past posters of them which were routinely added to/defaced by workers (a habit encouraged by the factory owner). never felt entirely comfortable there at all. as for any kind of protest, well all you have to do is look at the old footage. police were extremely heavy (not an excuse for what went on in the east but important to bear in mind all the same
Divvey - November 16, 2009 07:33 AM (GMT)
as a nurse, she knew that at any time on her shift at least one of the team was reporting up what they said with regard to the state.
and nobody seems to mention.. they, err SHOT their citizens fro attempting to escape their worker's paradise.
Now I'm no apologist for the free market, but I do think nostalgia for kistch is what drives many Westerners to look fondly at the east.
And for the Ossis"", well they have pile of new more pressing insecurities than they did. I can sympathise with that.
marvell78 - November 17, 2009 02:50 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Divvey @ Nov 16 2009, 07:33 PM) |
as a nurse, she knew that at any time on her shift at least one of the team was reporting up what they said with regard to the state.
and nobody seems to mention.. they, err SHOT their citizens fro attempting to escape their worker's paradise.
Now I'm no apologist for the free market, but I do think nostalgia for kistch is what drives many Westerners to look fondly at the east.
And for the Ossis"", well they have pile of new more pressing insecurities than they did. I can sympathise with that. |
[QUOTE]
no difficulty condemning the east and its practices
as long as the west gets it too lol
they also killed those who disagreed with them as in the raf stuff i mentioned (or in our own case here in ireland, those who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time paras 13 bogside nil...still not sorted out by the way
i think anybodywho really opposes any state realises just what a state is when they take their protest 'too far' (all relative, i know)?
(heading towards cleanville territory here but it has to be said, quite a lot of people have died here in police custody and nobody ever gets charged
but on the east/west..would anybody prefer an hour on the kudam to the east?
Ducky - November 17, 2009 03:44 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (elvischomsky @ Nov 14 2009, 12:47 AM) |
| QUOTE (Opel @ Nov 13 2009, 09:53 PM) | | QUOTE (Divvey @ Nov 10 2009, 02:34 PM) | This conversation is a luxury.
Had we grown up & lived under the control of the East I think our opinions may be different.
A fondness for their kitsch is not sufficient grounds to applaud a system that oppressed its citizenry. |
brilliant divvey.
|
Quite a lot of East Germans seem to have liked it....
|
Though I suspect the family of Lutz Eigendorf- and many others- are not amoung them.
Fritter - November 17, 2009 05:17 PM (GMT)
Apparently, the Czech Republic is suffering the same sort of "Ostalgie" amongst its young, who don't remember that their lot were even more severe than the Russian and East German govts.
Mopiranger - November 17, 2009 08:12 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (elvischomsky @ Nov 9 2009, 10:06 PM) |
The answer is "East".
Thank you. |
i apologize beforehand to everyone who lives/grew up in west berlin, but east berlin gets my vote. friendlier, more easygoing people, calmer atmosphere in bars, the art stuff isn't as "forced". that said, i've only been in berlin 5 times and i've only seen a tenth of what there is to see.
marvell78 - November 17, 2009 10:16 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Mopiranger @ Nov 18 2009, 08:12 AM) |
| QUOTE (elvischomsky @ Nov 9 2009, 10:06 PM) | The answer is "East".
Thank you. |
i apologize beforehand to everyone who lives/grew up in west berlin, but east berlin gets my vote. friendlier, more easygoing people, calmer atmosphere in bars, the art stuff isn't as "forced". that said, i've only been in berlin 5 times and i've only seen a tenth of what there is to see.
|
[QUOTE]
only 45 more trips and you are there lol
interesting that we get ostalgia
but not westalgia
yet, in political and cultural terms ireland for one has been absolutely decimated (no ohter word for it and even the people repsonsible, who, while they wont admit thier responsibility, would use this word themselves) by conservative/right wing politics
the situation in the north is still not sorted out and is beginning to take off again, slowly but surely
the eighties were a complete disaster in ireland. where i live , at one point there was 66% unemployment (including myself
prior to that, this situation was avoided thanks to heavy emigration.
prior to that we had an oppressive church run state (and i mean oppressive, the social/political abuse and the individual sexual abuse, now revealed, was systemic, way beyond anybodys imagining, with catastrophic results all round). it just goes on and on. why anybody would praise this or remember it affectionately is beyond me. we spent our time (and still do) fighting all of this
so, why does this not feature in commentaries on the former west?
Mr. Marshall - November 18, 2009 11:29 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Ducky @ Nov 17 2009, 04:44 PM) |
| QUOTE (elvischomsky @ Nov 14 2009, 12:47 AM) | | QUOTE (Opel @ Nov 13 2009, 09:53 PM) | | QUOTE (Divvey @ Nov 10 2009, 02:34 PM) | This conversation is a luxury.
Had we grown up & lived under the control of the East I think our opinions may be different.
A fondness for their kitsch is not sufficient grounds to applaud a system that oppressed its citizenry. |
brilliant divvey.
|
Quite a lot of East Germans seem to have liked it....
|
Though I suspect the family of Lutz Eigendorf- and many others- are not amoung them.
|
I think the "ostalgie" is more to do with what they've ended up with than a yearning for return.
elvischomsky - November 19, 2009 03:49 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Divvey @ Nov 16 2009, 07:33 AM) |
and nobody seems to mention.. they, err SHOT their citizens fro attempting to escape their worker's paradise.
|
And quite right, too.
The middle class parasites.
New Profile Razor Unit - November 19, 2009 11:04 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (marvell78 @ Nov 17 2009, 10:16 PM) |
| QUOTE (Mopiranger @ Nov 18 2009, 08:12 AM) | | QUOTE (elvischomsky @ Nov 9 2009, 10:06 PM) | The answer is "East".
Thank you. |
i apologize beforehand to everyone who lives/grew up in west berlin, but east berlin gets my vote. friendlier, more easygoing people, calmer atmosphere in bars, the art stuff isn't as "forced". that said, i've only been in berlin 5 times and i've only seen a tenth of what there is to see.
|
[QUOTE]
only 45 more trips and you are there lol
interesting that we get ostalgia
but not westalgia
yet, in political and cultural terms ireland for one has been absolutely decimated (no ohter word for it and even the people repsonsible, who, while they wont admit thier responsibility, would use this word themselves) by conservative/right wing politics
the situation in the north is still not sorted out and is beginning to take off again, slowly but surely
the eighties were a complete disaster in ireland. where i live , at one point there was 66% unemployment (including myself
prior to that, this situation was avoided thanks to heavy emigration.
prior to that we had an oppressive church run state (and i mean oppressive, the social/political abuse and the individual sexual abuse, now revealed, was systemic, way beyond anybodys imagining, with catastrophic results all round). it just goes on and on. why anybody would praise this or remember it affectionately is beyond me. we spent our time (and still do) fighting all of this
so, why does this not feature in commentaries on the former west?
|
Quite simply because the "Oirish" travelled the world freely waxing lyrical about the place
Maybe a better comparison should with Spain and Portugal if you are looking at changes in Western Europe. Add Greece and you get the EC Objective 1 gravy train of the 1980s.
In the early eighties I travelled to West and East Berlin. East Berlin, despite some fantastic pre communism architecture and some grand post war soviet style monuments was a grim place. West Berlin was full of an amazing spirit and one of my all time favourite memories was sitting in a restaurant whilst "The Queen is Dead" played in the background because the owner wanted to play something English for us!
marvell78 - November 20, 2009 12:52 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (New Profile Razor Unit @ Nov 20 2009, 11:04 AM) |
Quite simply because the "Oirish" travelled the world freely waxing lyrical about the place
|
[QUOTE]
lol, you're right
i wonder though if other european countries recent histories are anywhere near as bad as our own here?
we have had the benefit of tribunals, good investigative journalism and so on helping to reveal what actually went on in ireland
have other countries done this, i dont know
Simon Dermott - November 25, 2009 08:33 PM (GMT)
Three things I particularly liked about Berlin: it's very flat, the sparrows and I did not feel threatened at any point walking around at 3.00am.
Berliner Weiße was excellent, but Duesseldorfer Altbier is better.
