Well what ya think?

The Fall. Their off-the-wall stuff is level pegging in terms of cultural significance with Beefheart. But the Fall's "pop" stuff is way better than Unconditionally Guaranteed or Bluejeans And Moonbeams.

captain beefheart is not even a real captain and his 'music' is a racket. thanks for asking.

This was very difficult! I had to choose The Fall, though, for the reasons R. Totale said, plus... you don't see me on a Captain Beefheart website, now, do you? Case Closed. B)

the fall

captain beefheart is often great mind

Yikes, good question. I think both have stood the test of time and will keep doing so, but if it comes down to which will critics rave about or rant against more, or which has had the greater influence, probably Beefheart. Would bands inspired by Beefheart sound the same if there'd been no Fall? Probably. Would bands inspired by The Fall sound the same if there's been no Beefheart? Dunno. So I'd have to say Beefheart. My Fall listening still eclipses him by about 100 to 1, but I suspect Trout Mask Replica will still arouse the fiercer passion in another 40 years, while Fall fans are quietly congratulating themselves that everything decent these days sounds just like Last Orders.

Beefy. If The Fall split up tomorrow we'd have to wait another 27 years for me to be proven wrong.

I like a bit of Beefheart but I find him overated to be honest.

Of course, The Fall wouldn't sound like they do unless Mark had liked Beefheart so much, but then again Bowie's Low wouldn't have sounded the same without Kraftwerk - I still prefer Low to anything by Kraftwerk all the same.

I find The Fall's music more diverse and interesting than Beefheart's which may not mean I prefer it to listen to, but in this case I do prefer The Fall. Beefheart may have influenced people who are not influenced by The Fall but whether I would like them is another matter, as would be the case for bands influenced by The Fall.


I only ever play Trout Mask Replica if I want to get rid of guests who have overstayed their welcome. :D

I suspect that over time The Fall will be highly regarded whereas I wouldn't assume that Beefhearts will be as much as some of the old folks on here might believe.

Exactly!

Why must you force me to make such a choice? Oh the pain.

But Beefheart by a growl.

You can vote for both, I think.

I voted for The Fall, though.

Without a doubt THE hardest choice to make. My heart says The Fall, my head says Beefheart. Thier masterpieces (according to popular opinion) Trout and Hex I love equally. Bluejeans and Shiftwork... I rate above most other recorded output anyway. My childhood was ruled by The Fall, the first time I heard Cap on Peel I was transfixed...

My heart is pounding... my head is hurting... i conna choose, i just conna :cry2:












The Fall :wub:

You don't have to choose; you can vote for both.

Bugger. I only voted for one. :angry:


Though I wouldn't have voted for Beefheart. :wacko:

If the tick-boxes before you vote are squares then it's a multi-choice, if they're circles then it's single choice.

We can wait............

:lol:

(I knew you'd vote for The Cap)

Now you tell me. :rolleyes:


Though I wouldn't have voted for Beefheart. ;)

Great :) Typically I forgot to vote for either. :lol:

Both have produced great art.
But The Fall has produced more.

Lyrically, I give it to Mark without hesitation.
Musically, I give it to Don without hesitation. I mean, 11 time signatures in one song? 3 guitars playing in different times?...and then it all pulls together.
Impact: The Captain was first and was very influential...make that mega-influential; Mark: very influential.
Live shows: The Captain by a substantial margin.
Voice: Don had one of the best poprockRn'B voices of the 20th century; Mark: barely adequate.
Output: Mark by a wide margin.
Sustained quality: to me, Bluejeans & Moonbeams is the only really poor product either loosed on an generally apathetic public. The other Tragic Band opus at least had Peaches and Full Moon Hot Sun and a couple of ther pretty good tunes.
On sheer consistency of output and high grade literacy you have to go with Mark.
Smith never had a ".....Decals, Baby" but he had more than a dozen pretty outstanding albums.
Trout Mask exists outside of time and space.
I'd say Mark E Smith edges Don Vliet.
(Glad Thelonious Monk was not in this evaluation)

Captain Beefheart, of course. <_<

oops...wrong forum. :ohdear:

Now this is a tough one. I really think that The Fall will be criticised in the future for just going on for too long. The genius output has been diluted to a great degree.

Captain Beefheart
Zoot Horn Rollo
Antennae Jimmy Semens
The Mascara Snake
Rockette Morton
Richard "Midnight Hatsize" Snyder
Drumbo

Or

Mark
Tony
Una
Yvonne
Craig
and Dave The Drummer

I still pick The Fall, but they need to jolly thier names up a bit.

Ooh, there I really must take issue (and I voted Beefheart!): I agree that the Cap'n had one of the most distinctive and versatile voices around, but there's nothing "barely adquate" about MES's, at least when he still had his own teeth - the thing was a sensory assault in itself without any of the whininess or concessions to musicality that characterised so many of his purportedly spikier contemporaries. I'll never forget the first time I heard it: there was nothing else like it and it just about kicked its way into your skull. Happy days.

Well otherdave I will not argue with you and am inclined to change and support your view. I like and admire Mark Smith's voice on most of his songs but there are a few ballads that make me cringe. Don never did that unless the song was one of the horrible ones from "Moonbeams...." and it was the song not Capt
OK: I am happy to change.....Mark Smith was a bolt of New Lightning on the great majority of The Fall's output and you were right to call me on it. Thanks.
BTW, I finally got the 2 Receiver comps I didn't have and the sound is excellent and I would be happy to have them even if I had not gotten a great deal on still-sealed discs.

but... but... you forgot "The Eagle!" :lol:

I really must disagree. There's been far too much agreement on the board of late, and you were quite right. I condemn my views in the harshest possible terms. It's Saturday and there must be something to argue about. :D

Have to agree about the more ballad-y stuff, though (are we in the early 90s here?) - though he can still carry off quieter numbers (eg Channel Fuhrer, Alton Towers?) when it suits him: I think the earlier period just didn't.

It's Datura season here and my answer was psychotic and I totally and utterly disavow it.
It's to your credit as an exemplar of the best civilization has to offer that you treated my remarks as worthy of an answer instead of simply pointing out - correctly - that I was talking through the back of my neck.
Putting the above aside for a moment, I have to agree with you - and it's my pleasure - that there has not been a clinker on a slow song for a decade or more and that lyrically, Mark Smith is still setting the standard though in a terser way.
[I am pretty sure I voted for The Fall for what that's worth....not much when you consider the shallowness of my argument contra Smith's ballad style from 20 years ago]
We can argue about jazz: Should the jazzers carry on or call it a day? After all, the Vikings called it quits when they completed what they set out to do]

Should symphony orchestras call it a day? I don't understand the question, I suppose... I want more varieties of music available, not less. B)

What, no more Alton Towers? :cry2:

I thought they'd just diversified into sovereign wealth funds.

I think they should do more free jazz numbers.

I am sure the bassoonists and baritone horns would absolutely love to be given permission to let it rip and play whatever the music diety lays on their respective hearts.

Nah the Vikings were just light weights, bunch of fucking fairies :lol:

I voted both, finding out that you could do so accidentally, though I do prefer The Fall.
I can't agree - if you want disagreement - with the comments about MES's ballad singing. Because he can't do it properly, I think it sounds really touching. Not sure about the thrice line, but only really because I don't like that word (thrice, in case anyone wanted to be cute).

Voted 'The Fall'.

I disagree, I think we are in agreement. It does sound real because he hasn't the obvious voice for it and doesn't do crooning. I think thrice wasn't so much the problem as the song. But he can cover quite a range.

Don is a far, far superior vocalist to Mark, always was although up to perhaps the mid 1990's I prefered Marks style, I don't have a lot of time for great vocalists (except perhaps Janis Joplin or Billy Holiday)
Marks Vocals are now embarrassing, no question about it. They ruin the music the backing band are playing. The latest DVD at the Palais I think proves my point. why are the vocals at gigs so much better and clearer when the support band is on and goes tits up the minute Mark opens his mouth. I realise I have just risked excommunication on this forum and I have long desperately attempted to kid myself that Mark was a good as ever.....its not true is it.

I wish I could concur, but I could barely hear him (let alone make out anything he was mumbling) last couple of times I saw them. Things seem to have picked up a bit since, time will tell. But he's getting on - it comes to everbody in the end.

The best Beefheart gives me a bigger buzz but I'll only listen to 3/4 tracks at a time. It's so full of life. The Fall I can listen to all day. It impregnates the environment and it feels really close to me. I can't compare them really in spite of some similarities.

A little aside: my 4 and 7 year old boys always ask for "Cheese states!" in the car. And 'the laughing song' (over over) and systematic abuse. They mimick the vocals and they have a ball, yelling along.
I've played other albums as well for them but they don't hit the spot like RPTLC does.