View Full Version: The Fall in non-Fall books

The Fall online forum > Fall related Discussion > The Fall in non-Fall books

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 517

Title: The Fall in non-Fall books
Description: The smallest library yet?


elvischomsky - October 8, 2008 08:12 PM (GMT)
A round-up of books that contain reasonably substantial references to The Fall.

Which books have we missed?

I'm updating with any additions submitted, as we proceed.

Oh, and I've ignored bios in rock encyclopedias, discographies, A-Zs, etc, but would love to hear about any that are fantastically cliched, crap and/or clueless...

In order of publication date:

Blood and Guts In High School Plus Two - Kathy Acker (Picador, 1984)
One of the "Plus Twos" is the novella, 'My Death My Life By Pier Paolo Pasolini', in which the late Italian filmmaker solves his own murder with the help of, among others, Romeo, Juliet, and the Bronte sisters. A Burroughsian post punk, post modern pro-sex fantasy. Acker writes; "In total blackness cause there is no voodoo/ dedicated to The Fall: I want to fuck one of The Gang Of Four or The Fall." Full quotation below, page 2. Reprinted in the Acker anthology Literal Madness: Three Novels (Grove Press, 1988).

Beating Time: Riot 'n' Race 'n' Rock 'n' Roll - David Widgery (Chatto & Windus, 1986)
An illustrated history of Rock Against Racism written by one of its founders. Gives over most of a page to a poster for Northern Carnival - a free RAR concert in Manchester's Alexandra Park in July 1978. The Fall are given top billing - although they pulled out at the last minute. Robin Denselow's When The Music's Over: The Story of Political Pop (Faber and Faber, 1989) says that The Fall actually played. Oops!

Tape Delay: Confessions From the Eighties Underground - Charles Neal (SAF Publishing, 1987)
Collection of interviews/articles on mid-80s alternative acts, mainly on the Industrial/Throbbing Gristle axis. Contains interview with MES. Read it here http://www.visi.com/fall/news/000326.html#tape

Milk, Sulphate and Alby Starvation - Martin Millar (4th Estate, 1987)
Debut novel by the then culty and Punk-y author. The eponymous hero is a huge Fall fan. Plot summary; Alby discovers he's lactose-intolerant, advertises this fact, so the Milk Marketing Board take out a contract on him. "What’s allergic to milk, collects comics, sells speed, likes The Fall and lives in Brixton? Alby Starvation, the first true British anti-hero of the giro generation. A strange and wonderful story, I’ve yet to meet someone who has not enjoyed it" - NME. Note that Millar is the first of four Scottish novelists here who namecheck The Fall.

Who's Been Sleeping In My Brain?: Interviews Post Und Punk - Edited by Judith Ammann (Edition Suhrkamp, 1987)
Collection of interviews with various Post "und" Punk luminaries - presumably from a German fanzine/magazine - intermingled into one meandering bilingual English-German narrative. Includes part of an interview with MES and Kay Carroll talking about music and politics conducted in February 1983. Excerpt on page 7 below.

The Manual (How To Have A Number One The Easy Way) - The Timelords (KLF Publications 1988)
"The Justified Ancients of Mu Mu reveal their Zenarchistic method used in making the unthinkable happen." Or "This book is a day by day, step by step manual as to how anybody on the dole with no previous musical experience, can within three months of purchasing this book have a number one single in the official UK charts." The title page reads; "Text by: Lord Rock And Time Boy; AKA The Timelords; AKA Rockman Rock And Kingboy D; AKA The Justified Ancients Of Mu Mu; AKA The Jams; AKA The KLF; AKA The Fall; AKA The Forever Ancients Liberation Loophole." Later, MES called The KLF "senile morons" in Pumpkin Head Xscapes. For further KLF-Fall connections, and to have the liberation loophole explained, see page 3 below.

And God Created Manchester - Sarah Champion (Wordsmith, 1990)
A celebration of the city's music scene, written by the former Manchester Evening News music critic. Concentrates on Indie bands of the 80s; The Fall, New Order, The Smiths, The Stone Roses and Happy Mondays. Slight, with a bias to the then contemporary Madchester scene, but with many photographs.

Shots From The Hip - Charles Shaar Murray (Penguin, 1991)
"Twenty years of hip shots from the sharpest shooter in British rock journalism" - apparently. Taking us from a two-word review of The Yes Album for Oz in 1971, through those halcyon days at NME in the punkrocktastic late 70s, to a review of Madonna at Wembley Stadium in 1990 for The Daily Telegraph. Reprints CSM's lengthy review/think-piece on The Fall playing the London Lyceum in March 1979, alongside Mekons, Human League, Gang of Four and Stiff Little Fingers; http://www.visi.com/fall/gigography/79mar31.html Despite having over a decade to change it, CSM - for reasons best known to himself - still praises the bass-playing of one "Marc Lacey".

Cultural Icons: Cult Figures Who Made The Twentieth Century What It Is - Edited by James Park (Bloomsbury, 1991)
A guide to over 1,000 cult figures of our time, from Alvor Aaloto ("Finnish architect, designer") to John Zorn ("American rock musician"), via the Baader-Meinhof Gang and Pele. The music entries were written by Mark Sinker, David Quantick, and Don Watson. The Fall's entry is reprinted below on this page.

Morrissey & Marr: The Severed Alliance - Johnny Roganm (Omnibus, 1992)
Much praised biography of The Smiths. That other Manchester group and/or MES are mentioned 16 times; from young Morrissey's early championing of The Fall in fanzines, through their Rough Trade rivalry, to the Royal Albert Hall anti-apartheid gig that never happened. All citations on Page 16 below.

Songs They Never Play On The Radio: Nico the Last Bohemian - James Young (Bloomsbury, 1992)
One of my favourite music books ever. A hilarious account of James Young's years spent touring the shitholes of Europe in the 80s, with a broke, broken, barking and heroin-addicted Nico. At the time they met she was living in Manchester, and had just stopped using Blue Orchids (Martin Bramah and Una Baines group) as her backing band. Many other Fall-types appear regularly, most entertainingly John Cooper Clarke and Alan Wise (as "Dr Demetrius"). Author interview here: http://www.btinternet.com/~stephen.yarwood/JY_int.htm

The Crow Road - Iain Banks (Macmillan, 1992)
A coming-of-age novel starring Glaswegian teenager, Prentice McCohan; a lad preoccupied with death, sex, drink, God and illegal substances, and who's trying to understand his rather unusual family. Cites The Fall, not once, but twice - see below, page 2. Also has the brilliantly Fall-like opening sentence; "It was the day my grandmother exploded."

In Session Tonight: Complete Radio 1 Recordings by Ken Garner and John Peel (BBC Books, 1993)
The history and the highlights of the music recorded especially for BBC Radio 1 between 1967 and 1992, in celebration of the station's 25th anniversary. Detailed listings of every Peel Session recorded up until 1992; including, of course, the first 15 by The Fall. The book came with a free Peel Sessions CD, featuring "Kimble" as the closing track.

Trainspotting - Irvine Welsh (Secker & Warburg, 1993)
Heroin fun in Greenock, Scotland. The Fall are Irvine Welsh's favourite band. He manages to sneek in a few mentions of the group. "He [Sick Boy] settled for a Fall t-shirt which at least had the virtue of being white and would show off his Corsican tan to its best effect..." "The train journey up wis uneventful; jist the wey ah wanted it. Some Fall tapes oan the Walkman, four cans ay lager n ma H. P. Lovecraft book. Nazi cunt, auld H. P. but he kin spin a good yarn..." Now a major motion picture.

Something Beginning With O - Kevin Pearce (Heavenly, 1993)
Heavenly Records' first publishing venture, was written by The Same Sky fanzine writer Kevin Pearce. This short, impassioned book is really an extended essay about British Modernism; the music, the fashions and the passions from the late 60s to the early 80s; from Mods, through Northern Soul, to post Punk. Ends with essays on Paul Weller, Vic Godard and Kevin Rowland - the book's real hero. Chapter five is an around 1,200 word eulogy to The Fall and MES; "The Fall were at their best when doing the unexpected: suddenly becoming glamorous, putting on a play, starting a fan club, recording '60s covers, participating in ballet." Chapter 5 is reprinted in full on this page; http://www.visi.com/fall/news/980907.html

Viz: The Porky Chopper: A Meaty Selection of Prime, Beefy, Lean Comic Cuts from Viz Issues 48 to 52, with Stuffing and Sausages - Edited by Chris Donald (John Brown, 1993)
The book is "dedicated to Mark E Smith out of The Fall, who during an interview in 1986, became the first man in history to point out that Viz was no longer as funny as it used to be." In 1993, the year this annual was published, MES had reignited the one-sided feud by singing of his contempt for people who read Viz comic in "Glam Racket". Note to foreign readers; Viz is an adult comic full of fart and knob gags. http://www.viz.co.uk/

Head-On: Memories of the Liverpool Punk Scene and the Story of The Teardrop Explodes (1976-82) - Julian Cope (Head Heritage, 1994)
The subtitle sums it up pretty well. In the short chapter, "Legends of The Fall", Cope describes several encounters with MES, who he idolised and later befriended. Excerpts below on this very page.

Cult Rockers - Wayne Jancik and Tad Lathrop (Simon & Schuster, 1995)
"150 of the most controversial, distinctive, offbeat, intriguing, outrageous and championed rock musicians of all time", from American Music Club to The Zombies. Written by two Billboard journalists. Contains three pages on The Fall.

Big Mouth Strikes Again: The NME Book of Quotes - Compiled by Terry Staunton (BPC Paperbacks, 1995)
A collection of outrageous, amusing, cutting and daft quotes culled from interviews published in the NME between 1983 and 1995, and given away free with the issue dated February 4th 1995. At a guesstimate, MES appears to have been the magazine's most quotable interviewee; he crops up 14 times in the sections on drink, drugs, fame, music, politics, religion, rivals and style. His now apposite last line in here; "I look a damn sight better than I did at 22. I used to look like a piece of shit, I used to look about 51!"

Lee & Herring's Fist Of Fun - Stewart Lee & Richard Herring (BBC Books, 1995)
Blurb: "Linked to the BBC2 television series of the same name, this book consists of zany ideas for 'things to do." Fall fans may also remember the Sunday morning hangover student fun fest's predecessor 'This Morning With Richard Not Judy', for its regular guest, Curious Orange, an orange who was quite literally curious. Stewart Lee, arguably now the world's second-best known living Fall fan, manages to get in a few hundred words about said Salford combo. See page 6 below.

Bad Seed: The Biography of Nick Cave - Ian Johnston (Abacus, 1996)
Contains another account of the Shane MacGowan, Nick Cave and MES drink-fuelled NME summit, and Cave recalling hos MES once told him he liked his saxaphone playing.

From Joy Division to New Order: The Factory Story - Mick Middles (Virgin Books, 1996)
Particularly strong on late 70s Manchester, The Fall crop up regularly throughout the story, get slagged off by The Drones, grapple with hecklers at the Electric Circus, etc. Middles is also the author of a Fall/MES biography, a long-time acquaintance of MES, and allegedly can be heard shouting on Sparta FC.

Time Travel: Pop, Media and Sexuality 1976-96 - Jon Savage (Chatto & Windus, 1996)
Jon Savage's greatest journalistic hits travels from The Sex Pistols to Nirvana. 'Power Cut at the Electric Circus' is a lengthy account of the last night of the legendary Manchester club/venue in October 1977. Jon walks out for a breather during The Fall's set ("Maybe it's my energy lag, but The Fall don't move me...") The full review is on the bibliography page on this site. The Fall appear only in passing in Savage's much praised England's Dreaming: Sex Pistols and Punk Rock (Faber and Faber, 1991) - the discography lists Bingo Master's, It's the New Thing, Rowche Rumble and LATWT. Savage doesn't seem to care much for The Fall, but he does call them "the UK's premier indie group."

Leigh Bowery: The Life And Times Of An Icon - Sue Tilley (Sceptre, 1997)
Biography of the late walking work of art - and star of the Mr Pharmacist and Cruiser's Creek videos - by a close friend. Includes a brief account of Leigh and Michael Clark's work on Hey! Luciani - which Tilley calls Hey Luciano throughout. Best line; "The play was not a great success and the performers got a bit bored."

England Is Mine: Pop Life In Albion from Wilde to Goldie - Michael Bracewell (HarperCollins, 1997)
Pretentious exploration of "Englishness" and the celebration of the alienated outsider in popular culture, but mainly in music. The Fall get a section to themselves. Bracewell - chair of the infamous ICA MES debacle - can be a very smart commentator, but this is by and large guff.
See for yourself here: http://www.visi.com/fall/news/980517.html#bracewell

The Accidental Evolution of Rock 'n' Roll: A Misguided Tour Through Popular Music - Chuck Eddy (Da Capo, 1997)
Highly idiosyncratic book arguing that rock music goes downhill the moment it aspires to "art". The chapter entitled; "Repetition, Repetition, Repetition, Repetition, Repetition, Repetition" tackles The Fall ("Lots of Fall stuff is the raw gnaw of discontent, the loather's leap into something infallible..."), amongst others.

The Secret History Of Rock: The Most Influential Bands You've Never Heard Of - Roni Sarig
(Watson-Guptill Publications, 1998)
Anyone here heard of this Fall band? No, me neither. Includes four pages on The Fall, plus a discography.

Manchester, England: The Story of the Pop Cult City - Dave Haslam (4th Estate, 1999)
History of Manchester told through its music; from music hall to, erm, Oasis. Part social history, part memoir, by the former Hacienda DJ. Most of the Fall stuff crops up in Chapter 5; 'Punk, Post-Punk and the Punk Postman'. The punk postman being John The Postman, of course. MES attended the launch of this book, where he and other local dignitaries feasted on fish, chips and mushy peas at The Rover's Return.

Rock: 100 Essential CDs - The Rough Guide - Al Spicer (Rough Guides, 1999)
"The boppiest, brainiest, scariest, dumbest, loudest, most sincere, most skilfully executed, most sloppily performed recordings by the glammest, saddest, quietest and noisiest performers of the last three decades." Grotesque (After The Gramme) snuggles up alongside Pet Sounds, Exile On Main Street, London Calling, Remain In Light and Daydream Nation. Read the Grotesque entry here: http://www.visi.com/fall/news/991101.html#rough

Punk Rock: So What? The Cultural Legacy of Punk - Edited by Roger Sabin (Routledge, 1999)
Collection of academic essays. One, "I'm So Bored With the USA" by George McKay, approvingly quotes a chunk of "C'n'C-S Mithering", using it to to illustrate a point about "the gap between British punk practice and an American critical reading of Punk." Err, quite.

All Hail The New Puritans - Edited by Nicholas Blincoe and Matt Thorne (4th Estate, 2000)
An anthology of short stories that launched probably the only literary movement in history that took its name from a Fall song; The New Puritans. Few reviewers understood what The New Puritans actually stood for, or if there was any other connection to MES; bar a declared iconoclasm and hatred of arty-fartiness. Contributors included Geoff Dyer, Alex Garland, and Toby Litt.

All-Time Top 1000 Albums - Colin Larkin (Virgin Books, 2000)
This countdown claims to have been compiled from the results of over 200,000 votes from fans, "experts" and critics. This Nation's Saving Grace is in with a bullet at number 346. Shiftwork is also in with a bullet, but at 577. Both get the obligatory 100 word functional "review". This book has appeared in several other editions often with slightly different titles.

A Whore Just Like The Rest: The Music Writings of Richard Meltzer - Richard Meltzer (Da Capo, 2000)
A collection of the best writing from the 30 year career of the acerbic, Gonzo-esque US rock hack, perhaps better known as the man who introduced the faux umlaut into rock and pretentiousness into Punk. Meltzer is a Fall fan and - in the early 80s - was "something like friends" with MES. He muses on both of these briefly - full quotes below on page 8. MES has approvingly cited Meltzer's writing in an NME 'Portrait of the artist as a consumer' questionnaire.

Alabama Wildman - Thurston Moore (Water Row Press, 2000)
A collection of words without music from the Sonic Youth bloke. The poem '1985' is a litany of records that Moore loves from the year of the same name. TNSG is in there, alongside the Meat Puppets, Jesus & Mary Chain, and Big Black. Poem in full below on page 4.

Punk - Steven Colegrave and Chris Sullivan (Cassell Illustrated, 2001)
At last, Punk finally got the coffee table book it deserved... Page 323 is essentially a big live photo of MES from around 1978, with a blown-up quote underneath from Chris Sullivan; "The Fall? Sorry, don't get it. But maybe I'm stupid... or just honest." This is followed by a few more quotes about The Fall from Christos Yanni, Stephen Colegrave, Bill Dunn, Steve Severin, and MES himself. For more see page 11 below.

Smile, You're Travelling - Henry Rollins (2.13.61, 2001)
Third installment in Rollins' Black Coffee Blues series of tour diaries. Writes about seeing (and later missing seeing) The Fall play live and MES "being mean to a bunch of Fall fans..."

A Drink With Shane MacGowan - Victoria Mary Clarke & Shane MacGowan (Pan, 2001)
A surprisingly lucid, erudite and coherent MacGowan in conversation with the missus about his life as a professional Paddy, English public school boy, Punk face, Pogue and drinker. Page 303 has him reminiscing about the "NME Super Summit" with Nick Cave and MES - and contains a really nasty and potentially libelous comment about MES. "I loved [Cave's] music anyway and the fact that he lived up to his music be being really cool and I didn't like Mark E Smith's music and he lived down to his music by being an arsehole." Charming!

Pies and Prejudice: In Search of the North - Stuart Maconie (Ebury Press, 2001)
Slightly disappointing follow-up to Cider With Roadies - a mediation on the North and "Northerness" from the former NME scribe and number one Fall fan. There are a few appearances by MES and The Fall - "one of Britain's most subversive, unique and influential bands" - most notably in the book's conclusion; "I've tried not to bang on about Mark E Smith of The Fall but if we do secede he will be on the banknotes, the proud but self-satirising laureate of 'the northern white crap that talks back', as he once said. One of his finest songs is 'THE NIRA' [sic - oops!] - The North Will Rise Again. But if he were writing that great baleful, bilious anthem of dissent and defiance again, it would be the 'The NIRA'. The North Is Rising Again. I know. I was there to see it..."

The Nineties: When Surface Was Depth - Michael Bracewll (Flamingo, 2002)
Borewell's piss-poor scissors-and-paste rejigging of some of his journalism. There are six or so words about "north Manchester punk iconoclasts The Fall", where Borewell makes a point - tenuously and badly as per - about "the gentrification of the avant garde [and] its appropriation of the iconography, the baggage, of mid-century Beat, Pop and Punk outsiderdom". ie Michael Clark has danced to The Fall.

Pan - Camden Joy and Colin B Morton (Highwater Books, 2002)
A circadian novella! "A work of imagination endeavoring to recount the extraordinary events occurring within the city of New York upon April the Seventh Nineteen-hundred and ninety-eight..." From the FO review: "The story takes place on April 7, 1998, the night of the infamous Brownies gig in New York City. It introduces us to a bunch of strange characters who all wind up at the gig - some are Fall obsessives, some are taggers-on, three are visitors from another QST (an alternate reality where Trout Mask Replica is the highest selling record ever released) who are on a quest for the head of Pan." Full FO review here http://www.visi.com/fall/news/020213.html#pan Camden Joy is the author of The Last Rock Star Book. Colin B Morton was formerly Carlton B Morgan, the 80s NME and Great Pop Things cartoonist. Rare as hens' teeth; apparently few copies entered circulation as the publishers went bankrupt, and most were pulped. Further review below on this page.

24-Hour Party People: What the Sleeve Notes Never Tell You - Tony Wilson (Channel 4 Books, 2002)
A "novelisation" of Frank Cottrell Boyce's screenplay of the film of the same name - about one Anthony H Wilson; Factory Records and Hacienda supremo - written by Tony Wilson. Essentially Wilson's recollections about being at the heart of Manchester's music scene, from ye olden punk rock days on. Wilson writes about himself in the third person, and tries to correct some of the "artistic licences" that were taken with his life story in the film. Some quotes below on this page. Mark E Smith plays himself.

A Massive Swelling: Celebrity Reexamined as a Grotesque, Crippling Disease and Other Cultural Revelations - Cintra Wilson (Viking, Allen Lane, 2002)
A collection of acerbic essays on fame. The chapter "The Shipwrecks of Rock" has a few paragraphs about MES ("another important cultural disaster...") and specifically the infamous NYC punch-up. Extract in full, see below page 6.

The Twentieth-century Performance Reader - Edited by Michael Huxley & Noel Witts (Routledge, 2002).
A collection of post modern "texts". "On Performance Writing" by Tim Etchells wibbles on bafflingly for a bit about MES and the sleevenotes to Totale's Turns.

I Was Elvis Presley's Bastard Love-Child: & Other Stories of Rock'n'Roll Excess - Andrew Darlington (Headpress, 2002)
Series of recollections by a veteran music journalist. Includes a chapter, The Man Whose Head Expanded, on meeting MES and Brix in 1987. You can read most of the book here; http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=UQtyBSE...e7X4w#PPA165,M1

This Is Uncool: The 500 Greatest Singles Since Punk and Disco - Garry Mulholland (Cassell, 2002)
Mulholland chooses "Totally Wired" and "Rowche Rumble" by the "Manchester marvels", and writes a few hundred unilluminating words on each. There's also a lifesize photo of the RR sleeve, if you were wondering what it looks like.

The Most Exciting Experiment In The World - Timekode (Artificial, 2002 - published online only?)
An account of an experiment in "cloning human voices", mainly those of Rod Stewart, Ben Elton and MES, by an American woman - otherwise known as Deni. The project was endorsed by MES, and resulted in the recording of a track, Cheap Space Code, performed by the machine The MK E UNIT. Don't believe me? Read the book online here (MES starts on page 43, numbered 48 on the pdf); http://homepage.ntlworld.com/nathan.cooke/experiment1.pdf PM me if you're interested in hearing the track.

Shake Rattle and Rain: Popular Music Making in Manchester 1955-1995 - CP Lee (Hardinge Simpole, 2002)
"Combining oral history and personal observation, this book provides an invaluable insight into what has made Manchester such an innovative, creative, musical centre over the last five decades - from Beat Clubs to the Haçienda, from Music Force to Factory Records, the Summer of Love and beyond." Nice cover image - a doctored map of central Manchester, The Fall get a street named after them. CP Lee is a lecturer in Cultural Studies in the School of Media, Music and Performance at the University of Salford. Before that he was a founder member of Mancunian Rock iconoclasts Alberto Y Lost Trios Paranoias.

Mortification: Writers' Stories of their Public Shame - Edited by Robin Robertson (Fourth Estate, 2003)
Included in this subtitularly accurate anthology is Michael Bracewell's account of his infamously painful "discussion" with MES at the ICA in 1994. Also includes essays by Irvine Welsh and Simon Armitage. MES-related review extract on Page 7 below.

The Falls - Ian Rankin (St Martin's Press, 2003)
The twelfth in the highly-acclaimed Scottish writer's Inspector Rebus series of detective novels. "When a student vanishes in Edinburgh, there is pressure on Rebus to find her, particularly as she is the scion of a family of extremely rich bankers. Needless to say, this is more than just the case of a spoilt rich girl breaking out of the cage of family responsibilities, and a carved wooden doll in a coffin found in her home village leads Rebus to the Internet role-playing game that she was involved in." Rebus finally cracks The Fall/MES connection that gives the book its title on page 408. "'So,’ Rebus went on, 'We have The Fall and 'The Fall'. Add one to the other and what do you get...'" Rebus says he saw the group; "About twenty years ago. A club in Abbeyhill." Kenny replies; "Real noise merchants, eh?"

The Last Party: Britpop, Blair and the Demise of English Rock - John Harris (4th Estate, 2003)
The Fall keep cropping up, mainly as an example of the Indie ideal that Britpop killed off. The book also starts with Justine Frischmann and Brett Anderson as young student lovers canoodling to The Fall, and ends with Elastica Mark II, recording with MES and Dave Bush (This is meant to show how things all went rather tits-up for the Britpop generation).

The Joke - Luz (Editions Les Requins Marteaux, 2003)
66 page French-language cartoon book, starring MES. A series of short illustrated stories, eulogies and fantasies about The Fall and MES by Luz (Renald Luzier) - a satirical cartoonist whose work appears in Les Inrockuptibles and Charlie Hebdo. He had previously produced a 7 page cartoon, 'The Fall, In Concert', about travelling to London to see The Fall play Kentish Town Forum, which was published in Hit Record magazine in 2002. The Joke is available from Amazon.fr here http://www.amazon.fr/Joke-Luz/dp/2909590836 Cartoons below on this page.

Punk Rock Aerobics: 75 Killer Moves, 50 Punk Classics, and 25 Reasons to Get Off Your Ass and Exercise - Hilken Mancini (Da Capo, 2003)
Four top Punk Rock tracks recommended for 'The PRA Workout' are Repetition, Psycho Mafia, Look Know and LA. Enjoy!

Anarchy In The UK - The Stories Behind The Anthems Of Punk - Steven Wells (Carlton Books, 2004)
Notorious loud and left-wing ex-NME journalist "examines the songs that encapsulated punks' message of dissatisfaction, anger, and integrity". Swells tells the story behind "Rowche Rumble". Actually, it's more of a general rant and rave about the Song and The Fall, really; "The Fall were great. They were working class but as arty as hell. Led by a pinched-faced Manchester misanthrope called Mark E Smith who moaned more than he sang…" Tells ye olden tale of a young MES accidentally massively over-ordering a consignment of Valium at the docks. Published in the US as Punk: Young, Loud & Snotty - The Stories Behind The Songs by Thunder's Mouth Press, 2004.

Footnote* - Boff Whalley (Pomona Press, 2004)
Autobiography of the Chumbawamba guitarist - and Fall fan. Said "northern working class but belligerently obscure and clever" group inspire Boff to join his first band, wangle an interview with MES, and later start a certain world-eating anarchopunk/pop combo. "Footnote is Chumbawamba member Boff Whalley's story of growing up amidst the redbrick cliches of small-town Lancashire, reconciling Mormonism and punk rock, industrial courtesy and political insurrection. Then he finds a guitar, anarchism and art terrorism, and after years of earnest, determined slogging, his band makes it really really big." Most relevant quotes printed on page 6 below.

The Festive Fifty - Mark Whitby (Nevin Publishing, 2004)
History, rundowns, facts and cross-references ahoy in this limited print-run (self-published?) book about John Peel's listeners' annual best-of charts from 1976 to 2003. The Fall broke many records on it, of course. 200 A4 pages, its research was praised by FOFers. More here; http://invisionfree.com/forums/thefall/ind...?showtopic=6445

Cider with Roadies: From School Bus to Tour Bus Without Ever Growing Up - Stuart Maconie (Ebury Press, 2004)
Heavily soundtracked and very funny autobiography of the former NME journalist - a book much praised on FOF. From growing up in Wigan and falling in love with Northern Soul and later Punk, to getting to hang around with odd Indie musicians in the 80s. Chapter 22, 'I Am Kurious, Oranj', is mainly about a trip to the Edinburgh Festival to review said ballet and interview MES for the NME. The man's a fan and the bit from the last paragraph on page 234 til the penultimate one on page 235 is one of the finest short overviews of The Fall ever written. Maconie says he could fill a book with anecdotes about the man. Some wish he would. Ironically, Maconie now presents a BBC Radio 2 show with Mark Radcliffe, and thus is the new Marc Riley. Excerpt below on this page, see also pages 12 and 13 below..

Greatest Album Covers of All Time - Miles and Grant Scott (Collins & Brown, 2005)
Hex Enduction Hour makes the list of the greatest 250 - which has many other choices which are far from the usual suspects. Excerpt; "As with the artwork of [The] Smiths' releases this is a cover that comes at you from every angle with no consideration for conventional structure. It makes no sense, covered with abstract handwritten thoughts in cheap ink and commands heavily scratched and stated like a doodle by a deranged dictator..." Miles is not the Step Forward Miles.

Rip It Up And Start Again: Postpunk 1978-1984 - Simon Reynolds (Faber and Faber, 2005)
A thought-provoking and passionate big fat book. Has a chapter intertwining the stories of The Fall and Joy Division. Reynolds has said that the bands of the Post Punk period "with the most lasting significance" are PiL, Throbbing Gristle, Gang of Four, The Fall and Joy Division. Simon's blog http://ripitupandstartagainbysimonreynolds.blogspot.com/ contains additional notes on the chapter and The Fall. A companion CD was released by V2, and compiled by Reynolds - 'Fiery Jack' is perhaps tellingly the first track. Accompanying Observer magazine article by Reynolds here http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2005/apr/24/popandrock5

Margrave of The Marshes - John Peel and Sheila Ravenscroft (Bantam Press, 2005)
Autobiography of the legendary DJ and broadcaster, who was also famed for his deep love of The Fall. Peel died in 2004, when he was halfway through writing this - and, in the book, has not yet become a DJ. It was completed by his wife, Sheila, in accordance with a synopsis he had left, using diary entries and his published writing. The Observer called the second-half; "the closest thing to a 200-page love letter that we may read this year." Lots of very sweet memories by Sheila about how much Peel loved The Fall, and the respectful distance the two great men kept from each other - some quoted on page 6 below this. See also the biographies: John Peel: A Life In Music by Michael Heatley (Michael O'Mara Books, 2004); and John Peel: A Tribute To The Legendary DJ and Broadcaster by Mick Wall (Orion, 2004) - both were rushed out soon after his death.

I Swear I Was There: The Gig That Changed the World - David Young (Independent Music Press, 2006)
An account of the Sex Pistols first Manchester gig, at the Lesser Free Trade Hall on June 4th 1976, and its aftermath. The 35-70 or so alleged audience members included Peter Hook, Bernard Sumner, Tony Wilson (disputed), Mick Hucknall (ditto), Morrissey, Howard Devoto, Pete Shelley, and MES. A spin-off book from the TV documentary. Several quotes from MES' interview for the programme appear in the book; "I remember thinking we could do better than that..."

Rough Trade: Labels Unlimited - Rob Young (Black Dog Publishing, 2006)
A history of the record shop and pioneering independent label; from the shop's humble beginnings in 1976 through the label's resurrection in 2000. Written by The Wire contributor. Rough Trade Records was The Fall's home between Totale's Turns and Slates, and then after a brief hiatus, between The Man Whose Head Expanded and Perverted By Language. But you probably knew that. MES famously hated the label, and its founder Geoff Travis, saying they were all just a bunch of hippies. Tellingly, the final split came when the label's best-known act, The Smiths, began to break big in late 1983. Geoff Travis; "I don't think Mark E Smith liked the idea that anybody could have anything to say about anything he did..." The Fall stuff is mainly in the chapter '1980-82 Credit In The Straight World'. "'You have to run a benign dictatorship,' says Travis, 'same as a group.'" Link to excerpt on Page 17 below.

Punk Rock: An Oral History - John Robb (Ebury Press, 2006)
Has about 6 namedrops for The Fall. Hooray! Henry Rollins saying he loves them and has everything they've ever released. He met MES and, luckily he says, he was nice to him. He apparently said, "Hello, Henry." John Lydon says he likes some of their records but, and I quote, "There's too much of it", "there's too much repetition", "it's all basically the same song", "it's a good song, but they should get a new one." Poor John.

Perverted By Language: Fiction Inspired by The Fall - Edited by Peter Wild (Serpent's Tail, 2007)
23 short stories each taking their name/inspiration/starting point from a Fall song title. In July 2007, The Fall played a gig at The Ritz in Manchester to support the book's launch, with reading of extracts as "the support act", as part of the Manchester International Festival. Before they came on, Alan Wise came onstage and said MES did not endorse the book, and that he thought it was "self-indulgent twaddle". Later, MES tore up a copy of the book onstage. Editor Peter Wild interviewed about the book and The Fall http://www.bbc.co.uk/manchester/content/ar...d_feature.shtml

The Peel Sessions: A Story of Teenage Dreams and One Man's Love of New Music - Ken Garner (BBC Books, 2007)
The history and complete details of more than 4,000 Sessions - including all 24 by The Fall - plus anecdotes from some who recorded them. Garner recycles much of the data from 'In Session Tonight' (See above). The Fall's 13/03/2003 session (Theme From Sparta FC, Contraflow, Groovin' With Mr Bloe/Green Eyed Loco Man, Mere Pseud Mag. Ed.) gets its own sidebar as a 'Classic Session' on page 178 (see below). According to Amazon, customers who buy this book most regularly buy it with Renegade.

The Cramps: A Short History of Rock N Roll Psychosis - Dick Porter (Plexus, 2007)
A short pictorial biography of the graveyard rockers. The Fall crop up a few times - mainly because of the links with Miles Copeland and the Faulty Products tour. Pages 78 and 79 draw parallels between the two groups; the influence of 60s garage punk, how they both got lumped in with punk rock but didn't really fit in there, and how they both managed to be "cult" bands for three decades - and Lux says he always admired MES's "curmudgeonly style". MES also once told Lux he "should drop all that theatrical KISS shit." He didn't.

Rock Star Babylon: Jaw-dropping Tales of Debauchery and Strange Behaviour - Jon Holmes (Penguin, 2008)
Potted histories of various rock stars at their very naughtiest. MES gets a mini-chapter 'Fall From Grace' (Geddit?) - a cut and paste of interview disasters, starting with MES on Newsnight talking about the recently late John Peel; "With his tongue lolling in and out like a lizard with Downs Syndrome...”

Gig: The Life and Times of a Rock Star Fantasist - Simon Armitage (Viking-Penguin, 2008)
A meditation and memoir by the poet and Fall-obsessive centred around why he often wishes he'd been a rock star, rather than a boring old poet. But it's really about Armitage's love of music: The Fall pop up endlessly - usually in reminisces about gigs, or first hearing certain records - and there are many fond recollections of other bands who emerged during the Post-Punk and 80s Indie scene. Great chapter - "The Fall, Huddersfield University" - which ends with Armitage describing how he somehow managed to miss The Fall's 30th anniversary concert at Manchester's New Century Hall, and ended up going bird watching instead.

The Olivetti Chronicles: Three Decades of Life and Music - John Peel (Bantam Press, 2008)
A Collection of John Peel's best journalism from Disc, Sounds, the Listener, Punch, The Observer, the Independent, Bike, and Radio Times, as chosen by his family. Contains several passing references to the "near perfect" group and a live review of The Fall at the Waterpop Festival in the Netherlands in 1986. See page 5 below.

The Guardian Book of Rock and Roll - Edited by Michael Hann (Aurum Press, 2008)
A sort of 'Greatest Hits' of music features from The Guardian and Guardian Guide over the last five years or so, plus some amusingly dated archive stuff "from our special correspondent". Contains 'Excuse me, weren't you in The Fall?" - the Dave Simpson article that was the spur to him writing The Fallen; http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2006/jan/05/popandrock. The Fall are also mentioned extremely briefly in Dave Haslam's "A tale of two DJs'. See page 10 below.

Frank Skinner on the Road: Love, Stand-up and the Queen of the Night - Frank Skinner (Century, 2008)
Follow-up/cash-in to the comic's surprise bestseller autobiography. He mentions that David Baddiel warned him not to say he liked The Fall in interviews to avoid looking like "a cunt". He also writes that his girlfriend sometimes goes to gigs without him and phones him when The Fall play a new song so he can listen to it down the phoneline. Bless.

Totally Wired: Postpunk Interviews & Overviews - Simon Reynolds (Faber & Faber, 2009)
A companion book to Rip It Up And Start Again - by one of our most illuminating and erudite music journalists. 32 new interviews with the scene's key players, from David Byrne to Edwyn Collins, plus overviews of the likes of Joy Division and PiL. Contains an extensive interview with Martin Bramah, as well as short ones with Una Baines and Tony Friel. Nothing new from MES, though - see Quietus interview with Reynolds on page 7 below.

An Alternative Derby - Johnny Vincent (Self-published, 2009)
A journey through the Derby music scene from 1976 to about 2000 and "the joys of being on the dole, trying to form a band and trying to escape the hang man's noose of retail". This book has interviews with many of the people on the punk scene and looks at many of the venues that the bands played in. Includes a very funny account of The Fall playing The Vic in December 1999. Available from here http://www.lulu.com/content/4407100.

The North Will Rise Again: Manchester Music City 1976-1996 - John Robb (Aurum Press, 2009)
An oral history of the Manchester music scene from Punk through Madchester to Britpop. That nice John Robb has interviewed most of the leading players; including Morrissey, Ian Brown, Noel Gallagher, the late Tony Wilson, Shaun Ryder and, but of course, one Mark E Smith. John talks about the book here http://www.rocksbackpagesblogs.com/?p=900

The England's Dreaming Tapes - Jon Savage (Faber & Faber, 2009)
A whopping 750 pages long and unofficially subtitled; 'Interviews, outtakes and extras - the essential companion to England's Dreaming', the seminal history of Punk.' This is essentially the transcripts to interviews with 60 key players on the Punk scene conducted by Savage for England's Dreaming: Sex Pistols and Punk Rock (see above). The Fall get five mentions - sadly, all are only in passing; including in the interviews with Richard Boon, Howard Devoto, Pauline Murray and Mark Perry, but you don't really find out anything about the group except that they came from Manchester.

Death to Trad Rock: The Post-Punk Scene 1982-87 - John Robb (Cherry Red Books, 2009)
That nice John Robb delivers a whopping 600 page account of the 80s Indie scene AKA "The scene with no name" AKA Shambling AKA C86. "In the 1980s, the charts overflowed with what felt to many like the most boring pop music ever made - and the underground exploded. The post-punk scene was a diverse collection of bands brought together by independent releases and aided by reportage in fanzines and airplay by John Peel. This is the first time this era of music has been analysed in such depth, exploring the loose confederation of noisenik outfits including Three Johns, The Membranes, The Ex, Wedding Present, A Witness, Bogshed and Big Flame." The Fall were but of course a big inspiration for many of these acts, and crop up here with a pleasing regularity. Marc Riley With The Creepers get half-a-dozen pages.

A Great Face For Radio: The Adventures of a Global Sports Commentator - John Anderson (Know The Score Books, 2009)
John Anderson is "The Very Sports Reporter" - ie that's his FOF name. He is also a very famous sports reporter, as seen on Sky Sports. As a regular FOFer he gets to plug his own book; "The humorous memoir 'A Great Face For Radio' written by John Anderson who is a very famous sports reporter carries references to The Fall on pages 21, 34, 100, 140 and 162." Thank you, TVSR. Buy three copies here http://www.amazon.co.uk/Great-Face-Radio-A...r/dp/1848184034

Tony Wilson: You're Entitled To An Opinion - David Nolan (John Blake Publishing, 2009)
The first biography of the man no-one really called "Mr Manchester". The Fall are only mentioned in passing, as being a live draw at the Hacienda, appearing on Wilson's late night TV debacle The Other Side of Midnight, and MES getting a (cut) cameo in 24 Hour Party People.

Manchester: Looking for the Light through the Pouring Rain - Kevin Cummins (Faber & Faber, 2009)
250 mainly "moody" black and white photos of Manchester's musical finest taken over 30 years by the top NME snapper; Joy Division, The Fall, Buzzcocks, New Order, The Smiths, the Hacienda, Happy Mondays, Stone Roses, Oasis. Paul Morley, Stuart Maconie, Gavin Martin and John Harris provide the words. As well as a few Fall photos, there is a mini-interview with MES, printed without punctuation to make it seem like a mad rant.

The Hacienda: How Not To Run a Club - Peter Hook (Simon & Schuster , 2009)
A disaster-filled, catty and chatty account of "the world's most famous nightclub" by the second-best bassist ever to have come out of Manchester. Apparently many possible libels were excised prior to publication(Boo!), but it's pretty entertaining nonetheless. MES appears not once, but three times; "I like the Fall. Always have, and they played the club loads of times. I think Mark E.Smith is a twat, though. A right obnoxious bastard. And he's proud of it..." Mind you, they're still "great mates" though...

The Wire Primers: Adventures in Modern Music - Edited by Rob Young (Verso, 2009)
A collection of lengthy essays taken from the cerebral/pretentious leftfield/unlistenable music magazine's Primer series; "a potted guide to the works of significant artists, groups or umbrella genres - alongside three new unpublished essays, readers are treated to demystifying chapters on key genres and movements, including musique concrète, turntablism, Noise and dubstep." Edited by Rob Young, author of Rough Trade: Labels Unlimited (see above). The book includes Stewart Lee's excellent intro/overview of The Fall, which was published in the April 2006 issue; http://www.stewartlee.co.uk/press/writtenf...all-thewire.htm MES's face also figures on Savage Pencil's front cover illustration. Significant others include Captain Beefheart, Fela Kuti, Sun Ra, James Brown and John Cage. For a full list of chapters and authors, see page 16 on here below.

Bad Vibes: Britpop and My Part in its Downfall - Luke Haines (William Heinemann, 2009)
The hilarious, acerbic and embittered memoirs of The Auteurs' Post-Nearly Man and "Southern Mark Smith". MES was a big influence on the young Luke Haines. He joined the Servants because "[David] Westlake and I hit it off, and we're into the same stuff: the Modern Lovers, Dragnet and Totales Turns by the Fall. The Only Ones' first album. Adventure by Television. Wire and the Go-Betweens." He even tried to become a speed freak because of MES; "If it was the preferred narcotic of Lou Reed and Mark Smith then it was good enough for me."

Hail! Hail! Rock 'n' Roll: The Ultimate Guide to the Music, the Myths and the Madness - John Harris (Sphere, 2009)
Entertaining, offbeat and Christmas stocking-sized book of music trivia from the one-time editor of Select. MES and The Fall pop up several times, mainly in a "What a crazy guy!" kinda way. Ho-hum.

AND NOT FORGETTING...................................................

Two book chapters written by MES:

Idle Worship: How Pop Empowers the Weak, Rewards the Faithful and Succours the Needy - Edited by Chris Roberts (HarperCollins, 1994)
An entertaining collection of off-beat essays by musicians and music writers on their own fandom. MES contributes "Musical Influence in Great Britain on Big-Head Here". "A sardonic play of sorts by Mark E. Smith of the Fall that lashes out at the bands Therapy? and Soundgarden" - New York Times. Other contributors include; Bono, Nick Hornby, Stephen Malkmus and Thurston Moore. "The only dud is a diary cut-up from Mark E. Smith of the Fall..." - Robert Christgau, Village Voice. I really liked it - and it's an essay on music, not a play. It's reproduced on Page 8 below.

The City Life Book Of Manchester Short Stories - Edited by Ra Page (Penguin, 1999)
MES contributes "No Place Like It". Read it here: http://www.visi.com/fall/news/pics/npli.html Other contributors include; Michael Bracewell, Shelagh Delaney, Dave Haslam, Jeff Noon, Henry Normal, and Tony Wilson. City Life was a well-regarded Manchester magazine, mixing radical politics, with music and culture. This was MES's first piece of anthologised fiction. He has said that a piece credited to him that was published in City Life in 1995, was in fact mainly written by a mature student who was working at Cog Sinister. (Did you write any of it? "Yeah," he smiles. "The bits about cheese." "Blue cheese contains natural amphetamines," wrote Mark. "Why are students not informed about this?"). MES's first piece of published fiction, 'Hark The Hoaly Lunatic', was published in the Xmas issue of NME in December 1985 - it's the story of "an obnoxious Christian family" boarding a train with with an evil child.

For a list of books that are all about The Fall go to this page on here: http://www.visi.com/fall/discog/books.html

With thanks to BK, biggestlibraryyet, DJAsh, Capp, Mere Pseud, niallo11, King Nat, Aubrey, stuhuggett, Stewart Home, Mr Marshall, ocelot, Rich B, Bullybones, A Worried Man, BigAl, SonOfAlways, Biggestlibraryyet, Themixer, The Very Famous Sports Reporter, Norm Waz, Davey B, and all the people that I will have almost inevitably missed out.

• To find and buy out-of-print books visit: http://www.abebooks.com/ or http://www.amazon.co.uk/

Buy Kurious! - October 8, 2008 08:17 PM (GMT)
That's odd I was going to mention in the Fall Books thread about a book published (I think) in the 80s of interviews (done esp. for the book, not taken from elsewhere) of underground or alternative artists of the time. I think Genesis P Orridge was in it and various industrial bands etc;
MES was interviewed and the interview is printed in the bibliography on here I think (which I'll try and find now) -- I seem to remember it being a great interview and I tried to find the book at the time, but without much luck...
I'll try and find out if it's on here -- and of course, the name of the book... :D

Buy Kurious! - October 8, 2008 08:21 PM (GMT)
It was a book called Tape Delay by Charles Neal (1987).

You can read the MES segment here.

edit: obviously MES formed The Fall in 1977, not 1997. :rolleyes:

user posted image

elvischomsky - October 8, 2008 08:26 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Buy Kurious! @ Oct 9 2008, 08:21 AM)
It was a book called Tape Delay by Charles Neal (1987).

You can read the MES segment here.

edit: obviously MES formed The Fall in 1977, not 1997. :rolleyes:

Very good.
I'm pretty sure The Fall crop up a lot in both Paul Morley's Nothing and his Words And Music.
Thumbing through, but can just see some records in his endless lists in WAM...

biggestlibraryyet - October 8, 2008 08:45 PM (GMT)
There's a book by Cintra Wilson called: A Massive Swelling (Celebrity re-examined as a crippling and grotesque disease) and one of the chapters is called "The Shipwrecks of Rock"

She talks about MES, and specifically the infamous NYC meltdown for a few paragraphs. It's a decent read, but she's sort of a one-trick pony.

DJAsh - October 8, 2008 08:48 PM (GMT)
Pan by Camden Joy and Colin B Morton. A fictional work which includes reference to the NYC implosion.

Cappuccino and a slice of quiche - October 8, 2008 08:52 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (elvischomsky @ Oct 9 2008, 08:26 AM)
QUOTE (Buy Kurious! @ Oct 9 2008, 08:21 AM)
It was a book called Tape Delay by Charles Neal (1987).

You can read the MES segment here.

edit: obviously MES formed The Fall in 1977, not 1997. :rolleyes:

Very good.
I'm pretty sure The Fall crop up a lot in both Paul Morley's Nothing and his Words And Music.
Thumbing through, but can just see some records in his endless lists in WAM...


If memory serves it's more like "a bit" than "a lot"... It was a happy day when I unceremoniously binned Words and Music.

I can recommend the great Pan by Colin B Morton and Camden Joy but good luck finding it as the publisher went bust before most copies escaped from their warehouse:

http://www.visi.com/fall/news/020213.html#pan

I swear I'm not making this up but a character based on MES called "the Immortal Hugh" appears in an ultra-obscure 90s fetish novel whose title escapes me. MES was friendly with the author and has definitely read it. Fact! Not sure if I should mention the author's name so I won't.

To put everybody's mind at rest there is no sordid frightfulness involving the MES character in the novel.




elvischomsky - October 8, 2008 08:57 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (DJAsh @ Oct 9 2008, 08:48 AM)
Pan by Camden Joy and Colin B Morton. A fictional work which includes reference to the NYC implosion.

Ta. Is it illustrated by CBM, or is he co-author?

Cappuccino and a slice of quiche - October 8, 2008 09:00 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (elvischomsky @ Oct 9 2008, 08:57 AM)
QUOTE (DJAsh @ Oct 9 2008, 08:48 AM)
Pan by Camden Joy and Colin B Morton. A fictional work which includes reference to the NYC implosion.

Ta. Is it illustrated by CBM, or is he co-author?


He's the co-author. Are you a fan then?!


elvischomsky - October 8, 2008 09:01 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Cappuccino and a slice of quiche @ Oct 9 2008, 09:00 AM)
QUOTE (elvischomsky @ Oct 9 2008, 08:57 AM)
QUOTE (DJAsh @ Oct 9 2008, 08:48 AM)
Pan by Camden Joy and Colin B Morton. A fictional work which includes reference to the NYC implosion.

Ta. Is it illustrated by CBM, or is he co-author?


He's the co-author. Are you a fan then?!

Umm, I just remember the name from him doing things in the NME etc, not sure I can even remember the style. He wasn't a Three John, was he?

Cappuccino and a slice of quiche - October 8, 2008 09:05 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (elvischomsky @ Oct 9 2008, 09:01 AM)
QUOTE (Cappuccino and a slice of quiche @ Oct 9 2008, 09:00 AM)
QUOTE (elvischomsky @ Oct 9 2008, 08:57 AM)
QUOTE (DJAsh @ Oct 9 2008, 08:48 AM)
Pan by Camden Joy and Colin B Morton. A fictional work which includes reference to the NYC implosion.

Ta. Is it illustrated by CBM, or is he co-author?


He's the co-author. Are you a fan then?!

Umm, I just remember the name from him doing things in the NME etc, not sure I can even remember the style. He wasn't a Three John, was he?


Not exactly - but he is in the Mekons family tree.

The Great Pop Things strip was ever-so-slightly awesome.


Mere Pseud. - October 8, 2008 09:14 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Cappuccino and a slice of quiche @ Oct 8 2008, 11:05 PM)
QUOTE (elvischomsky @ Oct 9 2008, 09:01 AM)
QUOTE (Cappuccino and a slice of quiche @ Oct 9 2008, 09:00 AM)
QUOTE (elvischomsky @ Oct 9 2008, 08:57 AM)
QUOTE (DJAsh @ Oct 9 2008, 08:48 AM)
Pan by Camden Joy and Colin B Morton. A fictional work which includes reference to the NYC implosion.

Ta. Is it illustrated by CBM, or is he co-author?


He's the co-author. Are you a fan then?!

Umm, I just remember the name from him doing things in the NME etc, not sure I can even remember the style. He wasn't a Three John, was he?


Not exactly - but he is in the Mekons family tree.

The Great Pop Things strip was ever-so-slightly awesome.

CBM's partner in Great Pop Things was Chuck Death aka Jon Langford of Mekons/Three Johns/Waco Brothers etc. fame.

I also have fond memories of this comic strip. :rolleyes:

elvischomsky - October 8, 2008 09:16 PM (GMT)
Ah, here we go - thanks Google...

Pop's Mr Nasty Hits Out! Markie Smith says "Visage aren't very good!"

More CBM here http://homepage.ntlworld.com/greatpopthings/

user posted image

elvischomsky - October 9, 2008 01:14 AM (GMT)
Three short excepts from Julian Cope's Head-On:


Mark Smith was right. Get your V-necked sweater on. His girlfriend Kay, writes hippy poems at the end of his letters’ He addresses me “Dear Jules Verne”. Is that the work of a tortured artist? Would a faker have the nerve to allow that sort of thing? You’re damn right they would. Mark Smith’s a genius. Did you see the Fall the other night? Sod Mo Tucker, Una Baines is the new heroine.
The Fall shot through us all. But not like they hit McCull [Ian McCulloch], Dave Pickett and myself. We were goners. They didn’t even have records out. You had to see them live to hear them and I saw them 28 times in 1978.
That was the brilliance of Mark Smith. His proximity. All the uncool thoughts you’d have, he’d say.
I was ashamed of my songs at this time. They were so educated. Not wordy, but too pleased with themselves. Then Mark Smith writes “The Mess of My Age” and I think that’s educated too. But it’s wise. So it’s OK.
He should have worn leathers occasionally. That would have freaked us right out. McCull and I were in awe of Mark. He wouldn’t pull a star trip, which was kind of more starry in a way, because he was even more like the person you wanted to be. And that way, he pulled a lot of shit out of us that we were scared of with the others.
With hindsight, I’ll say the main reason anything started to happen was because of Mark. He had very shamanistic qualities, a particular ability to draw the best from people.

Mac and I hitched around to see The Fall all that spring…We played tapes to Mark E. and Mac would hide in the loo. I had no shame though. If I was a plank, Mark E. would have sussed me. Besides, who cares?
One night, the three of us walked back to Mark’s flat in Prestwich. Mac started singing “You don’t notice the time on the Bury New Road” so I did mouth slide-guitar and Mark added extra words. Months later I remembered that with a fondness that almost pissed me off.

We [Teardrop Explodes] played Manchester’s Band on the Wall club on Mark Smith’s 23 birthday. It was strange to be on stage with him in the audience. I still felt that I had loads to prove to him, especially as Mac had got a namecheck on the B-side of the Fall’s new single.

user posted image

elvischomsky - October 9, 2008 04:37 AM (GMT)
Don't suppose anyone knows if Nigel Kennedy's 1991 autobiography, Always Playing, mentions Brix?
Yes, I'm being quite serious...


Wanton-Hoover - October 9, 2008 10:30 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (elvischomsky @ Oct 9 2008, 08:12 AM)

Viz: The Porky Chopper: A Meaty Selection of Prime, Beefy, Lean Comic Cuts from Viz Issues 48 to 52, with Stuffing and Sausages - Edited by Chris Donald (John Brown, 1993)
The book is "dedicated to Mark E Smith out of The Fall, who during an interview in 1986, became the first man in history to point out that Viz was no longer as funny as it used to be."

Did you know? The first ever edition of MAD magazine in the US contained a 'letter' complaining that MAD isn't as funny as it used to be.

Anyway, stirling work. Carry on...

niallo11 - October 11, 2008 11:01 AM (GMT)
Copied here from the Fall Reviews section as requested by elvischomsky...

I'm not aware that this sci-fi novella has had any extensive comment on it here. The only reference I could find was Stefan's review at:
http://www.visi.com/fall/news/020213.html

I think it was a limited edition print run and isn't routinely available. I bought it last week off Amazon, having lazily been keeping an eye out for it for ages on the likes of eBay. Only cost me a fiver plus US mail.

It's a quick read, the authors clearly had a lot of time for The Fall in the past, but - in what must have been one of the most traumatic periods of the band's chequered history - the group come across as a terribly misshapen and sad affair.

MES simply comes across as an incoherent alcoholic and the band as hapless, unable to control events. I have heard that limited concert tape posted on here with Mark slurring some rambling insults over a synthesised mess, it sounds as though Camden Joy transcribed it pretty spot on.

There are some minorish-memorable descriptions, but I found the most poignant to be the final remarks about Steve Hanley and Tommy Crooks coming back on-stage, after the lights came up, to collect their instruments (which Smith had hurled around):
'Hanley looked about wildly, unable to tell where his bass had gone.
"Steve!" Tommy shouted over to him "Steve, it's behind the drums".
Hanley fetched it, shaking his head. This whole tour had been so horribly unreal he could only apprehend it as the cumulative disaster in an MES bio-pic.'

Overall, the cut-up job between Joy and Morton works best with Joy's writing. For a writer, Morton makes a good cartoonist.

Looking back, it's a great tribute to Smith's regenerative powers that he ever got himself out of that desperate state.


elvischomsky - October 12, 2008 02:15 AM (GMT)
MES cartoons by Luz (shamelessly filched from BK's Visual Fall thread...)

user posted image

user posted image

user posted image

elvischomsky - October 12, 2008 07:17 PM (GMT)
From James Park's Cultural Icons: Cult Figures Who Made The Twentieth Century What It Is.

The Fall's entry reads in full

The Fall - formed 1977
Mark E Smith - born 1960 [sic]
formed 1977 Mark E. Smith - born 1960
BRITISH ROCK GROUP

They appeared with punk, but never quite belonged to it. Crushing together arcane references to medieval history and casual Saturday night violence, they embody a spread of British mythologies, ancient and modern, like no other group. Their tattered sprawl of a sound is a mutant descendent of The Troggs, The Kinks and mis-remembered Northern Soul. Rock's basic pitch has always been imminent ecstasy; The Fall's has, from the beginning, been immanent terror, and their one remaining founder-member, Mark E. Smith, is best understood as a 1970s disco-misfit descendant of Victorian fright-writers such as M.R. James or Arthur Machen. He runs his group like a displaced medieval Lord of the Manor, by turns loopy and cunning, and writes in an eerie, distorted, splenetic argot all his own, which perfectly encapsulates his contempt for, and his fascination with, a world he did not make.

Each entry has a symbol or more next to it, to sum their key attributes; eg Of global impact, Wiggy genius, Significantly gay, Super-rich, or Politically engaged.
The Fall have one, meaning; "Downbeat".

user posted image

PS The book was reprinted in 1992 with a different title; Icons: Style Makers And Breakers Since 1945.


King Nat - October 12, 2008 08:23 PM (GMT)
24 Hour Party People - by some bloke called Wilson.

Might all be made up though.

elvischomsky - October 12, 2008 08:53 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (King Nat @ Oct 13 2008, 08:23 AM)
24 Hour Party People - by some bloke called Wilson.

Might all be made up though.

Harold?
Thanks, King Nat.
How much does MES feature?

King Nat - October 12, 2008 09:06 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (elvischomsky @ Oct 13 2008, 08:53 AM)
QUOTE (King Nat @ Oct 13 2008, 08:23 AM)
24 Hour Party People - by some bloke called Wilson.

Might all be made up though.

Harold?
Thanks, King Nat.
How much does MES feature?

Page 86: "Maybe it was the spirit of the occasion, or maybe the fact that Tony Wilson's wife had had a chat with the Fall's lead singer Mark E Smith the previous weekend in the Cyprus Tavern, a crap venue back in Manchester. She'd gone up to him and told him what his problem was. "You know your problem Mark? You're middle class." Good one, incendiary even. Poor Mark E Smith had no answer that night, but seeing the goon off the telly in his Paul Smith double-breasted was all it took.
"There's that wanker Wilson, a pocket music vampire, the slut in the suit". Thank you Mark. "Maggie Thatcher's favourite bastard baby. Yes you Wilson, she loves you yeah, yeah, yeah." Have a finger Mark.

Think there's a couple of other vignettes as well.

elvischomsky - October 14, 2008 09:23 PM (GMT)
Two covers;

1. The now "legendary" Pan...
user posted image

2. Shake, Rattle and Rain. Note "The Fall Street" in the top left corner...
user posted image


And that Viz quote in full!
user posted image

PS Does anyone know if The Fall feature in any of the books by Frank Skinner or Stuart Maconie?

Buy Kurious! - October 14, 2008 09:28 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (elvischomsky @ Oct 14 2008, 09:23 PM)
PS Does anyone know if The Fall feature in any of the books by Frank Skinner or Stuart Maconie?

Apparently, there are some Fall mentions in Maconie's Cider With Roadies.
According to pomfob at the bottom of this post

elvischomsky - October 14, 2008 09:47 PM (GMT)
Excerpt from Cider With Roadies;

"I produced my cheap Dixons cassette recorder and Smith, though quaffing deep of a pint of 60 shilling, stopped and sat upright. 'Where d'you get that from?'

'Dixons,' I replied, truthfully.

'That's just the kind of gizmo I want. For me lyrics when I'm on the road. A little recorder that takes proper cassettes, not those micro cassette things. I went to buy one in my electrical shop in Prestwich. Bloke offered me one of those Dictaphones that take those stupid little cassettes. I said, "No way, pal. I'm on tour a lot. I could be in a hotel in Oslo, Budapest, Eindhoven. I get an idea for a song, I want to be able to use ordinary cassettes. Not have to go traipsing round Tel Aviv or Brisbane for them stupid little ones".

'He said, "Don't be daft, mate. You're living in the past. Everywhere sells these little tapes now. Everywhere. Get with it, man".

'So I said, "OK, I'll take the machine. And I'll take ten of the little tapes as well".

'And he said, "We don't sell 'em".

MES laughed long and hard and then drank his beer in much the same manner."

- Maconie also writes about a journalist going to MES' house and being offered a meal. When Mark emerges from his kitchen, he's brandishing two crisp sandwiches. For the truth about this incident, see page 12 below.

Aubrey The Cat - October 15, 2008 08:43 AM (GMT)
The Fall have an entry in The most recent Grove's Dictionary of Music and Musicians, just before Falla. They also crop up in the entry for Nigel Kennedy, where it says that he used to be a member of the group. Go and look in your local central library.


There are two mentions in Iain Banks's The Crow Road. Not worth reading for that, but very worth reading in its own right.

elvischomsky - October 15, 2008 06:48 PM (GMT)
Thanks Aubrey.

This is a bit of a classic of its kind.
The 25,000 page dictionary is currently available at "a new lower price"; £750.
The author is clearly a pretty hardcore fan, citing 'Disintegration (?) as one of their three best albums.
He also has the ultra-rare recordings that The Fall made with Nigel Kennedy (???), and spells Michael Clark's name wrong - cause he's so flippin' Punk Rock.
Still what do you expect for £750? Research?

Fall, the.

English punk rock group. Its principal member, Mark E(dward) Smith (b Manchester, 5 March 1957), formed the group in Manchester in 1977 with guitarist Martin Bramah. Their first recording, Bingo Master's Breakout (Step Forward, 1978), an eerie piece which mixed fragments of local popular culture with punk rock influences from New York and London, formed the matrix of Smith's later work. Over the next two decades the Fall released almost 30 albums, of which Live at the Witch Trials (Step Forward, 1979), and This Nation's Saving Grace (Beggars Banquet, 1985) and Disintegration (1989) were among the most outstanding. Built around Smith's fractured lyrics and ranting vocal style, the Fall has remained unaffected by trends in pop music and maintained the oppositional spirit of the early English punk movement, although the musical frame has shifted slightly since 1977, moving from indie guitar-based rock towards 1990s dance rhythms. Among Smith's musical collaborators in the group have been Brix E. Smith and Marc Riley (guitars), Gavin Friday (vocals), Nigel Kennedy (violin) and Julia Nagle (keyboards). Smith wrote a play Hey! Luciani which was staged in London in 1986, and composed the music for Michael Clarke's ballet, I am Kurious, Oranj (1988).

DAVE LAING

elvischomsky - October 15, 2008 07:28 PM (GMT)
Those Crow Road Fall references in full:

Page 359: "Music started up in the marquee. Kiss The Bride. Ash stood on the Persian rug again, putting one hand to her ear. Hark; it's young brother and his pals. She frowned. 'Doesn't sound like a Mark E. Smith or Morrissey track to me.' She shook her head. 'Tsk. How are the mighty fallen.'..."

Page 384: "I'd stand and look at time-dark paintings, or run a finger over the line of some cold, marble animal, while the tall, glittering rooms resounded to the Pixies, REM, Goodbye Mr Mackenzie, The Fall and Faith No More."

Zoot Horn Polo - October 15, 2008 07:42 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (elvischomsky @ Oct 16 2008, 06:48 AM)
Thanks Aubrey.

This is a bit of a classic of its kind.
The 25,000 page dictionary is currently available at "a new lower price"; £750.
The author is clearly a pretty hardcore fan, citing 'Disintegration (?) as one of their three best albums.
He also has the ultra-rare recordings that The Fall made with Nigel Kennedy (???), and spells Michael Clark's name wrong - cause he's so flippin' Punk Rock.
Still what do you expect for £750? Research?

Fall, the.

English punk rock group. Its principal member, Mark E(dward) Smith (b Manchester, 5 March 1957), formed the group in Manchester in 1977 with guitarist Martin Bramah. Their first recording, Bingo Master's Breakout (Step Forward, 1978), an eerie piece which mixed fragments of local popular culture with punk rock influences from New York and London, formed the matrix of Smith's later work. Over the next two decades the Fall released almost 30 albums, of which Live at the Witch Trials (Step Forward, 1979), and This Nation's Saving Grace (Beggars Banquet, 1985) and Disintegration (1989) were among the most outstanding. Built around Smith's fractured lyrics and ranting vocal style, the Fall has remained unaffected by trends in pop music and maintained the oppositional spirit of the early English punk movement, although the musical frame has shifted slightly since 1977, moving from indie guitar-based rock towards 1990s dance rhythms. Among Smith's musical collaborators in the group have been Brix E. Smith and Marc Riley (guitars), Gavin Friday (vocals), Nigel Kennedy (violin) and Julia Nagle (keyboards). Smith wrote a play Hey! Luciani which was staged in London in 1986, and composed the music for Michael Clarke's ballet, I am Kurious, Oranj (1988).

DAVE LAING

Ouch. Dave seems to have got his Fall and Cure databases a little muddled.

elvischomsky - October 15, 2008 07:51 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Zoot Horn Polo @ Oct 16 2008, 07:42 AM)
QUOTE (elvischomsky @ Oct 16 2008, 06:48 AM)
Thanks Aubrey.

This is a bit of a classic of its kind.
The 25,000 page dictionary is currently available at "a new lower price"; £750.
The author is clearly a pretty hardcore fan, citing 'Disintegration (?) as one of their three best albums.
He also has the ultra-rare recordings that The Fall made with Nigel Kennedy (???), and spells Michael Clark's name wrong - cause he's so flippin' Punk Rock.
Still what do you expect for £750? Research?

Fall, the.

English punk rock group. Its principal member, Mark E(dward) Smith (b Manchester, 5 March 1957), formed the group in Manchester in 1977 with guitarist Martin Bramah. Their first recording, Bingo Master's Breakout (Step Forward, 1978), an eerie piece which mixed fragments of local popular culture with punk rock influences from New York and London, formed the matrix of Smith's later work. Over the next two decades the Fall released almost 30 albums, of which Live at the Witch Trials (Step Forward, 1979), and This Nation's Saving Grace (Beggars Banquet, 1985) and Disintegration (1989) were among the most outstanding. Built around Smith's fractured lyrics and ranting vocal style, the Fall has remained unaffected by trends in pop music and maintained the oppositional spirit of the early English punk movement, although the musical frame has shifted slightly since 1977, moving from indie guitar-based rock towards 1990s dance rhythms. Among Smith's musical collaborators in the group have been Brix E. Smith and Marc Riley (guitars), Gavin Friday (vocals), Nigel Kennedy (violin) and Julia Nagle (keyboards). Smith wrote a play Hey! Luciani which was staged in London in 1986, and composed the music for Michael Clarke's ballet, I am Kurious, Oranj (1988).

DAVE LAING

Ouch. Dave seems to have got his Fall and Cure databases a little muddled.

Easy mistake. Group called "The" followed by a four-letter word, singer called Smith - only surviving original member, first single released 1978, first album 79, oft-cited Camus reference...
They're practically the same band.

Cappuccino and a slice of quiche - October 15, 2008 07:56 PM (GMT)

I assume it's the same Dave Laing who wrote this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Chord-Wonders-Popu...24100386&sr=8-1

which wasn't bad, actually.

Those Amazon Sellers crack me up. If anybody would like to buy it off me for the knock-down price of £100, please drop me a PM.

Zoot Horn Polo - October 15, 2008 08:12 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (elvischomsky @ Oct 16 2008, 07:51 AM)
QUOTE (Zoot Horn Polo @ Oct 16 2008, 07:42 AM)
QUOTE (elvischomsky @ Oct 16 2008, 06:48 AM)
Thanks Aubrey.

This is a bit of a classic of its kind.
The 25,000 page dictionary is currently available at "a new lower price"; £750.
The author is clearly a pretty hardcore fan, citing 'Disintegration (?) as one of their three best albums.
He also has the ultra-rare recordings that The Fall made with Nigel Kennedy (???), and spells Michael Clark's name wrong - cause he's so flippin' Punk Rock.
Still what do you expect for £750? Research?

Fall, the.

English punk rock group. Its principal member, Mark E(dward) Smith (b Manchester, 5 March 1957), formed the group in Manchester in 1977 with guitarist Martin Bramah. Their first recording, Bingo Master's Breakout (Step Forward, 1978), an eerie piece which mixed fragments of local popular culture with punk rock influences from New York and London, formed the matrix of Smith's later work. Over the next two decades the Fall released almost 30 albums, of which Live at the Witch Trials (Step Forward, 1979), and This Nation's Saving Grace (Beggars Banquet, 1985) and Disintegration (1989) were among the most outstanding. Built around Smith's fractured lyrics and ranting vocal style, the Fall has remained unaffected by trends in pop music and maintained the oppositional spirit of the early English punk movement, although the musical frame has shifted slightly since 1977, moving from indie guitar-based rock towards 1990s dance rhythms. Among Smith's musical collaborators in the group have been Brix E. Smith and Marc Riley (guitars), Gavin Friday (vocals), Nigel Kennedy (violin) and Julia Nagle (keyboards). Smith wrote a play Hey! Luciani which was staged in London in 1986, and composed the music for Michael Clarke's ballet, I am Kurious, Oranj (1988).

DAVE LAING

Ouch. Dave seems to have got his Fall and Cure databases a little muddled.

Easy mistake. Group called "The" followed by a four-letter word, singer called Smith - only surviving original member, first single released 1978, first album 79, oft-cited Camus reference...
They're practically the same band.

I presume the mistake is repeated in The Cure's entry?

Are their fans directed towards the 'outstanding' Extricate (1989)?

elvischomsky - October 15, 2008 08:18 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Cappuccino and a slice of quiche @ Oct 16 2008, 07:56 AM)
I assume it's the same Dave Laing who wrote this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Chord-Wonders-Popu...24100386&sr=8-1

which wasn't bad, actually.

Those Amazon Sellers crack me up. If anybody would like to buy it off me for the knock-down price of £100, please drop me a PM.

Tis he.
He also wrote a book called The Sound of Our Time (1969), one of the first serious/academic studies of popular music.
He appears to be the king of cavalier disrespect for Fall facts.
From The Faber Companion To 20th Century Popular Music (1990) by Phil Hardy & Dave Laing:

Mark E Smith, born 1960.
Has Riley playing guitar on Witch Trials.
Spells Bob Sargeant wrong.
Perverted By Language released in 1984.
'Terry Waite Says'.
Michael Clarke - again.

That's one howler for every 50 words, roughly speaking.




Country Folk - October 15, 2008 08:46 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Zoot Horn Polo @ Oct 16 2008, 08:12 AM)
QUOTE (elvischomsky @ Oct 16 2008, 07:51 AM)
QUOTE (Zoot Horn Polo @ Oct 16 2008, 07:42 AM)
QUOTE (elvischomsky @ Oct 16 2008, 06:48 AM)
Thanks Aubrey.

This is a bit of a classic of its kind.
The 25,000 page dictionary is currently available at "a new lower price"; £750.
The author is clearly a pretty hardcore fan, citing 'Disintegration (?) as one of their three best albums.
He also has the ultra-rare recordings that The Fall made with Nigel Kennedy (???), and spells Michael Clark's name wrong - cause he's so flippin' Punk Rock.
Still what do you expect for £750? Research?

Fall, the.

English punk rock group. Its principal member, Mark E(dward) Smith (b Manchester, 5 March 1957), formed the group in Manchester in 1977 with guitarist Martin Bramah. Their first recording, Bingo Master's Breakout (Step Forward, 1978), an eerie piece which mixed fragments of local popular culture with punk rock influences from New York and London, formed the matrix of Smith's later work. Over the next two decades the Fall released almost 30 albums, of which Live at the Witch Trials (Step Forward, 1979), and This Nation's Saving Grace (Beggars Banquet, 1985) and Disintegration (1989) were among the most outstanding. Built around Smith's fractured lyrics and ranting vocal style, the Fall has remained unaffected by trends in pop music and maintained the oppositional spirit of the early English punk movement, although the musical frame has shifted slightly since 1977, moving from indie guitar-based rock towards 1990s dance rhythms. Among Smith's musical collaborators in the group have been Brix E. Smith and Marc Riley (guitars), Gavin Friday (vocals), Nigel Kennedy (violin) and Julia Nagle (keyboards). Smith wrote a play Hey! Luciani which was staged in London in 1986, and composed the music for Michael Clarke's ballet, I am Kurious, Oranj (1988).

DAVE LAING

Ouch. Dave seems to have got his Fall and Cure databases a little muddled.

Easy mistake. Group called "The" followed by a four-letter word, singer called Smith - only surviving original member, first single released 1978, first album 79, oft-cited Camus reference...
They're practically the same band.

I presume the mistake is repeated in The Cure's entry?

Are their fans directed towards the 'outstanding' Extricate (1989)?

Except for 1989 it would have to be the 'outstanding' Seminal Live...

Zoot Horn Polo - October 15, 2008 08:49 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Country Folk @ Oct 16 2008, 08:46 AM)
QUOTE (Zoot Horn Polo @ Oct 16 2008, 08:12 AM)
QUOTE (elvischomsky @ Oct 16 2008, 07:51 AM)
QUOTE (Zoot Horn Polo @ Oct 16 2008, 07:42 AM)
QUOTE (elvischomsky @ Oct 16 2008, 06:48 AM)
Thanks Aubrey.

This is a bit of a classic of its kind.
The 25,000 page dictionary is currently available at "a new lower price"; £750.
The author is clearly a pretty hardcore fan, citing 'Disintegration (?) as one of their three best albums.
He also has the ultra-rare recordings that The Fall made with Nigel Kennedy (???), and spells Michael Clark's name wrong - cause he's so flippin' Punk Rock.
Still what do you expect for £750? Research?

Fall, the.

English punk rock group. Its principal member, Mark E(dward) Smith (b Manchester, 5 March 1957), formed the group in Manchester in 1977 with guitarist Martin Bramah. Their first recording, Bingo Master's Breakout (Step Forward, 1978), an eerie piece which mixed fragments of local popular culture with punk rock influences from New York and London, formed the matrix of Smith's later work. Over the next two decades the Fall released almost 30 albums, of which Live at the Witch Trials (Step Forward, 1979), and This Nation's Saving Grace (Beggars Banquet, 1985) and Disintegration (1989) were among the most outstanding. Built around Smith's fractured lyrics and ranting vocal style, the Fall has remained unaffected by trends in pop music and maintained the oppositional spirit of the early English punk movement, although the musical frame has shifted slightly since 1977, moving from indie guitar-based rock towards 1990s dance rhythms. Among Smith's musical collaborators in the group have been Brix E. Smith and Marc Riley (guitars), Gavin Friday (vocals), Nigel Kennedy (violin) and Julia Nagle (keyboards). Smith wrote a play Hey! Luciani which was staged in London in 1986, and composed the music for Michael Clarke's ballet, I am Kurious, Oranj (1988).

DAVE LAING

Ouch. Dave seems to have got his Fall and Cure databases a little muddled.

Easy mistake. Group called "The" followed by a four-letter word, singer called Smith - only surviving original member, first single released 1978, first album 79, oft-cited Camus reference...
They're practically the same band.

I presume the mistake is repeated in The Cure's entry?

Are their fans directed towards the 'outstanding' Extricate (1989)?

Except for 1989 it would have to be the 'outstanding' Seminal Live...

Christ, you're right. Even better.

snoweyuk - October 15, 2008 08:56 PM (GMT)
Disintegration was 1996 wasn't it?

I think his query got a bit wonky. Its picked the word "Disintegration" an LP by The Cure, and mixed it up with "Disintegration" in terms of The Fall, as referenced by the New York punch up.

Computers..... rubbish in, rubbish out



elvischomsky - October 15, 2008 09:07 PM (GMT)
Pedantry Corner

The Guinness Encyclopedia Of Popular Music 1995. Can't spot any mistakes, bar a dubious spelling of Brix's middle name. Not bad in an entry of 500 words. Author appears to know and like the group.
The Penguin Encyclopedia Of Popular Music 1990. Hip Priests And Kamerades. Also has Brix as "Elise" - maybe she is. Too much editorialising: "Fans considered best work to be first LP and the Peel sessions... Little musical progression over nine years."
The Encyclopedia of Pop, Rock & Soul by Irwin Stamble (Papermac, 1989). 600 acts, 900 pages. Goes from Faithfull, Marianne straight to Ferry, Bryan (See Roxy Music).
Rolling Stone Encyclpoedia Of Rock & Roll (1983). Ditto. But with Fame, Georgie.

Und!
Christgau's Guide To Rock Albums of the 70s by Robert Christgau (Vermillion, 1982). Live at the Witch Trials. "After dismissing this as just too tuneless and crude - wasn't even fast - I played it in tandem with Public Image Ltd one night and for a few bars could hardly tell the difference. Of course, in this case the heavy bass and distant guitars could simply mean a bad mix, but what the hell - when they praise spastics and "the r&r dream" they're not being sarcastic (I don't think), and in this icky pop moment we could use some ugly rebellion. How about calling it punk? B+"

Country Folk - October 15, 2008 10:03 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (snoweyuk @ Oct 16 2008, 08:56 AM)
Disintegration was 1996 wasn't it?

That would've been Wild Mood Swings... another Cure title that's strangely apt for The Fall. Just so long as no-one confuses Perverted By Language with Pornography.

Cappuccino and a slice of quiche - October 15, 2008 10:17 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (elvischomsky @ Oct 16 2008, 09:07 AM)
Christgau's Guide To Rock Albums of the 70s by Robert Christgau (Vermillion, 1982). Live at the Witch Trials. "After dismissing this as just too tuneless and crude - wasn't even fast - I played it in tandem with Public Image Ltd one night and for a few bars could hardly tell the difference. Of course, in this case the heavy bass and distant guitars could simply mean a bad mix, but what the hell - when they praise spastics and "the r&r dream" they're not being sarcastic (I don't think), and in this icky pop moment we could use some ugly rebellion. How about calling it punk? B+"


The reference to spastics shouldn't be taken literally (note to adr) but even if - for the sake of argument - you did, I fail to see how "non-sympathetic to spastics" translates as "praise" by any stretch of the imagination.

No wonder James Chance attacked him.




Buy Kurious! - October 15, 2008 10:33 PM (GMT)
I'm not sure how much The Fall feature in this, but they're obviously mentioned.

I Swear I Was There: The Gig That Changed The World - David Nolan

user posted image

QUOTE (Amazon blurb)
On June 4, 1976, four young men took the stage of a tiny upstairs hall in Manchester for a gig that, quite literally, changed the world. In front of a handful of people they played one of the most important live sets of all time. Alongside Woodstock and Live Aid, the Sex Pistols performance at the Lesser Free Trade Hall has been named by critics as one of the most pivotal performances in music history … not necessarily because of the quality of the music – but because of the effect the music had on the audience.
The crowd were mesmerized by the power and possibilities of punk – and it inspired them to create their own music that would shape the sound of rock music for decades to come. Members of Joy Division and New Order, the Smiths, The Fall and Buzzcocks were there that night as well as Tony Wilson, a key player in the story of Factory records, the Hacienda, Madchester and beyond. This was truly a gig that changed the world.

The truth behind that gig – plus the Pistols repeat performance six weeks later and their first ever TV appearance – has been shrouded in mystery for thirty years. Until now, everyone's been happy to print the legend. For the first time, here's the truth. Featuring previously unpublished photos, interviews with key players and audience members, I Swear I Was There brings pop culture to life thirty years after the Summer of Punk.




Hosted for free by InvisionFree