First of all, I must applaud Canongate Books for having the courage to publish this book. I don't know how many copies they need to sell to break even, but I hope they didn't estimate their sales potential based on the title of Sanctuary's best of compilation 50,000 Fall Fans Can't Be Wrong! Because, despite widespread critical acclaim, I think The Fall's commercial base is actually a fraction of that number. And there have already been 4 or 5 books in recent years targeting that market.

Anyway, I guess that's not my worry. I do wish the book the best of luck, because it is one of the best reads of the bunch. For a newcomer or casual fan, I would still recommend Simon Ford's Hip Priest, as a more conventional rock biography. But this book will definitely appeal to those who have followed the group a bit more closely over its history and are keen to hear the story from the other side for a change - the non-Mark E Smith approved version of events.

It's pretty obvious (and understandable) that MES has always tightly controlled the public flow of information, and he has a tendency to apply the whitewash and rewrite historical events where necessary to portray The Fall his way. It appears to a certain extent that Mark's autobiography Renegade, released a few months ago, is a pre-emptive strike against this book. Or, at least, parts of it are damage control in advance, especially in relation to the TLCs - Pritchard, Trafford and Birtwistle.

However, Mark really needn't have bothered. There are no devastating revelations, no dishing the dirt by bitter and twisted, aggrieved ex-members seeking revenge. Perhaps disappointingly so. It might have been an added bonus if one or two had gone off the deep end in a vicious rant against their former boss! But most of the recollections are very gentlemanly and respectful, in an old-fashioned English stiff upper lip kind of way. Maybe they were scared to spill the beans…

What makes the book so enjoyable is that Dave Simpson is just like many of us on this forum. He seems a normal sort of bloke who's had his ups and downs in life and, as he admits upfront in the book, he's a fan who's become a more than a little obsessed with the group after following them since the early days. So the story of Dave and his search for the ex-members is as entertaining as what the ex-members tell him. He has a nice, easy to read style of writing.

Of course, the problem with writing a book about ex-Fall members is that it'll get out of date quickly. At the start of the book, the group includes Pritchard, Trafford and Birtwistle. The end of the book catches up with them being added to the "Fallen" body count. Their replacements have been added to the body count too, between the time the book was written and its publication.

There are inevitably a few that got away. Martin Bramah declined to be interviewed; Neville Wilding was apparently in Guadalahara when Dave knocked at his door. A few others that meet Dave's criteria of having appeared live with the group seem to have been missed, like Lucy Rimmer, Mike Bennett, a couple of roadies who got sent onstage to read lyrics and some others.

But he did get Craig Scanlon to talk, and his chapter is very interesting indeed. And he tracked down Kay Carroll for another fascinating chapter, not to mention Jonnie (or Jonny) Brown who says he was actually in the group for longer than the commonly-held 3 weeks.

I won't say anything about Karl Burns… you can read about him for yourselves.

Finally, I should probably add (because I hadn't been expecting it) that the book starts with Dave's interview of Mark E Smith. Making it a very well-balanced piece of investigative writing. Top marks!

Thanks to Dave Simpson and Dan Franklin at Canongate Books for the advance copy. :beer:

can't wait for my copy to arrive, then!

Hope it's on nice paper.

More Fall publishing than recording these days.
Printheads !

Conway, thanks for the review. Much appreciated. I don't think Canongate are expecting just to sell just to Fall fans, though. Although this is a book about The Fall, it's also a story/caper with a plot and a piece of British social history. I like to think, at least, that it's as much a book for Fall fans as Fever Pitch was a book for people who turned up at Arsenal reserves.

Thus, most readers won't be concerned (or perhaps even aware) that Fall musicians will be becoming Fallen almost while the book is being printed. Likewise I drew the line - because you have to, somewhere - at roadies who read a few lines in an encore somewhere, and Lucy Rimmer whose live input seems minimal at best. I did track down Mike Bennett but didn't include him in the original Guardian article because it seemed he only played in the studio. He later got in touch to say he did indeed play live, which I'd completely forgotten about when it came to getting the book together. I blame the fog that envelopes you once you enter the Wonderful And Frightening World. I'd say there are a lot of revelations, some of them disturbing and some of them inspiring, but they appear and disappear again in the supernatural fog. Dave.

The fog envelope's those not into the fall surely?
It's coming out of the fog that make's you aware of it.?

A Fall fan:


Looking forward to the book.

Looking forward to this.

I wish you had included Lucy Rimmer, not only because her contributions were a bit more than "minimal" (sang lead on a few recordings, as well as live) but also because of her relationship with MES.

And I'm assuming there will be an interview with Elena. As far as I know, that would be a first.

From off that Wikipedia; 'Simpson has promised an update of his search for Karl Burns in his upcoming book "The Fallen", due for publication is September, describing "a mammoth wild goose chase which ends with an encounter with a sole hairy figure in the windswept, desolate hillsides above Burnley".'

So maybe that's KB in the picture, BK?!?

I did try to find Lucy, Son of....

Why would there be an interview with Elena? She hasn't joined The Fallen, unless you know something we don't?! :D

Mark talks about her, though.

I'm going to buy several copies for this for a slew of Birthdays and Christmas presents coming up - everyone I've mentioned the 'concept' to says it sounds brilliant - and none of them are Fall fans.

Ah, right, just former members. And here I was excited for that Dave Spurr interview as well. :D

Simpo also kindly agreed to do an interview with the Halfcut zine I contribute to. The zine will be ready early September and is free to anyone in the UK.

If you've previously received a zine, you should still be on our mailing list. If you haven't received a Halfcut zine before, PM me your name & address or make contact via the weblink in my sig and a copy will be mailed out to you.

:( oh well .... i'll get it anyway.

:D

He's still waiting for the tour bus to come back...

I hope people aren't going to start referring to the ex-members as "The Fallen" now...good name for the book and that, but...

Karl is alive... :D


"A right riveting read" - Simon Reynolds
"A Canterbury Tales for the MP3 generation" - Stewart Lee
"A British, provincial take on Apocalyspe Now!" - The Quietus
THE FALLEN - September 18
www.thefallenbook.co.uk

There's a potential obvious sequel to Dave Simpson's book; 'The Forum: Searching For The Missing Members of The FOF'.
Non?

Cannot wait - fantastic.

I think you should run a compo amongst the forum, Simpo, to see which one of us can come up with a suitable tagline that you can feature on the inevitable reprint :thumbsup:

Roll on September 18th!!!!

'The FUCKED OFF'?

To stay on topic(ish) - has Canongate released any Fall books before?
Because I was just looking at a caricature of MES that Canongate had printed on t-shirts in 2003... :confused:

"I never got an advanced copy" - Hanley Played a Fender P.

Stew Lee was on BBC radio recently going on about his new Edinburgh show. Never mentioned The Fall once.

Call yourself a Fall fan?

That cricket toff bloke mentions them all the time!

"Oh I say, caught in the goolies. Time for tea and cakes. That man over there with the burger, trying to eat himself fitter. Oh I say. Missed the Mojo award. Only 700 quid. Oh I say. Went to Oxford. Oh I say".

Hope your book does well.

Amazed that such an avid fan has managed to post so few times on what is perhaps the holy grail of all Fall opinion and knowledge.

Intrigued Penguin

On his new DVD there is an "extra" of him playing the "Pestival" and when you click it the words "what really went on there, we only have this extract" pop up.

I was going to put that at the beginning of a documentary I'm making about Bill Bailey, but am slightly worried about infringing copyright.

You're making a documentary about Bill Bailey! How cool is that. For television?

Not sure - it was going to be an extra on the DVD of the Tinselworm show but it's err.."too good" so it'll be expanded and possibly for broadcast or maybe a seperate release once Bill decides what he wants to do with it. I'm happy just to spend time with him.

I don't know about the t-shirt, but the caricature must be from Martin C. Strong's "The Great Alternative & Indie Discography", published by Canongate in 1999.

:applaud:

Ah yes, you're right - very well figured out, MP!
:applaud:
The artist was Harry Horse who did caricatures in the early Strong books, was Canongate's inhouse artist.
He was also an acclaimed childrens' author, but met a very grim end...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/2007/jan/24...booksobituaries

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/c...icle4303607.ece

Blimey! I put the caricature in the art wank thread ages ago, but I didn't know any of that.
Thanks to you both! :beer: :applaud:

Got a copy of The Fallen in the post this morning, and 12 or so hours later I've just finished reading it.
I think most people on here will end up doing pretty much the same with this fantastic, riveting book.
Anyway, just for now...
This is the best book on The Fall by a country mile - telling you far more about the mind, motivation and Machiavellian machinations of Mad Mark E Smith than Renegade ever did.
To paraphrase a line in it from Dave Milner on being in the group; The Fallen's a soap opera, a Greek tragedy, a great comedy, a horror film and a pantomime all in one.
Oh, and most importantly of all, there are quotes in it from about 9 or 10 FOF members, some in a lovely tangential chapter on being obsessed with The Fall, others later in recollections of legendary gigs.
And no, I'm not saying who.
Right, I think I need a lie down now.
Wonderful stuff.
Well done, Dave!

:thumbsup: :applaud: :thumbsup: :applaud:

Jammy b.......d! :zip:

Bandstand?
Bedspread?
Billboard?
Blackbird?
Blockhead?
Bodyguard?

:confused:

I have no idea what that emoticon is meant to represent, BK.
Is it Dick Emery's comedy vicar?

:confused:

Are there loads of pics in the book???

Usually just one on each chapter title page, but there are 36 chapters.
A couple more sprinkled around...

PS ON EDIT: They're pretty much all "previously unseen" photos, supplied by The Fallen...

Fabulous!

I thought he was from Accrington. Anyway, everyone knows all the lah-di-dahs are in the South in places like er Worthing for example. :lol:

I was sorting some mail and came across a letter for a "Lucy Rimmer" not so long ago. Not that common a name I thought.
I could probably ask her postie to ask her if she was ever in the Fall.

Worthing is more 'chav de chav' than lah de dah these days.

Anyway, not into sports where they run off to Mummy crying whan it rains a bit.

"Oh mother, it looks like rain. My whites might get jolly damp. Oh my gosh, how frightfull would that be. "

That aint sport, even in Accrington bloody Stanley.

He played for Accrington Stanley too.