I think Virgin still have the complete recordings from the last couple of nights at the Electric Circus 1977 somewhere in their vaults. I know that recently they said they could only locate the reels that Short Circuit was pressed from but still think there's a good chance they have the full masters somewhere.

Given the bands on the bill if they found the masters then they'd cash in from the line up alone plus the early material being played and the decent quality of the recording. Proper early gigs by a lot of bands that went onto to greater things.
There's a lot of mileage in it as individual albums by artist could be done or an entire boxset of the two nights.

Either way I'd be interested in it.

Big catchment audience too when all the bands' fanbases are totalled up.

Someone would need to press Virgin though to generate interest.

I love the sound of those two Fall tracks, it would be great if they released the whole set.

I discovered The Fall on this record.

It blew me away. I think I was 15.

I was listening to those two tarcks just yesterday as it happens. To say it was their first live recording, it sounded better than some recent live recordings. Eeeh, them were the days when he actually gave a shit about what impression he created.

the Joy Division hardcore are desperate to see this too

the steel pulse fans i've yet to meet

There's John Cooper Clark and Buzzcocks too and the other lesser known bands would be great to hear. A boxset of this gig featured in it's completeness would be top.

It would be a look back bore's paradise.
Book me one!

I love those tracks, despite the author of one Fall book claiming they sounded crap. Yes, it was ne of the earliest Fall memories for me..not so much last orders, but steppin out sounded like nothing else at the time really.

Count me in - I love those tracks despite the unjustified and unnecessary drubbing they seem to get.

Is it too much to hope for tho? :o :(

I've had long experience of asking /demanding :rolleyes: :D for live / archive stuff to be released by people like Bowie and The Fall and either find it doesn't happen or the dribs and drabs that emerge fall way short of expectations (either in terms of quantity or quality of the mixing and stuff like that :( ).

Still, the optimist in me says let's make it happen ^_^

I expect the copyright issues would be a nightmare so it would be unlikely that all the bands would be on the same release.

However, knowing our luck, the tapes have probably long been destroyed. :(

in contrast to my previous post, it can be worth demanding archive stuff tho.

can work.

Before the Bowie Ziggy the Motion Picture DVD / CD was re-released circa 2002/3, I'd made it a mission of mine that it should re-emerge, remixed.

I encountered many doubters who'd say the tapes were lost, the multi tracks would be in no state to work with.

It did re-emerge. Admittedly the mix was still atrocious in places, but it's an improvement of sorts...and it's given me and a mixer guy I know something to work on to make it right :)

My point is I can't tell whether whipping up support for a re-release like this helped or not, but it certainly can't do any harm. :)

:devil2:

I think all Fall fans would defo buy this (can't say the same for the Voiceprint crap) so Sanctuary or whoever should get on the case.

Well Virgin have the Production rells for Short Circuit but apperently can't locate the master tapes from which the individual tracks wre taken...so I'd reckon there is a fiar chance they still exist somewhere.

Real coup is someone found them.

I used to have a bootlleg ('Best in Good Food') of the entire Buzzcocks set - complete with missing bass for the beginning of 'Times Up' - Garth's lead was broken, and the subsequent overdub for the 'Short Circuit' album was Steve Garvey's first task as new bass player. Pete Shelley also makes a (tired and) emotional speech after his 'This is it now, Time is Up' remark about the need for a decent club in Manchester before they go into the song.

It would indeed be really nice to see this on CD release, mastered from the original. I can't see what the objection would be from other bands involved and would fit in nicely with all the interest Control has gained in the last couple of months. Can't see Capitol records doing this though - big corporate outfit that they are.

So you're saying they have been found then?

No...the Production Reels are the tapes used to master Short Circuit as an album and they contain only the tracks on the album...not any of the rest of the gig...so the original recorded masters need to be found...or we'll be left with 2 tracks only from this great early gig.

Do we know the setlist? Or have any bootlegs (even audience recordings) ever surfaced?

I've always really liked those two songs too.

RE: Missing tapes.

It is always bizarre to me how poorly these big companies seem to care for their own valuable assets.

:zzzz: "Oh yeah, master tapes? I think we stored 'em in some box somewhere. Nah, we didn't keep any paperwork about where we put them. Why should we have? Oh, who knows, maybe we threw the tapes away away. We don't know. Who cares anyway? Oh, they might be worth something to somebody? Maybe we'll try to dig them out. If the tapes didn't rot and crumble to dust we MIGHT put them out. But, it's not like they are old BEATLES tapes or anything, so we probably don't need to bother. We're a big company you know, we have more important NEW music to release than this old crap." :zzzz:

this would be a treasure indeed. The Fall came out the best on the whole thing. Am I mistaken or was this released as a dounble 10"? I never got hold of it, but a friend still has it, I hope... Must find out.

Someone recently posted the three Magazine tracks from this gig over on Dime.

The poster also mentions the uncertainty over when the gig took place. The gigography says it was in October. The poster thinks it was November, since it was Magazine's 2nd gig, and the first was in late October.

No, it was a single 10" release. most came out on blue vinyl, the black vinyl is the rarer.
As for the master tapes, my guess is that they are hidden away in some bootleggers collection having been stolen from Virgin, waiting to be sold back to the record company. See Clinton Heylin's book: Bootleg: The Rise And Fall Of The Secret Recording Industry for other examples of this.

while I concede that book (which I have not read) could have some directly pertinent info, I'm certain that missing masters are generally down to record company mismanagement rather than thieving bootleggers...

:devil2:

There was also a 12 inch version. Same exact songs and sleeve, just different format.

have the buzzcocks bootleg here somewhere
very good if i remember correcty
yes lost master tapes seems to be a problem with Virgin
they have even lost the master to Never Mind The Bollocks
according to John Lydon - All reissues are mastered off vinyl

must have got that idea from MES :lol:

The guy from Shy Talk told me a couple of months back that he knew people around Manchester who had the entire Fall show from Electric Circus on tape...but that he'd never actually heard the tape himself. He also confirmed he was at the Fall's first gig, but didn't record it, then went on to state a list of people in attendance that had the capability and likelyhood of recording it. Verey interesting..I reckon some of those people have a copy of the tape and that some of the original members also have the tape. I was asking Tony Friel about early gigs and did he have any tapes or photos, he said no about photos...

So what have you got for us?

The new expanded version of Another Music in a Different Kitchen contains the Buzzcocks' set from the last night at the Electric Circus.

I don't have it so I dunno what the source for that recording is ie whether it's from a bootleg or they've gone back to the original recordings but if it's the latter, then The Fall's set would presumably also be accessible...

Yes I agree. We won't know unless it is confirmed the Buzzcocks set from the last night at the Electric Circus that's released is actually, definatley, from the exact same "missing" master tape that was used for Short Circuit. But it could also be what's being released is from a different tape that just happened to record same Buzzcocks set simutaneously. Sometimes the same gig may be recorded by more than one tape recorder. If someone on the fourm gets ahold of that expanded Different Music, I hope he or she will check to see if the liner notes say anything about it being culled from the master tape for the Short Circuit complilation, and then report back to us. If it's not, then it probably means the full sets by The Fall, Joy Division, The Drones, Clarke and Steel Pulse might remain unaccounted for. But if it is, we can start pestering the record company to negoatiate with Mark for it's release! :)

I remember a conversation I had with Steve Shy before a Fall gig last year, where I felt sure he had stated he had been in attendance at the first Fall gig. I remmeber him coming on here late last year to state that he wasn't at the first gig but had been at the Electric Circus gig and he mentioned a few other well known tapers who were also in attendence (who's names I won't mention for obvious reasons!) I might well have got mixed up as I was very drunk at the time but he was a nice bloke and really interesting. I could have chatted to him all night but I was dragged away by my wife :D

My guess is that the one person who would know about both the Electric Circus gig and the debut gig would be Richard Boon. Both the original recording for the 10" and any other recordings that might have been made and might well be hidden away somewhere. I know where he works so I could go and ask him when I'm in London in a couple of weeks time but I don't like pestering people at the best of times.

Is anyone on here is contact with Richard?

I never understood how these two live Fall songs are recorded so well (they pretty much pass for the live in the studio sound of contemporaneous Fall releases of the time), yet we've never been able to get a Fall recording as good since, particularly since the Fall's stature has done nothing but rise from the obscurity that surrounded them at the time. I love all the rough-n-tumble 80's Fall live albums, but think how nice it'd be to get a pristine full live concert (and I realize there are a handful that come close, like Boston 88 and the Iceland 83).

(cue obligatory "i prefer the 3 rooms over-can only hear the 1 instrument-approach to live Fall albums" comment)

Do it! Do it!

PS Can you also ask him what happened to his book on Rough Trade!

What book?

Is this something he's writing or editing?

It was mentioned a long time ago in The Wire or maybe even The Catalogue...

[QUOTE]


Did you chase Richard Boon up about his? I reckon you're probably right about him knowing the details of the master tapes...and that he could probably have some sway in accessing them.

He's an advocate of The Fall so I think he might help if he can.

Walked right past his place of work last friday but couldn't pluck up the courage to go and ask him. It just felt too intrusive, seeing as he was working. I might get one of my mates who lives in Stoke Newington to ask him.

I agree. If anyone has the answer to this one it's him...sorry :ohdear:

No need to apologise...but it's clear Richard Boon could help...it's always difficult approaching someone at work...do you know him at all? If so that's a good help.

Thanks for even considering it though...amazing if it actually worked and the thing was found and released. You'd help all 50,00 Fall fans smile.

Surely this thread should be higher than the one from Mark requesting we talk about the new lineup?

I've always loved that line from Last Orders that goes - ''Everyone's in Prison or in the Army.'' I'm still amazed what a considerable talent for lines which leap out at you Mark Smith had at such a young age. There's such a lot of guff written about him these days by journalists intent on repeating the same old shit (and to be fare he doesn't seem to do a great deal to alter this) about sackings and drinking, that the richness of the best of his writing seems to have been pretty much forgotten. I still marvel at the ability he has demonstrated at various times to be simultaniously funny and thrilling in his use of the English language. Last Orders reveals that this was there from the begining.

Put me down for a copy of the complete recording.