Imagine a new collection from Receiver Records or something of the ilk. tracks you already have a million times, shoddy packaging and sleeve notes, nothing you would ever really think of playing, it would simply sit on the shelf. Well?

Me, I would probably buy it...it's not my life long ambition to own every Fall record, but the more I get, the happier I somehow feel.

no...i dont own any....i never will :nahnah:

Unless someone gave you one as a prezzie... ;)

i'd throw it in the bin

Depends what you mean, Martin.

I'd buy another "Fiend with a violin" LP, made up of unreleased tracks, even if I knew that some of them would be pointless/

However, I'd never buy a compilation of tracks I already own, don't see the point in that :blink:

Not very green of you. you could recycle it as something.

Fair point. By the way, does anyone on this board own those japanese compilations, Box One and Box Two, I think they're called. They really are for completionists. Mr Temperance?

i aint green....just been filling a maxi skip today

Some of them are – dare I say it – quite good.

The five compilations:-

Sinister Waltz
Fiend With A Violin
Oswald Defence Lawyer
Oxymoron
Cheetham Hill

all contain previously unreleased material. If this had been better organized and annotated – i.e. arranged by period or source with notes to say which tracks are live or studio outtakes and when they were recorded – they'd be very worthwhile. They all have their moments, but these are annoyingly mixed in with sub-standard stuff, weird edits, dubbed-on applause and so on. Plus the sleevenotes are a joke.

However, uneven or not, they don't duplicate each other or any previously released material. And Fiend With A Violin is useful as the closest thing there is to a 1985 live album.

Getting back to the point, this poll is a bit ambiguous because it needs to make a distinction between

• Albums of previously unreleased material (the above 5)

and

• Albums pointlessly compiling tracks on previous Receiver releases (The More You Look The Less You Find, Northern Attitude, Archive Series, etc)

For anyone really interested in The Fall, I'd say the compilations Sinister Waltz, Fiend With A Violin, Oswald Defence Lawyer, Oxymoron, and Cheetham Hill are worth having. Plus, 15 Ways To Leave Your Man is a fairly average live recording that may or may not be worth it if you like that sort of thing.

But ignore all the rest.

No chance- total shit.
Furthermore i think they have damaged the Falls reputation or at least cheapened the name.

How do you know if you don't buy them?

And bad records don't cancel out good ones.

M.E.S. could have stopped these releases if he'd wanted, so I wouldn't worry about The Fall's reputation – he doesn't.

I'm pretty much a slow completist. I'll probably get them all in my own time but I avoided that rash of live cds with the same cover of MES giving us the finger. I don't think I'm missing much.
However, I saw the Northern Attitude CD 2nd hand for about 4 quid and despite having all of the tracks I thought I'd give alternate versions and live recordings a go. I actually thought that most of it was quite good. I enjoyed the alternate versions quite a lot. If, like you say though, it's just a mish-mash of previously released stuff that's then been re-compiled - well then that's pretty shoddy stuff. But since I haven't got the previous stuff it wasn't that bad.
And I'm currently really enjoying the 5cd bootleg box set despite each disc having a virtually identical track listing. Each show has it's own character and atmosphere even though two of the shows are only 24 hours apart. Since the random factor is what I enjoy most about Fall shows, it's kind of obvious I'd end up liking the box set.
Oh... is that 5cd one Action Records - I can't remember...

It's also worth noting that there have been many pointless Fall compilations released by companies other than Receiver – 'Rebellious Jukebox', for one.

But I'm not trying to defend Receiver – The More You Look The Less You Find, Northern Attitude and Archive Series are fairly insulting cash-ins.

The question was "Would you buy a new one", that doesn't mean to say i didn't buy or hear any of the old ones- i bought a couple and heard the rest and i think they are totally shit.

Regarding the Receiver compilations: i doubt M.E.S could stop them if he wanted to- if he signed the rights to those tapes over to Receiver.

Your absolutely right bad records don't cancel out good ones- but in any other field of business if you flood the market with inferior product- it eventually has a negative impact on the brand- the brand in this case is The Fall.

I just think they have done more (long term) harm than good.

Just an opinion.

This debate occured around about a year ago- i thought the same thing then and i haven't changed my mind. :)

oh i got these

i thought u meant those where he sticks 2 fingers up....i dont buy those....the cover just sez dont fuckin waste yer money

I'm between the second and third choices — would buy if it was cheap. I did buy the DVD-audio version of Fiend with a Violin, chiefly for its novelty value and to see what DVD-A was like. I don't own any of the others, but I occasionally bid on the Time Enough at Last set on eBay (haven't won it yet).

Well . . I never saw those at more than a fiver, so they always struck me as cheap compilations, though perhaps if I could burn my own cd selections I would see it differently ..
I especially enjoy the tracklist of The Less You Look .. which gets a thumbs up from my ears :girl2:

Haven't got Cheetham Hill, the others I have...they're okay, it's just a pity that the sleeve notes are such a load of crap...

How do you sleep at night?

Who sang this about whom?

Lennon about McCartney.
Do I win a prize?

No money left. All spent on Fall compilations. Where can I get Box One, by the way?

I'd say it's v. unlikely you'll find it anywhere.
Spend your cash on Cheetham Hill.

Could find it in a Japanese second-hand store, I suppose. All I need is the cash for a flight for Tokyo, and it could be mine.

Anyone know if the sleeve notes are in Japanese?

And I thought I was obsessed!

I'd really like to know how worthwhile these are. I am considering trying to order both 3xCD sets of these, but I need some more input please-ah.

http://www.amazon.co.jp/exec/obidos/ASIN/B...8757623-0282729

Speaking of The Fall and Japan can anyone fathom what the hell this japanese amazon listing is all about?

Are the Fall popular over there? They strike me as the sorta band theyd like over there given Melt Banana etc.

ask grimo (?????) - he is in japan i think & has spoken here about japan & the fall & stuff on a thread somewhere here.....

I don't think terms such as "market", "brand" and "product" should be used regarding The Fall.
Part of their specialness is that they stand outside of all that.

I know where your coming- from but come on be realistic.

And how is ANYONE suppose to sell or manage a band if they don't know the market/the product/or the brand?

Even the smallest indie label works this out- they may not use those terms but it is in fact the same thing.

Anyway-The Fall have employed plenty of gimmicks over the years- radio interviews,limited editions,picture discs,multiple versions of the same release,in store appearances- even a AYAMW pic disc.

In the Middles book MES (page 160) relates the tale of buyng agents drinks: " I've just got to go and buy these agents a drink....be nice to them...it's business you see"

I've no doubt he is not fond of all that sort of shit but sometimes that's just the way it is..
And if you don't play the game to a greater or lesser extent you'll end up paying a commercial price.

I put it in cold terms to illustrate the point re: shoddy compilations.

The Fall for the most part have been pretty uncompromising and NOWHERE NEAR as crass as most other artists in the selling of their music but to ignore the outside mechanics of the industry they are involved in would be foolish.

I am realistic. I don't think The Fall are out to make money. Nor do market forces seem to be particularly relevant to what they do. Obviously some cash-flow is required for them to keep going/make records etc, but they're hardly into "shifting units" are they?

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one- you are expressing my idealized image of MES- it's an interesting discussion though.

Although the Fall may not be out to make money I think there are record companies out to make money out of the Fall. Why else issue Nothern Attitude - a compilation of compilations?
I'm sure I read that MES really regreted signing all those licensing agreements but that it was too difficult to try and renege on the deals - I doubt he sees very much cash from them -
The only way to stop them is not to buy them and they'll soon get the message - but you can't can you - it's almost pavlovian -

Here's a simple suggestion for Mark and the gang.

Put decent live sets/tapes via this site with say a £4.00 download fee.

One every two months or 4 per year something like that.

Minimal overheads- no crap artwork- no CD's or cases to worry about.

The fetish for Fall live stuff is fed/the band will probably make more money and it costs the fans- next to nothing plus you get to support the artist directly.

i think the fall r good enough to die penniless....they r so influential their value will stand long after they r dead....so in this sense the above might well be true....




but mark does want to at least make enough to survive.....and that takes some compromise.....but i think he's not interested in making lots of money....just so long as he makes enough to keep creating ...

I've only heard the Cheetham Hill CD and there are a few tracks which I would whack onto iTunes, (Spinetrack is all I can remember right now.) I suppose it'd depend on the quality of the tracks, I'm not too interested in various takes but live tracks would be of interest.

You are wrong. The Zagreb album (actually in Germany, according to the Gigography ont his site) is excellent, as is Nottingham 92. LiveVarious Years does at least have a 1997 take of "Hip Priest" which is interesting. Cambridge '88 is marred by cuts in the tape but the performances are good. Liverpool 78 has now been incorporated into one of the Sanctuary reissues, witch Trials I think.

And, above all, I will defend to death "Live 77" as I love it, even though I may be just about the only person in the world. It shows what a shit-hot band they were and they could blow away any old bunch of punk chancers at the time and is worth having as much as "Totales Turns" or "Fall In A Hole". It really is The Other Side Of The Fall.

The performance on live 77 is excellent; the sound quality is abysmal. That's the problem, always will be.

Surely that makes it the definitive Fall album, then?

A good production does not a good record make, to paraphrase another Fall lyric