voraq
Posted: Feb 3 2004, 08:25 PM

Here's a possible Trek Universe explanation that I posted on www.klingon.org/iboard It's a Klingon based billboard site for anyone who doesn't know.

I thought of posting this after reading the topic Early Romulans. This is my response to Sprockets comment regarding the change in looks between TOS and TNG

QUOTE
I know, as well(i assume) as everyone, that there is no explanation within the Trek universe that explains the difference in foreheads between TOS and the Trek after TOS ended.

As far as I know there was nothing addressing this in any movie or episode other than "It is not discussed with outsiders" said in Trials and Tribble-ations.

The inconsistancy was further complicated with the television premier of ENT when they showed a Klingon(pre-TOS) with forehead ridges.


I have a theory for how the TOS era klingons had no forehead but all other's did.

Klingons are evolved from crustation like creatures(supported in numerous Trek sorces) and by nature have ridges.

For what ever reason Klingon scientists started, sometime between ENT and TOS, experimenting with genetic manipulation to try and make stronger, better klingon warriors. Instead of having a Kahn-like result the experimentation had a viral result. The virus that resulted from the experiment, because it was a genetics experiment, made the klingon body more like the human body and thus no ridges or foot spikes. ( possibly the reason we hardly ever hear of Klingon scientists on trek)

Because of the insulting virus and lack of a timely cure the scientists involved were executed. From the time of the virus the Klingon scientific community searched to find a cure for the virus and return the Klingon body back to the Klingon people. This cure was found sometime between the end of TOS and the beginning of TMP. The cure that was found was not an overnite cure but rather a gradual cure. ( This is supported by the small ridges in TMP and ST3 with no nose ridges; the "normal forehead ridges in ST5 and ST6 but still no nose ridges; and the "normal" forehead ridges and nose ridges{as well as foot spikes} in ENT and all TNG-era trek media)

Because Klingons do not like to admit to mistakes(especially one this large) this might be the reason for Worfs answer in DS9 Trials and Tribble-ations.


Please be aware that I am not educated in genetics or biology beyond the standard high-school level. This is just a theory that I came up with based on the available Trek media.

Please tell me what you think

Qapla'



Personally I think that it ties up most of the loose ends and is very internally consistant.

voraq




cm24
Posted: Feb 4 2004, 02:31 AM

That is an extremly good explanation of the differing looks. The virus obviously infected the whole population, correct? If not, there would be some klingon, and some human looking klingons.




Natima Lang
Posted: Feb 4 2004, 06:53 AM

Another possibility they sure wouldn't like to admit to (because the dishonor of such a method would be major) is if they tried to engineer certain Klingons with the intention of making them more human-like to serve as spies. Think of the Klingon spy in the Enterprise crew, for instance...that's certainly not something that a race that values face-to-face confrontation would want to admit to. Especially if it was authorized on a large scale by the regime in power at the time!




HarryKim
Posted: Feb 4 2004, 02:08 PM

Yes, it is believed that Klingons were Genetically manipulated...

MOVE: This topic belongs in general star trek discussions.



cm24
Posted: Feb 4 2004, 02:28 PM

QUOTE (Natima Lang @ Feb 4 2004, 06:53 AM)
Another possibility they sure wouldn't like to admit to (because the dishonor of such a method would be major) is if they tried to engineer certain Klingons with the intention of making them more human-like to serve as spies. Think of the Klingon spy in the Enterprise crew, for instance...that's certainly not something that a race that values face-to-face confrontation would want to admit to. Especially if it was authorized on a large scale by the regime in power at the time!

But would the virus change the internal workings, as well as appearance? I think it would be immpossible to get on board a federation ship without having some kind of medical.



Natima Lang
Posted: Feb 4 2004, 06:42 PM

Don't know. Unless they could either fool the sensors (in the 23rd century it might be easier), or the sensors just weren't that good anyway.



Nailo
Posted: Feb 6 2004, 05:40 PM

I have a completely radical theory, that is quite plausible...

When TOS was created they had a very small budget, and they didnt have Latex ridges, as star trek got more popular they decided to splash out a bit, on the new latex ridges, thus giving us the TNG klingons,

And then Ent came along with a HUGE budget... and they decided to keep with the cool latex ridges, and because they were using people who hadnt worked on TOS and they didnt ask for any authenticity they went with the big ridges...

Leaving us Trek fans saying "WTF? Thats not right! They should be flat!"



cm24
Posted: Feb 7 2004, 02:57 PM

Welcome! We already know that's why, but were trying to come up with a workable explanation in the star trek world.



voraq
Posted: Feb 8 2004, 08:29 PM

Nailo that would be believable only IF we believed your completely radical and unfounded statement that Star Trek doesn't exist and is only a creation by someone. :D

Of course we all know that the Trek Universe actually exists. It is definitely not the brainchild of several different people starting with some ex-cop named Roddenberry(a.k.a. The Great Bird of the Galaxy) :)



HarryKim
Posted: Feb 8 2004, 08:56 PM

^Yeah Trek really Exists! I can prove it!!!!

=^= Mulder to Voyager, one to beam up=^=

*gets beamed up*



Nailo
Posted: Feb 9 2004, 05:20 PM

So so stupid...

But mulder is right! THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE! IN MY BACK GARDEN!

Or something like that :)

But if you go to this link [at Startrek.com] There is a good piece of writing on the forehead problem, its called "We dont discuss it with outsiders!"



voraq
Posted: Feb 13 2004, 01:36 PM

The first two on that site are interesting to say the least.

The third one is very believabe and is coincidently very similar to mine.


I did not know of the existence of that site until you posted it. So the similarity is totally coincidental and is in no way a modified copy of that theory.

(just so everyone knows)

Posts from another thread regarding this matter...


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chacon
Posted: Apr 3 2004, 02:04 PM

I know this may be an old subject, but its one that has raised my curiosity and I would be interested in your imput.

We all know the TOS Klingons looked totally different from the TNG,VOY,DS9 and ENT versions is due to the restrictions of Special Effects and Makeup budgets in the 60's. However I you watch "Trials and Tribbulations" DS9. It puts the old style Klingon in the same room as the newer version. And when the difference is pointed out to Worf He mumbles something about not wishing to discuss the matter, which at the time was quite amusing and I thought no more of it. However now we have Enterprise and the Klingons look like Worf.

So after looking at the disscussions logged by you all on the merits of Romulan Genetic Engineering and if It did in fact happen to them, Do any of you suspect like me that the klingons may have experemented with Genetics for a time?



Natima Lang
Posted: Apr 4 2004, 12:44 AM

It's possible, although I don't know. I've also seen something else in some of the old TOS novels that suggests there were two or more races within the Klingon Empire. Of course, this doesn't explain how Kor and company came back with the ridged foreheads on DS9--and that's where almost every theory falls apart.



xQuarkDS9x
Posted: Apr 4 2004, 05:38 AM

Then it would simply be genetic engineering that the klingons experimented with.



Natima Lang
Posted: Apr 5 2004, 02:16 AM

But how could that explain such a drastic change of appearance in one person?



voraq
Posted: Apr 5 2004, 01:42 PM

I have a theory about Klingons and genetics on page 2 of the general discussions in this forum titled Differing look for Klingons ENT TOS TNG. I think it holds up good. As do other Klingon fans from Klingon Imperial Diplomatic Corp bilboard site. If you want to check out what the other Klingon's have to say about my theory its under Klingon Sciences <then> Klingon Biology and Physiology <then> Disapearing & Reapearing foreheads. Klingon Imperial Forums [http://www.klingon.org/iboard/]