http://ds.dial.pipex.com/thumbs.aloft/wos/ripoff.htm

Very cunning, man. Inspector Morse would be proud.

The game does look a bit rubbish, though, so I won't bother downloading it.

Still, though, very crafty. 10/10.

Thanks Bub!

Any chance Sensible Doom III came first too?

Oh, I already got that! Surely there's pleanty of other trainspotting games that you could give us for free? ;)

Have you got into any trouble for this, Reverend Stu?

No reaction of any kind from the ripoff merchants yet.

They're spineless in every way, then, it seems. Pricks.

Wow good on you. I thought it was just gona be a sensible trainspotting download. I'm not gona bother downloading it though. Just the fact that it's there proves the piont. Are there any good shareware games these days? It seems the last good one I played was lammingtron. Most of the ones I've found so far just seem to be by clueless dorks trying to rip people off. And even if it was an original game $16 is way to much for it. There must be some programers some where that like games.

Yeah, mans. Imagine what you could buy for $16. A bottle of gin? A bottle of whiskey? Some sand-shoes? Some sand? A box of eggs? You could even buy a proper game, maybe?

How about we all make our own game? It'd be a bit rubbish, of course. And I, personally, have no experience of computer-related mako-stuff, at all. Is it a bad idea, daddies?

The thing that makes the trainspoting rip off so bad is that the idea stage is the easyest part of computer games. They could have expanded the game in loads of ways. You could have shcool kids tease you over your bad anorak. You could have different station and platforms. You could have muggers in very ruff station the beat you up and make you forget some of the trains you've seen. You could have had interlude screens. Where the nerd watches star trek. With little cartoons taking the piss out of that god awful show. You could have a button to make the nerd drink from his flask to give you more time (He'd be more comfortable so he'd he sit there longer). But if you drink to much he has to go for a pee and you lose time. You could have people chaseing each other on top of one of trains like in a bond movie. That'd be a funny secret that wouldn't come out very often. Or you could have one of those circus trains and a lion escape and mauls a bunch of people at the station (another secret that would't come out much). Ect ect ect. Im all for riping off other people ideas but you have to add loads to their groundwork. Otherwise it's this download or world heros.

After now playing both, I'm even more inclined to support Stuart on this one. It's like Spot the difference... but it's impossible to win.

Stu, you are being a bit rash here. Unless they've actually ripped off the original game's *code*, they haven't necessarily infringed anyone's intellectual property rights. There's no copyright in ideas, or gameplay mechanics.

Now, admittedly, Sega have tried to sue someone for making a Crazy Taxi clone, but that's because they took out some dodgy patent or other on the design, which Sensible presumably didn't.

http://www.bromo.org/?story=2003.12.06+--+...nting+Ownership

Now, what Demon Star have done might be unethical, but what you're doing (distributing their game without permission) is definitely a breach of their copyright. It's such a simple game that they could conceivably have come up with it independently. Why not just point out that the original game is available free and leave it at that?

Fine. If I've breached their copyright, let them sue me. I've emailed them a link to the page, so they definitely know about it. Let's see if they want to protect "their" intellectual property. Because if it's their game, then I'm certainly in breach of the law, and I wouldn't have a leg to stand on in court.

This has been a nice forum, so don't let's turn it all nasty by saying palpably ridiculous things like "It could just have been a coincidence" and getting people angry.

Stu,

OK, I accept that they took the game design from the Sensible game. That doesn't mean they infringed Sensible's intellectual property.

Copying a gameplay mechanic isn't enough to breach copyright. There's no copyright in ideas. What's protected by copyright is the expression of an idea - in this case, the actual game code (and graphics etc.). Since there's presumably no common code between the two games Demon Star's game could use the same basic gameplay mechanics, without it being enough to count as a copyright infringement.

If what Demon Star have done is an IP infringement, there are a million freebie Asteroids clones and the like which are infringing on Atari's IP.

Now, I totally agree that it's a bit twatty of Demon Star not to acknowledge Sensible's game. I think pointing this out was enough. Giving their game away on your site is a massive overreaction, and it puts you in the wrong legally. Demon Star won't sue (they probably can't afford it), but they might complain to your ISP and get your site taken down.

I'm not trying to make you angry or anything, I'm just pointing out that you've flown off the handle a bit on the basis of a dodgy legal theory.

When you say people you mean you don't you Stu? I think having the demon star game up on the site proves the piont so you can see how much of a rip off it is. And If demon Star thought the Rev was out of order surely they'd have sent him an email claiming never to have played the game, and they hope he dies in chemical fire. Even if they can't afford legal action they can send a nasty email. The thing that pisses me off about their game is how half arsed it is for $16. For that I say ("PRETTY FLOWER" - Ed) demon star.

Well, Stu could have linked to the Train Tracking demo to show how similar the two games are.

I didn't do what I did on the basis of Demon Star's actions being illegal. They may or may not be. I did it on the basis of Demon Star's actions being wrong.

As for pointing to the demo - yeah, punish their wrongdoing with free advertising! That'll teach 'em!

Oh no! An argument! Please, gents, this is not the digiworld way - if you want to argue, I'm sure you'll find plenty of people on rllmuk who'll be more than happy to oblige, and will no doubt throw in a few choice insults about your mothers for free. Everyone's a winner!

Fight! fight! fight!

omg shut up your all fagz lol

nEwBiEE scUm wAREs rULE!!!!! ROFLSSADWSMOAPOPY*



*roll on the floor laughing snap spine and die while simutanasly ("HOKEY COKEY" - Ed)ing over a picture of paula yates.

Who are you telling what is and isn't the "Digiworld way", bignose?

I think this whole thing can be sorted out with a good old fashioned ROYAL RUMBLE.

as long as i get to be the rock im up for it.

I'd somehow got the impression that you were strongly of the opinion that Demon Star had done something illegal. I must have misunderstood what you meant by "Demon Star have no rights to the game whatsoever" and your references to contacting CodeMasters' lawyers to "crush this ill-mannered infringement of IP".

Surely the Digiworld way would be to embarrass Demon Star with a bit of mock-me-do - perhaps a ring-up from Phoning Honey - rather than risking hassle, or maybe even expense, if they decide to complain to your ISP or something?

As for distributing the demo being free advertising - who would buy the full game when they can play the Sensible version for free?l

You may or may not have spotted this, but Digiworld is dead.

And really, don't you find it even a little off to be delivering lectures on what is and isn't the Digiworld way of doing things to the Digiworld staff?

Infringement of IP is not "illegal" in the normal sense of the word - it's a civil matter.

Damm what is it with you and dead things Stu. You always seem to get into arguements over them. I can't play the sensi version cos' I can't get my amiga emulator to work. Cos' of the kickstart copyright thing. Even when the amiga is dead comadore has gone They still manage to treat it's fans like shit barstards. On a happy note any one here played mame rainbow islands? Turns out it is the keyboard control that makes it so good.

Yes, well, you see what I meant was... LOOK! A POODLE!

(Scarpers off into the distance)

And whom are you calling bignose, tubby? (And it's not even that big, just 'distinctive', so there)

Sensible Trainspotting didn't feel dead when I played it, yesterday.

And surely Demon Star's silence on the matter speaks volumes.


-Rowan

Man, I didn't come up with the concept of the "Digiworld way", and I don't endorse it. I was led astray by my peers. And OK, copyright violations are a civil matter. But let's get back to the point:

Demon Star didn't infringe anyone's intellectual property like you said they did.

They wrote a clone, like thousands of developers before them. They didn't acknowledge what they were cloning, which is tacky. But Stu, if ELSPA had tried to claim that cloning a ten-year-old game from scratch was an "infringement of IP", you'd have shit yourself. Invoking a load of legal mumbo-jumbo about what "rights" they have to the game is just pointless bullying.

They didn't acknowledge what they were cloning, which is tacky.

Isn't that just plagiarism?

And isn't plagiarism often illegal?

They seem to think the idea is worth charging sixteen dollars to play in full. It isn't their idea.

I'd call that rather wrong.


-Rowan

Yes they did. There's no room for debate on that one at all. That's OUR game they've published. Not one with a similar theme. Not one a bit like ours. One EXACTLY the same. What do you think "intellectual property" means?

Thousands of developers who were infringing someone's intellectual property.

"Legal mumbo-jumbo"? I don't know how much more it could be possible to dumb down the page I wrote. The most complicated word on it is "rights", for Heaven's sake. "Pointless"? The point was to keep the game we designed free, like it was supposed to be. By making the full download available, that point has been achieved. And "bullying"? By what extraordinary definition of the term could that be said to be accurate? As I've always understood it, a bully has to be inherently more powerful than his victim. I'm just a bloke with a website. I haven't called in any lawyers. I haven't invoked any special powers. I just put things right in the simplest way possible, and I gave Demon Star every chance to sort it all out beforehand. Nearly two weeks later, still not a peep from them.