Dogs of War - mercenaries of the warhammer world. They're more like warbands of miscellaneous nations in the old world. The fluff for such an army could be hard to write, as not every army is connected in any way. It could be done though, so would you like to see it happen?

Can you play them as their own race? Not just as mercenary rare units in other armies?

They have an army list in a WD and additional rules in additional WD so the answer is yes, they can be their own army if you really wanted them to be.

They have an army list under the regiments of the renown (dogs of war) part of the warhammer section of the GW site.

yeah, i've read it. It seems so . . . normal.

Mercenaries working together make slittle or no sense, who is paying??

I never liked the idea of dogs of war, mainly because other races use them to cover up their weaknesses.

How many times I've seen dwarfs with voland's venators (heavy cav)... <_<

The army list has potential as it was quite characterful in the last ed, where else could you get slayer pirates fighting with vicious ogres with flying crossbowmen all over the place being payed by a fat merchant under a general with a cannonball stuck in him. It was quite a nasty list as well with lots of nasty hidden combos. I think that the book was rushed through though just to add something as a gap between established armies, wasn't it released just before the previous vc army book which was the last of 5th ed. Anyway sometimes its just nice to play something that your opponent isnt expecting and GW could also release some of its more outlandish models and units as additions.

I agree with Grimor - The current list is "so . . . normal."

However, look at the miracles GW has done to the armies with 6th edition! Chaos got totally remade and I loved it...

Chaos got entirely new rules, models, fluff, and basically everything !

They could do the same for the Dogs of War! Some units are very cool, especially RoR units like the Cursed Company...

Warhammer Armies : Dogs of War "Dogs of War - mercenaries of the warhammer world."

Think about the possibilities, 6th edition is a time of revision and change. Just take a look at the ravening hordes lists + models and you'll see what GW can do! :D

I liked the goblin general mercenary
he's cool

maybe if they use an elector count for a lord or something, so that u know whos paying

As it stands now, they have to have a paymaster (takes a single hero choice). He's the guy who takes care of the finance.

I am completely unable to care about dogs of war, seeing as how I play Bretonnia so I can't hire any of the filthy dogs, now Gotrek and Felix on the other hand I can hire but chances are I am not going to use points on slayers I don't need.

I do hate the thought of Dogs of War being used in armies to bolster weaknesses, but what about an army comprised completely out of Dogs of War? What are your thoughts on this?

An army completely made of the Dogs of War would be kinda silly. You have the humans, the orcs, the halflings, the ogres. . . the races just don't match! I'd love to see a Dogs of War army just kill itself, and that's what would probably happen. I've never used Dogs of War for my High Elves and I doubt I ever will.

do o and g mercs still roll animosity?

Yes and this question can be found by going to the website and looking it up yourself. (Merc rules are on Dogs of War section at GW website!)

Actualy DoW army isn't silly at all.
Tilean Merchant Princes hire (or train) entire armies to fight for them.
Think of DoW as a armies from Tilea.

what units are considered dogs of war or mercenaries
can someone tell me or post a link to the sight that has that please

http://www.gamesworkshop.com/warhammerworl...s_of_renown.htm

THen you can click on the Dogs of War PDF and the Regiments of Reknown PDF

i think it has ...potential, id kinda like to see the rules for an elven unit in there, and the rules from 5thed regarding a non human general [why do they always have to lead the army?]
I was tempted to collect one with lots of dwarfs , crossbows from Empire free company and a mix of calvary units to make 1 unit
[bret empire and maybe even converted chaos knights?]
I like the mercenary wizard model that looks kinda cool

My first post, joy. Well I'm a user of dogs of war, around 10,000 points, never used an army of that size I tend to stick with the 2000-3000 games. To be honest I've lost more games than i've won but i'm getting use to there weildability as such. They're a a novel army to use, pikemen are good fun although not many people wish to charge a unit of 30, with 26 attacks striking first it's pretty scary, fast cavalry are the bain of my exsistance, being out falked and the like. But I love using them, just somthing about seeing the large blocks of pike with skirmishers and heavy cavalry on the flanks it just looks grand. I do agree with the fact that an elven unit would add flavour and character, although i feel there is somthing missing, they don't initially gel together the units and them being in the warhammer world. Dark elves hate hight elves, high elves don't give a toss, stunties hate orcs and gobbos, gobbos fear elves, and the other aremies fit in with there with there history and pinache, dogs of war just need somthing, dunno what that is but i'll find out someday, I hope...lol

theres 2 pure DoW players that go to my local GW, its so stupid they have no weaknesses, theyre unbeatable.. sort of.
As a dwarf player im inclined to say that theyre not proper.

I've never used them, but I've got some fluff for a complete dogs of war list.

ok - picture the scene. Some rich, selfish dude, stole some great artifact from, lets say lustria. The lizardmen are on the rampage, and they're coming for him. He has no experience in the ways of war, and nobody will help him because he's a selfish idiot. So what does he do? he's got loads of money, so he hires an army. A whole army. boom.

But i agree that its a bit strange having humans, ogres, etc. in the same army, so there should be a rule like animosity, but on a larger scale. Instead of units fighting among themselves, whole parts of the army may attack others, or lose ld as a result of distrustful allies.

Until recently, I thought they were one of the most broken rulesets around. They were an army without weakness, and could impart a similar status on other armies with major weaknesses. Dwarfs with fast cavalry / skirmishers, wood elves with artillery / heavy cavalry were the worst, not to mention chaos with crossbowmen / cannons.

Now though, I'd say that title belongs to the Kislev list when used as an allied contingent for Wood Elves / Dwarves. It's a similar system to the DOW system, but is likely to be more acceptable in tournaments (DOW are considered taboo, or cheezy). This for an army that comprises mostly of cavalry, leaves it open to exploitation by Wood Elves and Dwarves. It also fills another of their weaknesses, magic, with that ice queen special character (it's a much better lore than beasts / life / runelord).

So while I think DOW are slightly unbalanced (and unnecessary, they fit much better in 5th edition with the allies system), I consider Kislev far worse. It's ok if used with Empire, and to a lesser extent, bretonnians, but when used to bolster dwarfs / Wood Elves, I'd consider it cheezier than DOW (because more people are willing to accept that the Elves asked Kislev for assistance in these dark times than that the Wood elves would manufacture a currency system for the sakes of paying volands venators).

I hope both armies don't go too much further than they are now.

I'd like to see some kind of racial animosity

Maybe something like for every unit within 12" of another race roll a dice

If you get a one roll again on the table below

1- taunt: the other unit mokes a full normal move towards the unit and will immediatly attempt to charge

2-5 'No way am I working with them': The unit does nothing for that turn

6- Shoot: Pretty self-explanitry. If the unit has no missile weapons roll again

I think at some point, after all the other armies come out they will get one. But it will be practically the same as in the white dwarf list. Only with a few tweeks so as the races are as fair as their troops in their army book. It will proberbly only add magic items tho, as that is the only thing that buggers the present DoW army.

I'm not going to defend DoW generals who use there army to 'beard' or 'cheese' up but I think they have more weaknesses than people might admit. Blocks of pike can be a fairly intimidating unit to attack and fairplay to the guy that gets the flank charge, but a unit of knights can survive and beat a unit of pikemen on the charge. A unit of 10 knights charge a unit of 20 pikemen thats 21 attacks, with command of course, say 10 hit then 6-7 wound you'd be unlucky to fail 2 saves, you should lose 1 knight then you'd get 4 attacks from the mounts and a further 5 hits from the knights themsleves, causing 4-5 wounds. The combat res would be in favour of the knights, they'd beat the pikemen by 2-3 points.

I know thats just pikemen, but not forgetting the mandatory paymaster who when dies gives every unit in the army a panic test, how many armies have that, vampire counts, well not a panic test but its similar enough. I know hes also a battle standard but thats beside the point. Not forgetting they're still human well most of them and suffer with poor leadership and stats.

Every army can be cheesed up to the max if there general wanted it like that, i think it depends on the person, I like to consider my DoW list fairly balnced i take about 10 core choices 1 special 2 rare and prehaps i'll use my 4 character slots, I tend not to use a lord but the DoW general is usful and is hot beardy at 126pts.

I'm not really a fan of Dogs of War, I think armies should use what they have instead of getting deifferent things. Sure, pikeman and other things are fine, but I dont fall over them.

I can't find the DOW army list on GW website. I need to know the rules for duelists. I tried the link above but it is no longer valid. Any help?

But where do u find their armylist ;)

Hmm... Just out of curiosity, how many of those who have posted in this particular topic have read the 5th edition Dogs of War army book? It doesn't seem like very many have. <_<

My short explanation isn't very good, so here's the long version of it:

The Dogs of War army is based (semi) loosely on the Condottieri Mercenary armies of 14th & 15th-century Italy. Back then, Italy wasn't a single country, but a smattering of small city-states under the loose rule of one ruler or council. While the armies of the city-states had a certain percentage of local militia raised from the city-state's local population, they often made up a small portion of the local armies.

This was during/right after the Hundred Year's War, and there were a lot of unemployed soldiers in Europe who, after a lifetime of soldiering, found it hard to return to normal life. Add to this a number of dispossed nobles from Italy and the remainder of Europe, plus local Italian nobles who wanted a bigger piece of the pie (not to mention merchant-controlled city-states who were big on financial know-how but not very skilled at military tactics), and you had ripe ground for the formation of mercenary companies, most of which were formed when the soldiers banded together for protection and to aid in finding work (even if the 'work' was essentially underhanded strong-arm tactics "pay us to *not* do this...).

Tilea is based on this Italy, and the resemblance is very close. Essentially, most of the Tilean mercenary armies are hired by a rich merchant from one of the city-states, either for protection, or for some less polite reason (such as, say, trying to take over the city and force a more tyrannical governmental shift). Captains would be hired as well, because again, most of the merchants don't know much about tactics. Most paymasters are either the merchants in question, or (more likely) they're a trusted leutenant of the captain, placed in charge of the pay chest.

Yes, the army is kind of disjointed and incoherent. Yes, it doesn't make much sense, but then, neither did the Condottieri armies for that matter. The basis for the Dogs of War core troop choices are those from late medieval Italy, and many of the stranger troop choices from the Regiments of Renown come out of Italian Folklore. The Birdmen of Catrazza use what is, essentially, a modified version of Leonardo da Vinci's flying machines. Troopers like Braganza's Beseigers actually existed historically, and Voland's Venators are rather well portrayed in their own strange way.

Admittedly, that doesn't account for Golgfag's Ogres or the other non-human regiments, but they still work in their own way as well. I picture a Dogs of War army made up of a variety of races and know that some of those races don't get along, but I also know that the various regiments are held together by the greed for money. If you like, think on this: none of these mercenaries (with a few notable exceptions) are truly stupid enough to try taking on the other regiments *before* the big battle. I can, however, picture a Dwarf Captain talking to his soldiers: "Okay men, first we crush the (insert enemy army here), then after the fighting's all done and (insert name of regiment the Dwarves don't like here) have been beaten on a little and are tired and wounded, we'll strike!"

Okay, so it isn't a pretty picture, but it makes easier work for the Dwarves (not that they need the help, mind you) and increases the amount they're likely to get paid.

Other things to remember: No-one is forcing anyone to use Dogs of War. It's optional. If your opponent wants to use them, it is their choice. If you don't like it, then don't fight them. Mind you, none of the people I play against bother to take mercenaries anyway, so I've never had that problem.

I *DO*, however, play a Dogs of War army myself. It happens to be my primary army, in fact. Bronzino's Galloper Guns were what made me decide to start playing Warhammer, back eight+ years ago.

They take some getting used to, I'll admit that. They don't really have any 'cheap' troops (but then, neither to High Elves). They have no specialty magical items to use, and no really 'elite' troop choices. What they *do* have is a wide variety of troops, with a well-rounded set of choices and some interesting add-ons in the form of Regiments of Renown. I don't win very often, but I don't play to win, either. I play to annoy my opponents. Winning is just a bonus. I've fought most armies to a standstill with my Dogs of War (except for the last edition of the Chaos Dwarves - they kicked the stuffing out of me on a regular basis).

Basically, what I'm trying to say in my typically long-winded fashion is that there *is* a basis for the army, and I happen to enjoy running a mercenary army, if only because I get to paint a wide variety of models.

Hey good knowledge of italian history!!Have you ever been in Italy?

Alas, no.

I am, however, that most heinous and devious of wargamers - a History major (graduated 2002). I've made a study of Medieval History (Medieval Studies minor - the college I attended didn't have a Major for that, alas), focusing on the Balkan states, Byzantium, and the Italian peninsula.

Well, that and I read a lot. My current area of research is the Kingdom of Sicily. ^_^

I actually did research into the background for the Dogs of War army after I started collecting my army, on the grounds that I wanted to add some flavor and extra background to my army planning.

The Ogres and other non-human units may be referred to strangers mercenaries like the lanzichenecchi who often were hired together with the italian compagnie di ventura(BTW we call condottiero the commander of a compagnia di ventura.This is a mercenary company, literally you can translate "Ventura" Like adventure but also like fortune(luck)...that was what they were searching for adventure and luck...).They were hired usually by a city-state during the internal wars between city-states...and sometimes(but only few units not an army)to protect wealty merchants...

I don;t collect DOW but bought the 5th edition book thought it was brillaint so many 2 page long fluffs...

you've got to like an army with so much fluff for each regiment and they add variety plus it means my Empire get to use 4 hot pots instead of cannons (always funny when your opponent has to remove his uber chaos lord who was killed by a stew)

As well as the valid points made by Pflarrian, I'd like to say that the Dogs of War had some very characterful options for an Empire amy. The Empire has an entire province dedicated to halflings, yet they are no longer part of the Empire- so Dogs of War gives us an option to include the funny little guys again.

There are also large numbers of dispossessed dwarves in Nuln, mostly engineers who were too creative for the traditionalist dwarves, and they make very characterful options for a Nuln army.

Finally, Ogres are a race in their own right (like Dwarves, Elves or anyone else), and many live perfectly peacefully in the Empire. And, sometimes they might join the local militia.

Not all Dogs of War are, strictly speaking, mercenaries.

Also, Empire fluff mentions that pikes and half-pikes are common in the southern provinces and more cosmopolitan cities (Altdorf, Nuln, Marienburg, etc), and so pikemen in an Empire army may simply be soldiers trained with pikes rather than spears.

Warhammer-Empire.com has an interesting article about Dogs of War units 'counting as' other things. Some examples include duellists as Witch Hunters and Light Cavalry as road wardens. The article itself is here: Mercenaries and the Empire.

Of course, there is the flip-side: those who don't care about the 'fluff' and background of armies and simply include units to cover the holes in their army. And while that's perfectly fine (after all, that's what the DoW are for), if you don't like it, don't play 'em. Easy, huh? :)

Personally, the only DoW I use are halflings because they're neat. I love halflings. Everyone should have some. Go get some halflings. Go on. Now.

-Brenton

well i love DoW's in my army of night gobbos the only ones ive hired are what his names armored orcs but they're kool

Ruglud's armoured orcs. :)

And they make sense for a O&G army, I believe. ;) Along with the hobgoblins.

Personally, I just enjoy the variety of troops I can field with the Dogs of War. Benedictus is correct, halflings are cool. Mind you, they'd be cooler if my Halfling Hot Pot chef wasn't so obviously drunk whenever he shot his hot soup at my opponents. Can't hit the broad side of a barn with that thing... <_<

In my case, I just happen to like crossbows. Oh, Pikemen are great when used correctly (the majority of my opponents now make it a point to take out the pikes from a distance), and I love Duellists with pistols (you can use just about any lightly-armored model from nearly any other human army for these, plus the Mordheim figs, allowing you to make unorganized rabble, foppish needle-users [Marienburgers with rapiers], and my personal fav: PIRATES!), but crossbows are the reason I stick with the army. The other units just add to the fun! :D

As for Malik's Munch-kins (my blue-clothed Moot halflings), they're just funny, and yet highly cost-effective for what you pay. "Forward, men, or I'll eat this chicken leg in front of you!"

As for the army fluff, well, that's why I spent as much time as I did researching the army's historical background. It was entertaining enough to make me curious. That and the battle songs. "We are Voland's Venators, the drunken cavalry!" :o