Hello.

I'm new here, I've played a few small battles using High Elves, and I've found that I prefer Wood Elves (both in fluff and units).

I've made a 2K army list, and I'd appreciate any comments. Please keep in mind that I hate cavalry (specifically; painting them).

I also have a question: I have a general idea of what the Skirmish rules are, but I don't know exactly what they are, therefore would anyone care to enlighten me? :D

Anyway, here's my army list:




HEROES

Noble, additional hand weapon, waywatcher kindred, hail of doom arrow - 144 pts.

Spellsinger, level 2 wizard, divination orb, dispel scroll - 175 pts.

Branchwraith, level 1 wizard, a cluster of radiants - 140 pts.


CORE UNITS

8 Dryads - 96 pts. (lead by branchwraith)

8 Dryads - 96 pts.

8 Dryads - 96 pts.

10 Glade Guard - 120 pts.

10 Glade Guard - 120 pts.

5 Scouts - 85 pts.


SPECIAL UNITS

6 Wardancers - 108 pts.

3 Warhawk Riders - 120 pts.

4 Tree Kin - 260 pts.


RARE UNITS

6 Waywatchers - 144 pts. (lead by noble)

1 Treeman - 285 pts.


TOTAL - 1,989 pts.


Thanks in advance.

First off, welcome to the forums.

That looks like a pretty competitive skirmishy list to me, but there are a couple questions I have on it (bear in mind that I do not play woodies, however).

1) Why no lord? It's pretty unusual not to see a lord at all in a 2,000 point game - is there a reason for this or are you just trying to make your characters cheaper?

2) You seem to be going for a defensive magic phase, given your items chosen. In this case, I don't think the three levels of magic you have will accomplish much. I'd advocate dropping the magic level from the branchwraith and making the spellsinger only level 1, which saves a lot of points. You could use those points to upgrade the treeman to an ancient then, which takes up the lord choice.

As for the skirmish rules - do you not have the main rulebook? I'm not sure if we'd be allowed ot post them here because of copyright.

I chose not to have a lord mainly due to cost (no elf army is cheap), also, I doubt my general would be in close combat enough to make it worthwhile.

I didn't really intend to have a defensive magic phase, they just seemed like good items to me, but I am very inexperienced.

And, no, I don't have the rulebook; I'm a very cheap person ^_^

So, can you recommend any items to take for a normal magic phase rather than a defensive one?

P.S. I hadn't even considered the treeman ancient, I may try and work it in.

Not taking cavalry sets pretty tight limits to the potential of a Wood Elf army: glade riders and wild riders are just about the only things in the Asrai list that can negate ranks (all the rest being either skirmishing or too slow). I anticipate trouble against armies with big blocks of infantry (like Empire, Dwarfs, Skaven and Greenskins).

As Thragka said, taking a Treeman Ancient is a good idea. But you'll have to send the Warhawk Riders ahead quickly to get rid of the threats like cannons and the likes: big expensive monsters like that are a cannonball-magnet.

Ok, this is more of an intermediate list, the only change being the items the Spellsinger has (to make my magic phase less defensive).



HEROES

Noble, additional hand weapon, waywatcher kindred, hail of doom arrow - 144 pts.

Spellsinger, level 2 wizard, starfire arrows, the deepwood sphere - 175 pts.

Branchwraith, level 1 wizard, a cluster of radiants - 140 pts.


CORE UNITS

8 Dryads - 96 pts. (lead by branchwraith)

8 Dryads - 96 pts.

8 Dryads - 96 pts.

10 Glade Guard - 120 pts.

10 Glade Guard - 120 pts.

5 Scouts - 85 pts.


SPECIAL UNITS

6 Wardancers - 108 pts.

3 Warhawk Riders - 120 pts.

4 Tree Kin - 260 pts.


RARE UNITS

6 Waywatchers - 144 pts. (lead by noble)

1 Treeman - 285 pts.


TOTAL - 1,989 pts.



Any thoughts?

@ @ztech: you'd be surprised at the abilities of dryads to break ranked up units. Not having cavalry is a disadvantage but not one that cannot be worked around (given the tree kin) with a very maneuvrable list such as this one.

@ ladders: I'd recommend against putting magic arrows on a spellsinger as you really need the higher initiative of a noble or highborn to take advantage of them. Spellsingers should for the most part go with arcane items.

I would not use a branchwraith in order to create magic levels. She is too expensive to multitask as both a fighter character and a wizard, and at level 1 she's not that great at magic anyway.

Here is an alternate hero line-up for you which would bring your army to 1,999 points:

Noble, additional hand weapon, waywatcher kindred, hail of doom arrow - 144 pts.

Spellsinger, level 2 wizard, calaingor's stave, dispel scroll - 175 pts

Spellsinger, level 2 wizard, dispel scroll - 150 pts

Having two level 2 spellsingers instead of one and a branchwraith bulks out your magic phase a bit, and the items are versatile - the Stave gives you a bit of flexibility with the Tree-singing spell, and the two dispel scrolls give you defence, making up for the dispel dice you lose at the hands of the branchwraith.

Thank you for all your advice, I'll definitely add that.

I have one more question though.

In the few small battles I've played there's never been more than one mage of any kind, and I've worked out that a level 4 spellweaver with calingor's stave and two dispel scrolls has the same points cost as the two spellsinger's you presented. Is there a benefit to having the two spellsinger's rather than the one spellweaver?

Yes there is: more wounds in total spread across two models makes the spellsingers harder to kill. This also means that even if one dies, the other can still provide magic defence so all your eggs aren't in one basket, and they are more maneuvrable so they can split up and take different sides to the field.

You lose the ability to roll more dice and thus get higher-level spells off more easily (and of couse your lores are restricted, but the Stave only works with the lore of Athel Loren anyway so if you want that to be effective you'll need to use that lore), but for that you get more spell flexibility as you can have the same spell on different models.

Thank you again. I'll post the revised army list simply for the sake of it.

And then begin cutting it down to make a 1,000 point army I can play before I buy everything I need for this army.

And now the list:

HEROES

Noble, additional hand weapon, waywatcher kindred, hail of doom arrow - 144 pts.

Spellsinger, level 2 wizard, calaingor's stave, dispel scroll - 175 pts.

Spellsinger, level 2 wizard, dispel scroll - 150 pts.


CORE UNITS

8 Dryads - 96 pts.

8 Dryads - 96 pts.

8 Dryads - 96 pts.

10 Glade Guard - 120 pts.

10 Glade Guard - 120 pts.

5 Scouts - 85 pts.


SPECIAL UNITS

6 Wardancers - 108 pts.

3 Warhawk Riders - 120 pts.

4 Tree Kin - 260 pts.


RARE UNITS

6 Waywatchers - 144 pts. (lead by noble)

1 Treeman - 285 pts.


TOTAL - 1,999 pts.

Looks resonably good. Though I´d go with a treeman ancient aswell. He is easy to protect, just put him in a wooden feature and "treesurf" him wherever he needs to be. Annoyance of netlings keeps him alive vs enemy characters. Still, the list is by no means bad :).

I have one more question, which I think belongs in this topic.

If I were to remove the second spellsinger, 1 tree kin and the treeman, that would come to 1,499 points, would that be a worthwhile 1,500 point army?

Thanks in advance.

Well, yes it would, but then you lack any hardhitters. The treekin would be the only unit with reasonable strength. Well worth getting a treeman in 1500 point armies aswell. Should do more for the army than a small unit of waywatchers. Those can be somewhat replaced with ordinary scouts.

A Treeman is almost vital in large games, unless you have a Highborn on foot with great weapon, because except that, you have access to almost no S5+ attacks (except Wild Riders on the charge and Treekin) and absolutely no S6+. If your opponent fields heavy cavalry or simply tough stuff (like Chaos Warriors), you'll struggle a lot if all your troopers are low-strength ambushers.

Speed is nothing without at least some power.

And power is nothing without control.

On the other hand, power corrupts...

But knowledge is power! Does that mean that knowledge corrupts?

*slaps himself*

To be honest, I really like waywatchers, which is why I've tried to get them into nearly every army list so far, but I can let them go, for now...

So, my new 1,500 point army list:


HEROES

Noble, wardancer kindred, an annoyance of netlings - 130 pts

Spellsinger, level 2 wizard, calaingor's stave - 150 pts


CORE UNITS

8 Dryads - 96 pts

8 Dryads - 96 pts

8 Dryads - 96 pts

10 Glade Guard - 120 pts

10 Glade Guard - 120 pts


SPECIAL UNITS

5 Wardancers - 90 pts (lead by noble)

3 Warhawk Riders - 120 pts

3 Tree Kin - 195 pts


RARE UNITS

Treeman - 285 pts


TOTAL = 1,498 pts


For the sake of points I dropped the scouts (I'd usually have just liked to add units on, but I guess I could leave them out of one list :D), also I got rid of the waywatcher noble and I'll be using my sixth wardancer as the noble instead.

So, how's this?

I've been thinking about it, and I think it would be easier for me to build all my lists without scouts. Therefore I have revised my 2k list:


LORDS

Treeman Ancient - 325 pts


HEROES

Noble, additional hand weapon, waywatcher kindred, hail of doom arrow - 144 pts

Spellsinger, level 2 wizard, calaingor's stave, dispel scroll - 175 pts

Spellsinger, level 2 wizard, dispel scroll - 150 pts


CORE UNITS

8 Dryads - 96 pts

8 Dryads - 96 pts

8 Dryads - 96 pts

10 Glade Guard - 120 pts

10 Glade Guard - 120 pts


SPECIAL UNITS

8 Wardancers - 144 pts

3 Warhawk Riders - 120 pts

4 Tree Kin - 260 pts


RARE UNITS

6 Waywatchers - 144 pts (lead by noble)


TOTAL = 1,990 pts


Is this any better than the previous 2k list? and if so, should I drop 1 wardancer and give the treeman ancient an annoyance of netlings? Then the list would be 1,997 pts.

Thanks in advance.

Personally, I like the second list better. Having a treeman as your general is enough to cause your opponent a bit of trouble when it comes to character-hunting and the like, and it also means that you now have a source of leadership to the majority of your troops other than the waywatcher noble who is prone to being out of range. The loss of the scouts shouldn't affect your army too badly as you already have a lot of maneuvrability and a solid enough shooting phase.

Go with the 1997pt list and see how it works for you.

I've been on Asrai.org, and a few recommendations were made:


Lords

Treeman Ancient, annoyance of netlings, cluster of radiants - 375 pts

Heroes

Noble, additional hand weapon, waywatcher kindred, hail of doom arrow - 144 pts
Spellsinger, level 2 wizard, calaingor's stave, dispel scroll - 175 pts
Spellsinger, level 2 wizard, dispel scroll - 150 pts

Core Units

8 Dryads - 96 pts
8 Dryads - 96 pts
10 Glade Guard - 120 pts
10 Glade Guard - 120 pts

Special Units

8 Wardancers w/ musician & bladesinger - 156 pts
4 Warhawk Riders - 160 pts
4 Tree Kin - 260 pts

Rare Units

5 Waywatchers - 120 pts (lead by noble)

TOTAL = 1,981 pts


What do you think?

Looks pretty balanced, but why 4 treekin? Still, its better than most units of these basesizes since they can march through woods and the like ^_^ .

:huh: The list has always had 4 tree kin, since no one commented o it I thought it was ok...

Well, it´s not bad, just makes the unit a bit more cumbersome, but the walk through woods rule kinda makes up for it. Just wondered if those points could have been used elsewhere since you have 19 points left.