Title: Cavalry Confused
Killer_Penguin - May 8, 2007 08:32 PM (GMT)
Ive been collecting lizardmen for a while now and there is 1 unit i dont have which is the saurus cavalry. I know there are good and bad points to them but does any1 have any personal experience with them as im still contemplating buying some to go with my army which is mostly skinks, kroxigors, stegadon, carnosaur and terrodons...but not sure if a unit of cavalry (especially lizardmen ones) are useful, or needed.
I hope to here from u all :D
@ztech - May 8, 2007 10:02 PM (GMT)
I have no experience of Saurus cavalry (or Lizardmen, now that I think about it). But ten S5 attacks when charging sounds pretty good. And the Fear, too. And the T4 and armor save of 3+. And the S4 Cold One attacks.
Many people who take this unit also take the banner that adds +D3 M during the magic phase (what's its name again?), for deadly flank charges.
However, I note that very few players take more than one unit. I suppose it's just for some support. Saurus cav is pretty costly after all.
Tyrion - May 11, 2007 11:41 AM (GMT)
The conīs are: the cost, stupidity (even though they are cold-blooded) and the fact that they only have a 3+ save, leaves much to be desired.
@ztech - May 11, 2007 09:25 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Tyrion @ May 11 2007, 06:41 AM) |
| The conīs are: the cost, stupidity (even though they are cold-blooded) and the fact that they only have a 3+ save, leaves much to be desired. |
The armor save of "only" 3+ is not so bad when you have T4. Cold One cavalry is still a match for vanilla Chaos Knights.
LordChilipepa - May 11, 2007 10:13 PM (GMT)
But it makes them twice as vulnerable to missile fire: when you're only fielding units of five or six, an increased tendency to go splat in the face of crossbow volleys is a very big disadvantage, as it doesn't take more than a couple of wounds to drastically reduce the effectiveness of the unit. The ability of heavy cavalry to ride unscathed through a hail of arrows is very important towards the battlefield role of that kind of regiment.
Tyrion - May 12, 2007 01:14 PM (GMT)
They can be used as a small flanking unit. Big units isnt simply worth it as they die to easily, as Chili pointed out. Handguns really make a mess out of them. But I belive there are better units in list for this purpose (flanking).
@ztech - May 12, 2007 01:30 PM (GMT)
I'd still include one unit of Cold One cavalry, though I wouldn't waste too many of my points on it. Even at only M7, it's one of the fastest units in the army (except of course Terradons). It's useful to have a good hammer in an army of Lizardmen: Saurii are just an anvil and Skinks are mosquitoes. Kroxies are suitable hammers too, but Cold One cav is faster and more reliable. And a character may join them.
With three Special slots for small games, I'd have one unit of five Cold One cav, one unit of 3-4 Kroxies and one unit of Terradons. With a fourth slot in bigger games, I'd take one more unit of Kroxies, for their S7.
Burro Boskov - May 12, 2007 03:46 PM (GMT)
Of all the Lizardmen lists I have seen, I have to say about 75% of them have special choices exactly like @ztech just said. I may hove only seen about 4-8, but still, I think that is universly understood as a good special choice selection.
LordChilipepa - May 12, 2007 05:56 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE |
| Cold One cav is faster and more reliable |
More reliable? How so?
A unit of Kroxigor does not suffer from Stupidity, and can take three wounds before they lose any combat power. If a comparable unit of Cold Ones takes three wounds, they will lose their ability to break ranks on a flank charge, and their combat power will be crippled. The number of wounds it takes to stop a unit of 3 Kroxigor being able to negate ranks is more than the number of wounds it takes to wipe out a unit of 5 Cold Ones. And the Cold Ones are more expensive. And the Krox's armour save is only one worse than that of the Cold Ones.
The advantages that Cold Ones have over Kroxigor are their cavalry classification (flee and pursue 3D6 being more important than a single point of move) number of attacks, WS and the ability to take a command group. Offensive power doesn't really matter that much in a flanking unit of this type, as the Kroxigor have enough - 9 S7 attacks in the flank should be enough to break any unit. The extra point of move is heavily counterbalanced by the disadvantage of Stupidity, and the fact that your Kroxigor can charge through Skinks and are Aquatic, allowing them to out-manouevre even cavalry when adequately supported by their little buddies, whereas Saurus cav with their broad frontage, lowest possible cavalry move and tendency to go Stupid could hardly outmanouevre a lobotomised brick.
Cav are only worth going for once you've got all the Krox you could want: for me, that's two Krox units for every three Skink units. With the Banner, they can be a dangerous hammer unit, and give the enemy a different threat to consider, especially if you give them a character to make them really capable of defeating infantry units head-on as well as in the side (six COR with a command group will defeat most fully-ranked 'average joe' units in a frontal charge, and if you stick a character in there instead of the sixth rider they can even scythe through a good deal of elites). They can also be handy if you have a Carnosaur to support, as they're the only things in the army that can keep pace and, for once, they'll not be what the enemy missile troops are focussing on. But I really would say that they are one of the army's least versatile and least useful units.
Thragka - May 12, 2007 08:55 PM (GMT)
I'm pretty sure that that was an inadvertent instance of somebody saying something well-meaningly, if without experience or a long period of thought before hand, and subsequently watching wide-eyed as a minor mistake invokes Chili's wrath.
LordChilipepa - May 12, 2007 09:01 PM (GMT)
I'm sorry if it came across that way. I shall try to tone down the wrath in future... it's just that people standing up for Cold One Riders has become something of a red flag for me. I thought they looked good on paper, I've seen lots of other people think they look good on paper: the truth is that without the crutch of an almost mandatory magic banner and often character support, they are simply not worth the special slot, let alone the points.