So I used my old dwarf army as proxy for my new concept army and I took first place at a local tournament B) I wanted to post the list I used for you all to see for yourselves.

All-Comers Version

Dwarf Lord
Shield Bearers
Rune of Stone
2x Rune of Iron
Great Weapon

211

Thane
BSB
Master Rune of Gromril

115

25 Warriors
Shields
Musician
Standard

240

25 Warriors
Shields
Musician
Standard

240

25 Warriors
Shields
Musician
Standard

240

18 Longbeards (Joined by the Dwarf Lord)
Shields
Musician
Standard

231

19 Longbeards (Joined by BSB)
Shields
Musician
Standard

243

10 Quarrelers
Shields

120

10 Quarrelers
Shields

120

Bolt Thrower #1
Engineer
Rune of Fire

65

Bolt Thrower #2
Engineer
Rune of Penetrating

85

Bolt Thrower #3
Engineer
Rune of Fire
Rune of Penetrating

90

Total: 2000 (on the nose)

Tweaks: Units that could be substituted in or out depending on opponent

If I faced a Heavy Armor/T Army (Chaos, Bretonnia, Ogres):
1 unit of Quarrelers for 1 Organ Gun

To stay no gunpowder themed, but make a similar adjustment:
1 unit of Quarrelers for 2 Bolt Throwers

Conclusions

Most people are not prepared to face this many dawi (152 in all) on the table. On an open field the combat line (not counting the quarrelers who are put in 1x10 lines in front of the line) stretches 33 inches/84 cm uninterrupted, meaning no skirmishers/fast cav can find their way behind the lines. It really is an impressive sight; the army scares the hell out of my opponents who refuse to believe that I didn't cheat during my army list creation!

The all comers list can out shoot any army not devoted solely to gun-line forcing those armies to march to me whereby they usually take too many casualties to be combat effective against the 140 Dwarf battle line (backed up often with Leadership 10, panic re-rolls and break re-rolls). When I was forced to approach my enemy either due to scenario or by being out-shot/out-magicked I was able to weather the storm and remain combat effective when I reached combat.

How would you fight this list?

Well I'd be hardpressed to fight something like this.

I would have to take some elites. They could take on your standard dwarves, and hopefully there better strength and armor could win me some combats. Also anything T4 or more could take on the standard dwarves. S3 needs work. I would suggest giving one of the warrior units GW.

Burro Boskov

Holy crap. Five units of core infantry, backed up by two bolt throwers and two regiments of quarrelers. I'm not sure what I'd do in an attempt to break that up. It's certainly easily a match for most melee-orientated armies, having a solid core in the centre, with enough regiments to serve for flanking purposes.

Your weakness lies in that you have no means to take the fight to the enemy. This is a standard dwarven weakness, usually compensated for by crossbow/handgun fire and war machines. You've not developed that very much here. A canny opponent (Empire, certain Lizardmen, Elves) with the right tools could soften up your heavy infantry with cannonry/missile troops, and run rings around the slow-moving infantry blocks with skirmishers/fast cavalry and scouts.

Your defence against skirmishers is the fact that your line is very wide, but that won't hold if you're forced to move forward- terrain will get in the way, or regiments will be forced to overlap. Against an army content to relax and shoot at you, or simply head to table quarters, your wide line of advance could be a hindrance rather than a help.

This would disrupt your battle line and enable him/her to select targets at will. Twenty crossbows and three bolt throwers isn't really enough to prevent this, unless you intend to rely on hills during deployment- which can be a problem in it's own right. Empire or Orcish forces are easily able to outgun you even without being a gunline. My own infantry-heavy empire army would probably have about double that amount of missile troops and a few cannon or mortars as well. I rely on core infantry and detachments to do my job, not a gunline.

Of course, against melee-oriented armies which lack fast cavalry, skirmishers and ranged weaponry, this force will do perfectly fine. A chaos or Ogre army which relies on breaking enemy regiments will have a hard time against serried ranks of dwarves. They will need to take elite regiments, which means that your sheer numbers will tell- a decent deployment will mean you can issue flank charges (a rarity for dwarves) and your armour-piercing bolt throwers will force them to attack along whichever routes you prefer.

If you were in my city, I'd love to game against this army. It looks like a challenge.

I am already experiencing some of what Benedictus is saying, I had a solid lost for this army I was forced to march against an empire gun line and the terrain and my units got in the way. Before I make the herculean effort to paint this many dwarves again I would like you all to look at the following list as a little more shooty perhaps to enable me to more adequately take advantage of a phase that dwarves have few equals in.

All-Comers Version

Dwarf Lord
Shield Bearers
Rune of Stone
Master Rune of Challenge (To ensure the Lord gets some)
Great Weapon

206

Thane
BSB
Master Rune of Gromril

115

25 Warriors
Shields
Musician
Standard

240

25 Warriors
Shields
Musician
Standard

240

18 Longbeards (Joined by the Dwarf Lord)
Shields
Musician
Standard

231

19 Longbeards (Joined by BSB)
Shields
Musician
Standard

243

10 Quarrelers

110

10 Quarrelers

110

Bolt Thrower #1
Engineer
Rune of Penetrating

85

Bolt Thrower #2
Engineer
Rune of Fire
Rune of Penetrating

90

Grudge Thrower
Rune of Accuracy

105

18 Slayers
Standard
1 Giant Slayer

225

Total: 2000 (on the nose)
Total Dwarfs: 140
PD: 0
DD: 4 :(

What do you all think of the newest incarnation? A bit more shooty and has a rock solid flank guard 18 slayers take a while to move. It also has a Grudge Thrower which if memory serves if a unit crusher. I don't know if it's shooty enough yet but at least it hasn't lost too much of the horde feel.

I'm not sure what's changed, really. You still have five units of infantry, two sets of ten crossbows and three war machines. I'm not sure how this would prevent your units from tripping over each other, or enemy units flanking you.

I'm not sure if the Slayers replacing some Longbeards (or was it Warriors?) is a good idea. On the one hand, Unbreakable tarpits are probably always a good thing to carry around. On the other, an Unbreakable unit means you're easier to bottle in and their lack of armour increases your vulnerability to missile fire rather than reducing it.

I do think the Grudge Thrower instead of a bolt thrower is a good idea. It will help soften up enemies that outnumber you, and also has the benefit of being pretty decent against armoured units, just as a bolt thrower is.

Well what would you change?

I could sub out the large Slayer unit for

10 Slayers

110

Grudge Thrower
Rune of Accuracy
Rune of Reloading

115

Which would put another pie plate down, what do you think?

I thought about it overnight. Another GT won't help you, really. You'll just be diluting your 'horde' theme and increasing your amount of warmachines to the point it starts looking scarily like a gunline.

More ranged weaponry won't help you against skirmishers and being outflanked, and neither will it prevent your units from tripping over one another. You still have lots of units, and adding more guns/catapults just means more Lines of Sight for the regiments to block.

I have a solution: Miners. They are still a regiment, keeping your 'horde' look. They are traditionalists (what's more 'dwarfish' than a miner?), matching your theme perfectly. They can pop up behind enemy lines, helping you battle gunlines, assisting with outflanking defensive enemies and causing your own skirmisher-esque disruption.

They also mean that you have one less regiment to block the LOS of machines/crossbows and the movement of your other regiments, back on your main battle line. In a game against a less defensive enemy/an enemy lacking a ranged thread/etc, you can still place them on your main line or use them as a reserve.

Therefore I recommend Miners. I'm not sure what I'd cut to get them (i.e, if you should drop the Slayers for them or keep the Slayers and drop a Warrior unit or something), but they are my recommendation.

I wish someone else would come along and offer an opinion. I'm kind of flailing about here.

You know I really like the idea of dictating some movement, I'll proxy the following list. The miners in my experience are good for one of three things: 1) Warmachine hunters (Help deal with gun line armies) 2) Work like Great Weapon wielding detachments 3) Distrupt movement by march blocking.

Lord
GW
Shieldbearers
R of Stone

Thane
BSB
MR of Gromril

25 Warriors
Shields
Musician/Standard

25 Warriors
Shields
Musician/Standard

19 Longbeards
Shields
Musician/Standard

18 Longbeards
Shields
Musician/Standard

10 Quarrelers
Shields

10 Quarrelers
Shields

Bolt Thrower
Engineer
R of Penetrating
R of Fire

Bolt Thrower
Engineer
R of Penetrating

Grudge Thrower
R of Accuracy
R of Reloading

10 Miners

10 Miners

Points: 2000 (I like it when its even OCD much?)
Dwarfs: 142 (I believe)

Yes, but then he has to be much more careful with the Grudge Thrower. Beware of the scatter dice... But that's still a good choice.

Do Rangers suck as badly as I heard, or are they an option?


Oh, one more thing. Why aren't there Hammerers? One of my friends is quite proud of his big bad 19-strong unit plus Lord and full command. I played against him and I realized just how hard it can be to rid the battlefield from those guys - not even counting the smash-factor (WS5 and S6... scary). And they're excellent for their cost if you compare them to, say, Imperial Greatswords.

I personally like the Longbeards for the anti-panic Old Grumblers rule (Immune to panic allow any unit within 6" re-roll failed panic rolls). I thought about substituting hammerers for one of the longbeard regiment but I found that it was way to expensive point-wise to run a 18 man strong Hammerers unit. I give shields to every dwarf that can carry one because we strike last and are slow so we almost always have to weather the hit to get a chance to strike back. 5+ armor just doesn't cut it.

Points comparison

18 Hammerers
Musician
Standard
Shields

252

18 Longbeards
Musician
Standard
Shields

231

Now I know that is not a big difference to many but to a horde list that is killer: 2 and 1/3 Warriors. Plus Longbeards are core, Hammerers are special.

Against most opponents Hammerers are overkill anyway. I'd probably include them in a 3/4K+ army for fluff reasons (King's Bodyguard an' so forth). For an army designed to win games and chew bubblegum, Warriors are sufficient.

Rangers...are expensive. Very expensive, for what they do. *shrug* That is all I know.

The list looks good. The small miners units should be able to be disruptive and gunline destroying (ten WS4 T4 armoured guys are more than a match for war machine crews, Engineers and most thin lines of archers/crossbowmen/handgunners) and maneuverable enough to be used as detachments or flanking forces for your main line.

Be aware that a decent reserve can easily deal with them, but on the plus side anyone with a decent reserve is not committing said reserve to your front line, where your numerical superiority should be enough to enable a success.

Let us know how the next practice game goes.

PostScript: Giving the quarrelers shields is a good idea, I think. It enables them to be used at a pinch as reservists as well, as they are equipped with light armour as well, yes? This gives them enough stamina to be able to hold off some things and be used as 'detachments' as well.

Well a unit that mimics the gear of miners can be substituted 1 for 1:

Same exact statline:

10 Rangers
GW
Heavy Armor

110

10 Miners
GW
Heavy Armor

110

The problem with rangers is their movement. They are slow scouts, a bit of a contradiction. When attempting to find a place which you can successfully scout a 5X2 unit the main place to hide them would be in the woods. This was fine in 6th when they could move like woodies through the woods but now they can't. 1.5" movement in the woods really hurt these guys. It is tough to find them a decent scouting location when they get no benefits of other scouts (like skirmishing/movement). Perhaps I'll paint some up in order to swap when I feel like it.

Last Update I swear in case anyone wishes to copy my list for their own usage I suggest the following after playtesting it in 10 games this is a solid non-Anvil dwarf army. Yes is depends more on artillery than my previous lists, yes it lacks magical defense. Despite this, I tell you proxy this army marshal it well and there isn't an army out there that you don't stand a good chance against.

Dwarf Lord
Shield Bearers
Great Weapon
Rune of Stone

Total 181

Thane
BSB
Master Rune of Gromril

Total 115

25 Warriors
Shields
Standard
Musician

Total 240

25 Warriors
Shields
Standard
Musician

Total 240

18 Longbeards
Shields
Standard
Musician

Total 231

19 Longbeards
Shields
Standard
Musician

Total 243

10 Quarrelers

Total 110

10 Quarrelers

Total 110

Bolt Thrower
Engineer
Rune of Penetrating

Total 85

Bolt Thrower
Engineer
Rune of Penetrating
Rune of Fire

Total 90

15 Miners
Prospector
Steam Drill

Total 200

Grudge Thrower
Rune of Accuracy
Rune of Reloading
Rune of Penetrating
Engineer

Total 155

The native dwarven Dispel Dice, especially when combined with such solid numbers, mean that you won't need to worry about any more magic defence than this. Concentrate on movement-controlling spells from the enemy, absorb magic missile/damage magic and you'll be fine.

This list looks pretty damn terrifying, if you ask me.

Yeah, really solid and balanced list. That many tough as nail dwarf units will be really hard to deal with. My greenskins would have a handful right there...