Hi guys, I was referred here by Benedictus as a good place to get some advice and fresh perspective. I'm a dark elf player regularly playing multiplayer games with a nurgle guy against empire and dwarf alliance...

...and we aren't that great against them.

They're very hip on cannons, the Empire guy runs 3 cannons and 2 helblasters/helstorms in a 2500pt game, sometimes with a mortar on top. This pretty much excludes me from using hydras, dragons and chariots (too easy to destroy with a cannon) and bolt throwers are their prime target for pot shots.

I confess I am poor at deployment, trying to stay out of sight of cannons but in sight of other things to shoot them. Last game, this bit me awfully as I failed charges all over the board (misjudging just how far they'd travelled to get to the line). Our opponents are skilled at defensive lines - starting at one table edge and arcing over at a side to form a line interspersed with guns that reveals no flank. If possible, they anchor this end point near a forest and put their guns in - this makes charging them more difficult. Our typical terrain setup means that at the bare minimum, one side has a hill and the other a forest.

Since we can't get to a flank or rear until we've broken through this line, and war machines are all nicely in range of General and BSB to minimise breaking from combat, we need ways to try and even the odds. The closest I've come is running 2 units of dark riders and 1 of harpies towards a couple of machines, and hoping one of them makes it. Today's plan is to use "Steed of Shadows" to fling nobles onto their hills, and at least tie up the shooting a little. Five bolt throwers will be trying to knock out a hole to help with flank exposure. I'm not sure what the Nurgle guy will do (possibly charge forward, distracting and disrupting...)

I've got another game today - though I'll be seriously pitching for a change in the team-up (the Dwarf player refuses to play alongside an 'evil' army though), it's probable that I'll have to face this team again soon, and I'd like to know if anyone else has had success against Empire, Dwarfs, or an unholy combination of the two with Dark Elves and how (other than weighting the misfire dice) one can get a pinch on them. These guys really know their stuff, I'd appreciate any advice.

The first thing I can think of is Harpies. They fly and they skirmish: cannons are not much of a threat to them, but they can annoy the servants for several turns. Or you could take Shades, too, they're equally effective. But I'm afraid I can do nothing else but state the obvious: I'm not much of a tactician and I don't play Dark Elves.

I have tried harpies, but the problem with quick engagement is that the cannons are often twinned with helblasters or organ guns - which can deal very easily with small skirmish units. Cannons are also good if one of them can line up the grapeshot on them. And if the harpies are going for a speedy engagement, they're too far away from the General when it comes to panic tests.

Fast cavalry didn't go too badly today, two units destroyed a cannon and reduced a helstorm to 1 crewman. And Steed-of-Shadowing a noble into a cannon worked too, but couldn't do it more than once.

And even with the cannons removed, their line is pretty impenetrable. Front charges only.

Maybe your focuisng to much on the warmachines. Maybe you should just take units that can get into combat realtivly fast, and that way the warmachines can no longer shoot at you.

Then again this is coming from the dwarf.

Burro Boskov

Multiple small units tend to be one of the few things that works vs warmachines, but it´s really tricky not to get blown to bits.

How big a table are you playing on (it will determine what advice I give)?

6'x4' table. And any advice for punching holes in the line would be helpful too, since there's no exposed flanks the rear is the best bet for aiding combat to the front (which 9/10 times ends badly on it's own). The best idea I can think of is to somehow punch through the warmachines (on general's leadership and re-rolling break tests) and turn around to squeeze infantry on front and back at once.

The gunline is an almost-unstoppable strategy - I can think of few armies that might be able to face it and live (something with lots of stone-throwers, perhaps...?) - though I am entrenched in my dark elf camp for now!

Burro Boskov - I've tried this, although I tend to get the second turn - that's two rounds of shooting before I can get my fastest troops into combat, which weakens/panics/pastes them quite efficiently. Fast units are usually smaller - and lesser armoured - so much easier to wipe out. The best idea is cold one knights, but a helblaster can make short work of those even at 24" nowadays.