First of all, thanks to all those who replied to my "knights of the black grail" post. You opened my eyes to the stream of complaints that would probably have been coming from my opponents if I regularly fielded a "cheesy black knight army." Okay, so for tournies and just regular play, I think I'll stick to my Von Carsteins. Not Army of Sylvania. Just regular Von Carsteins. The reason: I just don't think AOS is as fun to play as the normal vampire count list. With the restrictions on magic and the lack of ghouls (I love these guys), I didn't see the upsides, as i found the grave markers to get very boring as games wore on. Anyway, that aside, this is my usual VC 2k list, let me know what you think.
The Masquerade of Eternal Twilight: Von Carstein Vampires

Characters:
Rasputin Von Carstein, Vampire Count:
-lvl. 3
-sword of might
-ring of the night
-aura of dark majesty
-summon wolves: 346 pts.

Necromancer Kraven:
-lvl. 2
- dispel scroll
-book of arkhan: 150 pts.

Necromancer Seth:
-lvl 2
-cursed book: 145 pts.

Lucius Von Carstein, Vampire Thrall:
-great weapon
-heavy armor
-walking death: 123 pts.

Core:
Skeletons: 23, full command: 209 pts.

Skeletons: 23, standard, musician: 199 pts.

Dire Wolves: 5: 50 pts.

Dire Wolves: 5: 50 pts.

Ghouls: 6: 48 pts.

Ghouls: 6: 48 pts.

Special:
Black Knights: 6, barding, champion: 166 pts.

Black Knights: 6, barding, champion: 166 pts.

Spirit Hosts: 2 bases: 130 pts.

Fell Bats: 4: 80 pts.

Rare:
Banshee: 90 pts.

Total Army: 2000 pts.


A strong magic phase complements this fairly fast VC army, which still retains a strong infantry core. But with the knights, wolves, ghouls, and spirit hosts, I almost always can get a flank charge where and when I want. I wish I could have fit the standard werewolf thrall in here, but I thought the extra combat res. was more important, as I have a small infantry base relitive to other VC lists, and I need it to last long enough for my other units to prevail.

Jeez...24 views and no replies? Come on, people, it can't be that bad. :P

guess people have nothing to complain about :P one thin tho, the count is level 2. level 3 are reserved for lord level vampires ;)

other than that you seem to have everything that defines a good VC army. a couple of blocks of troops, disruption, speed, punch. the list should do well :) it´s a bit of a mix this army, it really isnt that typical horde army and it´s not a cavalry list either, a mix between the two :)

well i think your characters need different magic items and don't use core unit champions,they can't kill anything.You can also not use musicians if you want the points since they are only useful for ties. -_-

And that's how i would equip my characters based on your type:

Rasputin Von Carstein, Vampire Count:
-lvl. 2
-black periapt
-ring of the night
-aura of dark majesty
-wolf form:
-great weapon or additional hand weapon

Necromancer Kraven:
-lvl. 2
- dispel scroll
-book of arkhan

Necromancer Seth:
-lvl 2
-2 Dispel scrolls

Lucius Von Carstein, Vampire Thrall: :wub:
-great weapon or additional hand weapon
-wolf form
-flayed hauberk

You have better magic/antimagic and mobility :fight:

A misconception: skeleton champions aren't there to kill things, they are there to accept and issue challenges.

This character setup, however, is very good. Quite standard. You want to consider it -- Sword of Might is overpriced compared to great weapon.

If i don't use a vampire with the unit why should i want issue a challenge?The opponent will accept it with his champion and his character will smash skeletons anyway so,it's no use :( . And i usually deploy my vampire with the black knights that always have a champion.

To discourage large target flyers and lone characters from charging the unit in the front and killing rank and file. An example: a HE Dragon rider and a chariot combine charges on your unit, with the Dragon in front. Your champion challenges, and prevents the Dragon Prince from killing RnF. This becomes the difference between outnumber or no outnumber. It's really quite obvious.

I agree with what has been said about the sword of might, and I think I'm going with the great weapon. I suppose the wolf form thrall is in the end the best way to go...

As far as the necromancers, I heartily disagree. 3 dispel scrolls? Way too many if you ask me. With 5 dd, I think 1 or two scrolls is enough. I think I'll stick with the cursed book, one of my favorite items.

Derfel i know it's vital for outnumber but dragons are rare to be seen in the battlefield and lone characters must be crazy to charge a unit alone.Whatever...(To Kael Anduar:have you ever played against a magic heavy army such as TK or HE :blink: ?Try it and you'll be swallowed by magic in turn 1 unless, people play different at your country)

Lone characters + other units, naturally. You do all you can to keep models around. Full command is always useful.

Also, rarely doesn't mean never.

5 dice and 2 scrolls are ok, honestly. Being VC, there're tons of spells you can afford to let through because you don't panic. There're many good ways to mage-hunt. And even TK movement magic can be accounted for by some forethought. Over-investing in magic defence leaves a lot of points wasted against non-magic or low-magic armies.

With judicious dispelling and correct play, even 14PD HE monster armies won't swallow you in turn 1. (Besides, they could always miscast or have a bad round of magic.)

Actually, Draco, I have a high elf army and have played with and against a magic heavy variety of said force many times. I understand where you are coming from, but I still disagree. With enough mage hunters, and strategic use of dispel dice, you can turn even the most potent magic phases into minor nusances. Rember, as Derfel, many spells won't matter as much to VC as other armies, and losing a few skeletons is never a big deal. I have attened tournaments with 4 dispel dice and a scroll and have still survived and done well.

I know it depends on dice rolling but i won a TK army 2 times in a single day with my HE (before i sell them to buy WE) when i used Comet of Cassandora and killed both times the Hierophant and a priest on turn 1 :fight: (it could happen to your necromancer?).As for antimagic a spoke generally,not just VC.Also,when i play with my TK i cast more Righteous smiting on my catapults rather than Urgency.Do you think that cavalry armies (like Bretonnia) will be happy to shoot them 4 times per turn?Let's say i'm a heavy magic TK.What will stop the COS?I have killed half of enemy armies in one row.Lastly,what i always say it's a personal experience fron the games i have played,not a guideline.It depends upon the style you prefer to play,i guess... :)

You make good points, but I'm going to stick with the characters I have (perhaps with the execption of removing the sword of might for addnl. hand weapon). And with regards to the comet, remember that the Vampire Count is my general, not either of the necromancers.

surely 5 dispel dice and two scrolls is more than enough, remember magic is always a gamble, so they could easily fail to cast certain spells (such as comet as you seemed to mention) and with the book you easily have enough magic defence IMO, but dont go to heavily on magical offence mind, this is just my view but if you go heavy on magic it's risky (even more so than a skaven army).

hope i helped ^_^

The issue is, if you're not tailoring a list to try and beat an opponent just for one game, then 5-6 dispel dice and 2 scrolls are what you should be looking at for most armies. Exceptions are for armies like Khornate ones, which have about 8 dispel dice to compensate for lack of scrolls (unless they bother to bring a scroll caddy), and for Dorfs -- but even Dorfs have their own version of "scrolls", and they find it hard to go above 5-6 themselves.

Draco, if you're killing a Hierophant on Turn 1 with the Comet, of all things... sorry to say this, but your opponent totally didn't know what he was doing. It's not an indication that HE magic is killer. It's an indication that (1) he didn't know where Hierophants should stand, and (2) he didn't know how to dispel the right spells with the right things. Possibly (3) you were abnormally lucky too, but that's hardly something to make a foolproof plan against.

If you are in the habit of tailoring your list against opponents, well, it's up to you, but personally I think it's pointless to tool up for specific armies only. It can also work against you. I'm playing HE, say, and you think, "Oh, 14PD monster!" and you prepare 7 dispel dice and 4 scrolls. Let's say I guess this. I go "hahaha" and bring a cavalry army with minimal magic. Or I bring an Archmage with the Book of Hoeth. Just think of all the points wasted.

Another thing you need to remember which many people forget is that Warhammer and Warhammer 40k are both tabletop boardgames, and thats it really a boardgame so if you have a list you have took ages on and i sucks dont worry, try again ^_^

still this i IMHO, as i believe many (no one on this site) get too involved in the game and winning then just are obssesed. still if thats you then i apoligise