Ive fought two battles with a steam tank now, one time with it, one time against it. I was quite surprised to see that in both battles its effects were very limited, and both times it got destroyed rather easily.

There are a couple of disadvantages it has:

- Weak artillery. The warmachines the tank can use are downgraded versions of the original pieces of artillery - so downgraded that they lose a lot of their menace.

- Weak in combat. The S6 impact hits arent bad, but if the tank is rolling in from a big distance, the charged unit can simply flee to avoid taking mass hits. If the charge distance is smaller, the number of impact hits is nothing to worry about.
Every "wound" the tank takes counts as a point to CR, so it will seldom break anything, especially not S5+ units.

- Poor manoeverability. If the warmachines are used, the tank becomes very slow. Even if it uses its steam points for movement only, each swivel, be it hardly noticeble, costs 1 steam point. Unlike most other units, it cannot move through forests. And once it has lost a few steam points, its mobility is severly hampered.

- Vulnerable. This was the most surprising. Wounding a steam tank is not hard at all. All you need is some concentrated artillery fire and a few S5+ hits in combat. While this wont destroy the tank, it will be so damaged that it isnt a threat anymore and can easily be finished off.
Not to forget the occasional malfunction the tank will have that might damage itself.


Now I have to admit that in the battles I played, the steam tank faced O&G and Chaos Dwarfs. So in the first case it had Gorks foot, two stone throwers and Grimgork (who I used the first time) against it, in the second earthshakers and death rockets (the Great Taurus was on the other side of the table). Elven races might have more difficulty due to their lower overall strength. On the other hand, they can compensate that by their enhanced mobility. And they can use dragons...


Its too early to draw a conclusion, but it seems to me that the terror some players have of the steam tank is not necessary. Of course its still a good unit which needs to be dealt with. But its certainly not cheesy or overpowered. At least this was my impression.

What do you think?

i have not played with or aginst one yert but have seen a couple of battles with them and i agree with everything you say the opponets wer afraid but the tank got blown up on the 2 turn in each game

i agree with funky compleatly

not overrated

well it´s good to hear that it can be dealt with. I have yet to face a steam tank but a guy in my gaming club has been talking about getting one. was kinda worried about it, but I guess I dont have to :)

maybe he would do best in keeping his warmaschines. he has quite a few :P

i think that it IS INCREDIBLY OVERRATED

It's by no means broken, but I do feel you're making a mistake in writing it off as a completely fair piece. Let me outline what, for me, makes it so strong:

1. To destroy it, you need either powerful artillery or reliable, high-strength attacks. For many armies, these simply aren't available in anything like enough quantity; for many others, they are, but they must rely on having selected the right units, as these abilities are very concentrated. In general play, if an elf player runs up against the Stank, he is often very very screwed: after all, unless he has an Armour of the Gods Swordmaster or a Dragon-rider running about - by no means very common army choices - his chances of actually destroying the blasted thing are practically nil. Elves, Brets, and Skaven all have this problem: that's five armies out of thirteen or so, which is a significant proportion.

2. For 250-400pts, the Stank offers what I call a "game-breaking" combination of abilities: it combines aspects which are usually thought of as a paper-scissors-rock series of strengths and weaknesses. It is generally accepted that heavy missile fire's weakness is poor mobility and vulnerability to fast combat assault. It is generally accepted that kill-heavy combat units' weakness is their reliance on the LOS arc, and their vulnerability to being broken by ranks-and-standard CR. It is generally accepted that unbreakable units make up with morale for what they lack in quality: in other words, that the "Unbreakable" rule generally tallies with a cheap and cheerful tarpit, something that can be disposed of by the enemy troops it engages, but holds them up. The Steam Tank takes all of these virtues, but none of their downsides: while admittedly its missile fire is less powerful than its static kin, it effectively operates outside the implicit rules of the game: it can charge off in any direction without declaring a charge, it never fails a charge, it's practically impossible for troopers to bring down and yet it can't be seen off through CR, it can deploy mobile artillery fire, and so on and so forth. All for 250-400pts. The combat point is probably the most important: when people as intelligent as you, Funky, are reduced to saying

"the charged unit can simply flee to avoid taking mass hits"

So in other words, you can just cede the victory to the Stank from the beginning: because once it gets in there, it will grind about, killing left, right and centre, utterly impervious to the regiment's attacks, and though it may well lose the combat every round it's Unbreakable. That's what gets me. It can destroy pretty much any given regiment in three to four rounds of combat, by virtue of attrition, and if you haven't selected the correct units before the battle even begins, there's absolutely nothing you can do but just "get out of the way". While army selection should be important, I firmly believe that any unit should be able to be managed by any army style, provided you play right.

After following the German election for six hours now with its extremely surprising results that caused many reactions full of polemics and provocations from all sides and that will lead to a lot of exciting debates in the coming days and weeks as it is still unclear who will become the German chancellor, I am very pleased by your post, Chili, because it offers me the chance to continue debating - not about German politics of course, but as you probably know by now I enjoy discussions about Warhammer very much too! ^_^

You are right that it requires powerful artillery and high strength attacks to destroy the Stam Tank. However, I would like to disagree with you that these arent available for many armies or are only seldom choices. Lets take elves aside for a moment. Other armies all have strong warmachines and/or high strength attacks. As these are not only good options to use against the Tank, but serve overall purposes in the army, it is very likely that they are included numerously enough to take care of the Tank. Lets skim quickly through the armies:

Empire, Dwarven armies and Dogs of War have access to cannons, which are used in almost every list, often two or three.

Orcs have Stone throwers, giants and trolls, black orcs with GW's, and wyverns.

I dont know Skaven very well but they have Rat Ogres and, as Ive often heard, strong warmachines.

Chaos armies have plenty of powerful units, especially Beasts.

The same goes for Ogres.

Vampire Counts have Vampires, of course, and Black Knights. Grave Guard with Halberds are also good.

Tomb Kings have Kings and Princes, Bone Giants, Ushabti and Catapults.

Bretonnia has plenty of S5 and S6 cavalry and trebuchets.

Lizzies, as you know best, have a whole variety of units with S5+.

Chaos Dwarves have powerful warmachines, especially the earthshaker (the shaking effect works on the Tank too), and bull centaurs with GW's and the Great Taurus.


These armies have plenty of possibilities to deal with the Tank. Usually its no problem for them to destroy it. Of course there are cases in which units with high strength arent included for fluff or other reasons. But these are unlikely exceptions.

Unlike other armies, Elven armies lack multiple units with high strength. That said, griffons and dragons are not used seldomly. And the S5 cavalry can do noticeble damage to the Tank. And they have units like White Lions or Treemen.
Even bolt throwers can hurt the Tank rather easily and reduce its wounds by 2 or 3 points per shot.

The biggest advantage elves have is their manoeverability. Its no problem to simply avoid the bulky machine. By diverting and fleeing and using forests, they can set up traps and in the right situation charge it from all sides, doing enough damage to seriously hamper the Tank's possibilities.
They might not destroy the Tank during the game, but they can limit it enough to rid it from its menace.

Thanks for the compliment which I can return: I am sure that due to your high skill in Warhammer that you have proven very often here, you know that there is more to fleeing than cowardly running away.
First, in the sentence you quoted I was referring to situations in which the Tank is so far away that the impact hits can hurt. In other cases the impact hits shouldnt be overestimated. If the Tank is closer than 9" it will only do an average of four hits.
If the Tank rolls in from a distance large enough to do significant damage, fleeing doesnt only bring the charged unit in safety. Due to the fact that the Tank doesnt stop after half of the charge movement, it will manoevre itself into a very bad position. If the opposing player moved his units cleverly, in the next round he can probably charge the Tank from all sides.
Fleeing is one of the most effective weapons against the Tank.


The main reason that the Tank is overrated is that 25 hull points combined with tough armour seem to make the it invinceble. It is often neglected that if the Tank only loses a few hull points it rapidly loses its potential dangers. Shoot at it a few times, hit it hard in combat once, and it is dealt with, meaning 300 points the enemy spent are down the drain, apart from having an unmanoeverable terror-causing bulk of metal somewhere on the table.

There are many examples of units that are extremely difficult to be managed by certain army styles. Without going into detail, numerous units of heavy cav are hard to be killed by armies that concentrate on spearmen and bowmen, many infantry armies will struggle against defensive dwarven armies, goblin armies have a tough time when they face a dragon.
The Tank is not more difficult to deal with on average than other models at 300+ points. And I am always glad when my opponents field units that my army isnt prepared for - it increases the challenge! One has to make the best out of the situation and find other ways to deal with the menace, thats when the game gets most fun! ;)

All your points, I find, are valid to a good degree: I am by no means arguing that the Stank is invincible, merely that it is too good for its points cost. What I notice you've touched on least here, though, is the thing's resilience: with 25-29 Hull Points and the Unbreakable rule, it requires an inordinate amount of killage - you put if very well yourself when you said

Now, I would like you to name one other monster-type unit - or in fact any unit barring unbreakable/stubborn troops who also possess the downsides of their rule - who would not be broken in this situation. You have to use four units. You have to set up an elaborate trap. And you have to dummy the Stank into it. But you still won't kill it. That's my objection: while it's by all means manageable, and by no means a roaring behemoth of destruction, in far too many armies it requires a huge diversion of resources just to slow it down, and anyone without cannon batteries is likely to find themselves being slowly ground into a red mush in subsequent rounds of combat when the effects of their flails/lances have worn off, as the Stank, unlike all other chariots, can keep causing impact hits for as long as it wants. Furthermore, even if you do successfully attack and cripple it, say with a Dragon or a Carnosaur - hey, no worries, because unlike other unbreakable units and chariots, the Stank doesn't have to commit itself in combat: it can just reverse out at a leisurely pace and fill your combat character full of Helblaster shot, without a single Break Test involved.

I guess what I'm trying to say that why I feel the Stank is under-costed is that, while it's no Archaon/Kroak/what have you in terms of raw power or kill-potential, it operates outside the conventions at every opportunity: it can do everything, and it can do everything well, and none of the standard strengths and weaknesses apply to it, so it can coast around with impunity, disrupting your plans no end, until you deal with it - which all too often requires half your combat troops or, in the worst case, units which you didn't even select in the first place. It effectively operates in its own semi-detached rules set, but this ability hasn't been costed.

You mention this:

That's on the charge. Continued "Grind" actions can rip the heart out of even supposedly "hard" regiments, while the unit is stuck there, with the choice between either fleeing or standing and taking it (since it's highly unlikely that anyone with S3-4 can even scratch the Stank). It's a classic Stank rule: it breaks all the conventions that its opponents abide by, because it has no reciprocal risk: the Stank can't be hurt, can't be broken, and can choose to disengage whenever it feels like it with absolutely no risks involved. If I charge my Stegadon into your Savage orcs, I have taken a calculated risk: I am bargaining on my Stegadon's kills outweighing your static CR, and if things go against me, my Steggie is in the same boat as you would have been had I won. If I charge my Jungle Swarms into your Savage Orcs, I am fully aware that their purpose as an Unbreakable unit is just to slow you down: that the price I pay for losing those disadvantages is that I am no longer able to win real combats. But if I charge my Stank into your Savage Orcs... well, I can just do some kills and waltz out of there if I don't do enough to break you, and if I do, all the better! The Stank just cherry-picks all the good halves of the WH rules and then sticks on a bunch of minor and disassociated disadvantages, which utterly fail to counterbalance its abilities: the real counbterweight would have been to give it a more realistic price (450-550pts).

You couldnt be more correct in the statement that the Tank requires an inordinate amount of killage. There are two aspects though that have to be taken into regard.

First, despite its large number of hull points and its tough armour, it takes damage surprisingly quickly.
To start with range attacks: A direct hit from a stone thrower does an average of 7 wounds, cannons do 5-6, even bolt throwers do 2. The latter two can even do more in average if they hit soft spots. A simple forked lightning or thunderbolt does 1-2 wounds and a comet 3-4. Gorks foot does 6. I realize these are only two of about a dozen of magic lores, but heavens is used quite often.
One or two wounds may not seem like a lot considering the Tank has 25 hull points. But every single wound it takes will limit its speed and its ability to use warmachines, and will cause the Tank player to carefully consider how many steam dice he uses.

In close combat it is damaged a lot easier. Everything with S5+ can do high damage, because they hit automatically. A unit of six silverhelms or vanilla empire knights will do 4 damage in average. S6 infantry units do 7. So High Elves can take out almost half the Tanks wounds by a combined charge with averagely sized units of White Lions and Silverhelms, severely hampering its possibilities.
Best are units with multiple attacks. There are many of those out there: all ogre base models, some cavalry and infantry, fighter heroes and lords, and of course all large monsters. A bloodthirster does an average of 17 damage, a bone giant with a great weapon can do up to 24 wounds!! But even a unit of three trolls do 7 damage, three ushabti or ogres with GW's do 11.
Pikemen, by the way, who can be used as mercenaries if you expect to face the Tank, also do pretty much damage with all their S4 attacks.

Finally, if one of its warmachines misfires or if the steam dice fall bad, the Tank damages itself. Nothing to rely on of course, but I lost 14 hull points when my cannon misfired once... :unsure:


So we see its not that difficult to bring the Tank down to 10-15 hull points. After that it is not a real danger anymore. It can only generate two or three steam points and risks oversteaming.



Second, on the offensive side the Tank isnt THAT strong. The warmachines are not that great. The impact hits are neither, as I mentioned in my last post. And remember that the Tank can only do one grind per turn, and a grind only does 1d3 S6 hits.


About your point that a unit with S3 or S4 can get stuck in combat: Well, if you let such a unit get into combat with a Tank its your own fault! :P Obviously units like that should avoid it at all costs. And if it happens anyway, there should be enough time to get a support unit into combat before the Tank does too much damage.


I see your point about the Tank being a unit that performs well at many things and is hard to get rid of. But it can be done, and whats most important, it can be done without having to change the whole battle plan and having to ignore other dangers in the enemy army. I think the point cost is fairly reasonable, in fact whenever Ive used it or had it used against me it didnt bring back the points it cost.

but too be honet thats why it is included in the annual and not the main book, because it is a little weird adn unreliable ^_^

I belive it had something to do with Empire beeing one of the first armies to be released in this edition. guess they had to have a bit more time to figure the steamtank out. I belive they even mentioned it somewhere in the back of the book.