My normal armies are undead (both sorts) and Brets, my Sylvanians have a fantastic win record so Im getting a taste of my own medicine.. I'm really getting thrown into the deep end, I know Sylvanians are good and I've never played Ogres before so I have no idea how to use them. My only experience even seeing them is when me as Sylvanians belted them into the dirt.

So any tips on how to beat them and slow all that damn magic down? And what should I take? I'm thinking of maybe saving points and not taking a Tyrant, in fact skimming through the items there wasn't much that appealed to me so I have a bruiser with light armour and iron fist atm. Definitely want as much magic resistance as possible, what else should I take?

Even better, anyone know of any tacticas I could read?
Well, thanks for any replies.

how many points are you playing
obviously you will need at least one butcher, probably with 2 dispel scrolls
a tyrant may not be neccerserry depending on how many points you are playing.
a bruiser can taake on and beat any hero level VC character and possibly give the lord a run for his money

It is 2000 points, sorry I forgot to mention that...

Vampires aren't that easy to beat, I've seen lords belt tyrants into the dirt with ease, though only if the tyrant isn't tooled to beat them, and thralls kill bruisers fairly easily.

I was actually going to forgoe dispel scrolls in place of items that will last the whole battle... What are 2 one use only scrolls going to matter against 4 or 5 turns of 3 grave markers, bound items and the vampire's own magic?

um that may not be entirely true, ive seen a thrall with wolf form + great weapon + flayed hauberk take out bruisers very easily, infact both the bruiser and the thrall have very good and similar stats however the bruiser has the advantage for being tougher and standing longer while the vampire is faster. Of course its also all down to how you equip each of the heros. And a bruiser will get easily slaughtered by a vampire count/ lord, a tyrant might put up a fight but still lose i believe.

down to beating sylvanians......you will need some gnoblar trappers for sure, a hunter maybe very useful with his bolt thrower thing and he can take out any dire wolves however watch out for ghouls.....make your units small as vampire counts rely on combat resolution to win so if you lose combat with a 6 + squad and they run then its going to hurt alot so keep the bulls in smaller regiments, yhetees can be incredibly useful as they are one of the best flanking units in the game.

how i've helped :)

you can smash through his skellies and zombies in CC. you need to watch out for the vampires, the dire wolves, the gouls, the black knights and obviously his magic
can you post some lists so we have some idea what you are taking/facing

I have absolutely no idea what to take, thats why I'm here. ;)

No need to worry about ghouls, Sylvanians can't take them...

I will most likely face a lord and 2 thralls, couple of units of levy, some wolves, grave guard, most likely a banshee and some spirit hosts then maybe a small unit of black knights.

Thats what I'd take anyway, and the list will probably be based off the tactica I wrote..

interesting.
i cant really help you much
units of bulls/ironguts can beat up the skelliees and zombies and grave gurad
you need character with a magic weapon or noblars to take out the banshees or spirit hosts

This is what I just came up with:

Bruiser, iron fist

Hunter, 2 sabers

Butcher, bang stick, dispel scroll (to hit ethereals hopefully)

Butcher, staff of sorcery (this is going to make grave markers very easy to dispel :) )

10 gnoblar trappers (hit the wolves and maybe hurt zombies)

20 gnoblars, groin biter (they're dirt cheap, why not? lol)

7 bulls, second hand weapon, standard (stick the bruiser here, should be able to take out most units head on I hope...)

8 bulls, second hw, champ, standard (once again, with extra attacks I hope to beat units... A 6+ save isn't worth the points IMO)

2X 2 leadbelchers (MSU, they are nasty things if their shooting works.. And will probably be a distraction since my opponent knows their potential)

3 yhetis (if magic fails, hit ethereals, or go for flanks I suppose)

2 gorgers (I've seen these things work, nasty..)


Any good? 1995 points..

this list will need a bit tweeking.....

1. heros are fine
2. now 20 gnoblars will be entirely useless , they will give your opponent free victory points, they will DEFINATELY flee, their worse than goblins, in my opinion useless against sylvanians
3.make your ogre bbull units smaller by breaking the 7 one into, 3 + 4 and the 8 one into 4+4, why ? because you will get more manuverability + if u fail a break or fear test then it will hurt like mad when the big unit flees so keep them small.
4. remember gorgers will be your biggest assessts in this game as they are unbreakable and reign havoc on the undead.
5. and make your lead bleachers for 3 men size and put them on your flanks to guard agains those dire wolves.

apart from that it does look fine, don't worry its okay to have your bruiser and hunter unmagicfied as they aalready have monstrous stats (pun intended).

Fear tests? Lol, don't ogres cause fear so they won't suffer from it?

I made the units big so they would actually win combat against 20+ undead units.. If they are small then they won't be able to win and more will be raised into the unit until my guys flee. MSU though, could work.

Ditching the gnoblars is probably a good idea... I was thinking of maybe getting rid of the hunter too? My friend said they aren't all that effective. Or if hes only going to shoot then ditch the sabers.

well when vsing undead and all IMHO its best to take many bulls in small regiments of 3-5 as undead aren't mainly great fighters and all so bulls will suffice so don't think iron guys as they won't make a difference as bulls will do the same probably.

Now i think you've got not a lot of tactics going on right ? well heres something useful, make all your ogre bulls small regiments ( of 3 or 4) into pairs on on the left on on the back then march em up foraward, then once your in charge range declare your charge from on of them onto the front rank and the other on on the flank then turn the undead into minced meat as i know there is no way of surviving against something like that so thus the regiment will crumble. BTW bellowers are very useful as its easier to rally and tie combat so it all helps -_- o and the whole point of having smaller units is so that you can out manuver your opponent/.

Eh, you're right I have no idea how to use Ogres. Ok, I'll make them small units and see what happens. Thanks for helping.

Unit champions or not? They're a little bit expensive..

well since the units are small then a champion will sink in the points and probably might not be worth it but i dunno it may work, be sure to have a bellower as they are cheap and live savers some times. Remember to watch out for the grave guard and templar knights as well killing blow is the bane of ogres ! :eek:

But aren't ogres larger than man sized so immune to killing blow?

I don't really have the points for unit champions except in one unit, so it will be that one with another unit and the bruiser with another unit as pairs. The knights are nasty, not sure how to tackle them, but grave guard are just more expensive skeletons that can't be raised ie. main targets. :D

I've been playing small games lately and a very handy tactic has been slapping a bruiser with cathayan longsword in with 2 man eaters both with cathayan long swords, I would think with the higher initiative and weapon skill they could handle a unit of knights (made quick work of empire knights), plus at -3 to armour save it's pretty handy. Also the unit is stubborn so you should be holding in any combats you lose.

lol actaully i'm not sure if killing blow works on ogres :mellow:

grave gaurd aren't as easy as they seem !, given the barrow wights banner they will hit everything on 3s + if given a halbert they can plow through the ogres ! they already have better stats then skeletons, ( better armour, ws 3, s 4 to 4 etc. and they will be tough opponents none the less so watch out for them !

Ah fair point, would for example the greyback pelt mean they would be hitting on 4's? Definately would want the charge on those,, bull charge at strength 5 and followed by 12 attacks I'm sure you can get a result, but that's all 'perfect' circumstances I guess.

Nope, they hit on 3's regardless of other modifiers.

I figure ogres have a longer charge range, all I need to do is charge them and I'll wipe the front row at least so they won't be fighting back. And even if they were with full strength, thats 5 attacks from their front rank? 3 hit, 1.5 wound, ogres have 3 wounds each woopdi doo... Undead troops really aren't that dangerous, except for black knights.. They will hurt. And of course the vampires, I'm not even going to try to take down the lord.

I would go with that. I was thinking about the Thundermace (although you aren't taking a lord), it would be funny to see the impact on a unit of skellies - unless you missed!!!!

Hey thanks for helping guys, I won the battle. :D

Flanking definitely is the key, I left the centre of the board completely empty to force his general to deploy on a flank so his leadership and marching ability didn't spread as far, which worked well. My first spell cast was a miscast :( I've come to the conclusion that ogre magic sucks, but defensively I came out very well. He rolled bad spells, curse of years and hand of dust, then had no bound items so I stopped grave markers almost all the time. Pairing up the small units of ogres was good, one hit the front while the other flanked, and gorgers are nasty as hell. I've played as Sylvanians a fair bit, and today was the first time I've seen a Vampire lord fall, I won combat by 8 or something and he crumbled.

I'll definatley keep this info in mind.

Ogre magic seems to have little impact if any and with the new 'FAQ' dispel scrolls will have a bigger effect on magic options if it's official, I think it's a case of minimal magic defence from what I see from most people. I think for what you pay at least you get a bit of defence plus someone who can dish out a fair bit in combat, I'm awaiting my first 3000-4000 battle and will just go to town on magic for the sake of it I think!

I've played 3k heavy magic, 18 power dice or something, just watch out for miscasts and remember for the cost of it magic usually doesn't kill a huge amount.. This was against heavy magic though (full magic battle) so it may be just that they had above average resistance..

The butchers can dish out death in combat, but I still heald mine back because I didn't want to risk them. The one with the staff of sorcery is the one who miscast and couldn't cast for the whole battle, but that staff was essential for me to stop grave markers so I put him at the back of my deployment zone and just left him there. The other one hung around my hunter and leadbelchers most of the time.

Hi guys, i'm new at this forum. I try to play as most as I can so i'm no newbie.

Some might be against this but here is my biggest opinion on building a unit.

A tyran is great to have because of his leadership, wounds, attacks, WS, str and toughness. I would always use a thundermace, wyrdstone talisman for wardsaves.

If ever you use 2 butchers, give one of them 2 dispell scrolls and the other, the hellheart arcane item. This (one use only) item will royaly screw up a magic phase for your opponent. Any doubles, even 6's are miscast's and fron the ogre miscast sheet.

I personaly don't like bulls because WS 3, need 4's to hit then 3-4 to wound plus their leadership is 7. So 3 bulls using basic clubs (-1 armour save) to protect a flank is good enough for me.

I would take 2 units of 8 ironguts, warbanner, champion, musician. Why? out number, 1 rank, 1 banner and warbanner. So your looking at 4pts in combat resolution. Without counting if you get impact hits from a bull charge and the rest in wounds. yes... I would need 4 to hit but then, 2+ to wound.

1 unit of 20 gnobs for protecting the flank.

2 units of 3 leadbelchers... procting flanks or placing them in the middle in case you need to stand and shoot.

Yes, a scrapluncha if your good with mesurements.. then again misfire does not help but you get killing blows on this puppy !!

I say not to use too much characters because it takes alot of points.

Yethees's are okay but I would not use them to fight but more to do the cat and mouse game on the flank.