Hello,
I am new to this forum and warhammer fantasy, this is my third attempt at an army list. I tried to build a set of hard core troops surrounded by squads of hard hitting fast and flexable special troops. I planned to stick the count in my skeleton unit with spears, and both necromancers in the other skeleton units. The thrall hunts chariots, and mages and I would tuck my banshees in just behind my skeletons to scream at anything in combat. I figure my count will be really hard to kill with the ring surround by skeletons, and while protected he will be able to churn out tons of bony warriors. If it is cheesy, beardy, or just hopless please let me know.
Thanks for your opinions.

Lords/Heroes
Vampire Count: Lvl 2 wizard, great weapon, the Carstien ring (340)
Vampire Thrall: heavy armor, great weapon, flayed hauberk, wolf form (138)
Necromancer: Lvl 2 wizard, Book of Arkhan,dispel scroll (150)
Necromancer: Lvl 2 wizard, staff of damnation, biting blade (150)
Core
19 Skeletons: full command, spears (197)
19 Skeletons: full command (177)
19 Skeletons: full command (177)
10 ghouls (80)
12 dire wolves (120)
special
4 fell bats (80)
4 spirit hosts (260)
8 black knights: full command (224)
8 black knights: full command (224)
rare
banshee (90)
banshee (90)

Greetings fellow vampire counts player, welcome to the warhammer palace forums ! hope your stay here will be most surreal :lol: Right then onto the list:

1. Your heros seem to be fine except for your vampire count, the carstein ring is a real blow off , u got get 100pts worth of magic items and such and make them FAR better than the ring, i recomend aura of dark majesty and walking death is a must so that combat resolution and you can march with your army, the rest is up to you.

2. your ghouls unit would be very useless being 10 strong as the psychological factor comes into place and they will obviously run if they lose combat and such so you will lose tones of points and models, i believe u should split it into 2 units of 5 as then you won't lose that much points.

3. for yoru black knights, i believe u ought to make them 10 men strong as being 8 men they will lose their rank bonus if they even take 1 casualty from shooting and etc. so make them 10 so that not only will they last longer in cc but you will get a good old rank bonus

apart from that the list seems fine. Have fun with it.

Why does the thrall have the flayed hauberk and Heavy armour?

I have the heavy armor and the flayed hauberk on the thrall to give him a defense of sorts, he is fast and hits real hard, but I am sure he will take some incoming fire, or return hits in close combat. T 4 +4 armor seems like a decent defense....

I did drool over the carstien powers, dark majesty seems like the best thing for undead since embalming fluid and summon wolves has possibilities. I picked the carstien ring because it seems like a solid defense, and I am trying to avoid the terrible crumbly consequences of losing your mage-general. Am I being paranoid ?

im sorry yes you are beng paranoid, the carstein ring is not worth what it does, vampires are definately THE TOUGHEST things in warhammer fantasy, pop em in a unit of skeletons or zombies and they are unstoppable and will break combat resolution easily, k this is a good configuration of a voncarstein vampire count

Crown of the damned, aura of dark majesty, walking death , it not only gives your vampire his nifty ward save but also helps the army out which is very important.

Right your thrall just drop the heavy armour, its useless and wont help , there are about 0.01 % chance u will fight malkith or some enemy that reduces the effects of magic items so drop the heavy armour and keep the flayed hauberk.

oh and flayed hauberk confers 1 + armour save so...... when rolling armour saves all u need is a 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 to pass the armour save, that is the reason why the flayed hauberk is good and has 1 + armour save ;)

and to prove my point that vampires are tough this is what will normally happen =
1. most units of strength of 3 thus need a 5 to wound a toughness 4 vampire and a 6 to wound a toughness 6 vampires

oh and another thing what makes vampires is special is that we can heal them with invocation of nehek :D

Welcome to the site! A little hint for future army list postings: stick in the total points value of the army, to save us reaching for our calculators.

Overall, the army looks strong: it has plenty of supporting troops for each available phase, which I like, with a nice beefy infantry core and a vicious cavalry assault to contend with. It strikes me as balanced and competetive, which is sometimes no easy feat.

On the heavy armour and flayed hauberk thing: I think what Paymaster's talking about is that you can't have both: the Flayed Hauberk is not only a suit of armour in its own right (hence stopping you wearing a suit of Heavy Armour), but also specifically states that the 1+ save it grants cannot be improved by any means.

I'd be tempted to split the Wolves into two units of six: as fast cav, they can never claim rank bonuses, and you will probably find two units more manouvreable and more powerful, as you will then be able to pull off multiple flank and rear charges. And if they get involved in the same combat, you still have the same Fear-causing unit strength - not something I'd worry about in such a numbers-heavy army as this, though. Similarly, two units of five ghouls may do you more favours than one unit of ten, as they'll be able to claim more charge bonuses (while they don't negate ranks, skirmishers are still handy in that if they are US5 they give you CR bonuses for flank and rear charges) and more efficiently hunt enemy mages and war machines, as they'll be able to multitask in a dual-unit format whereas a single unit can only take on one task at a time. And again, if you're looking for a flurry of attacks, you can still achieve that simply by throwing both units into the same target.

Finally, I would say your magic item selection is a bit suspect in places: namely, the biting blade on the necromancer! Giving a mage a magic weapon is always going to be a waste of points, as if they're in cc against anything barring perhaps a lone skink (though even that might be pushing it...), then you've already failed and your expensive mage is almost certainly going to end the turn as a red stain on the floor. That's why combat mages (Vampires, Greater Daemons) or mages tougher than your average gnat (Slann) are so expensive. Far better to save the points, so that should your necromancer get into combat you give away fewer VPs to the enemy: you could put those 15pts - plus the points from the redundant armour on your thrall - into buying more ghouls! Two units of 6 would be even tastier than two units of 5.

Best of luck with the list: a final note would be that, although this army is fantastic as a basis which can be cut down and built up for varying points values, the 'standard' points value for fantasy armies is more 2000pts: I would aim to collect a 2000pt army myself before launching in at quite this level of expense (there are a lot of models in that list, after all... and GW's prices aren't exactly bargain-basement...).

Hope I've helped,
LCP

:blink: gosh... I was so far off on the rules for the flayed hbrk its not even funny.

I see what you are saying about the necromancer, and I like the ideas for the ghouls. Will dividing the wolves increase their vulnerability to missile fire ?

I thought the crown of the damned was interesting for its ward save, but I dislike the stupidity side effect, would a ring of the night be better ?

Putting it all together...

***
Vampire Count: Lvl 2 wizard, great weapon, Aura of Dark Majesty, Walking Death, Ring of the Night (336)

Vampire Thrall: great weapon, flayed hauberk, wolf form (134)

Necromancer: Lvl 2 wizard, Book of Arkhan, dispel scroll (150)

Necromancer: Lvl 2 wizard, Black Periapt, dispel scroll (140)

19 Skeletons: full command, light armour (215)
19 Skeletons: full command, light armour (215)
20 Zombies: standard, musician (135)

5 ghouls (40)
5 ghouls (40)

5 wolves (50)
5 wolves (50)

4 fell bats (80)
3 spirit hosts (195)
10 black knights: full command, barding (290)
6 black knights: full command, barding, War Banner (215)

Total: 1995pts

***

This is what a truly optimized list might look like. I don't like so many Knights, but it's precisely because they're so awesome. A bit much for anyone to face.

Once you've gotten more used to the whole game, I recommend you try out a Vampire BSB. That's slightly more advanced stuff, though, and you needn't worry about it yet. Just try to get the basics right first - stuff like rules, item descriptions, game mechanics, etc.

Have fun.

Dividing the wolves would make them more vulnerable to missile fire if they were living troops: as it is, Dire Wolves are undead, so do not take Panic tests: since the key weakness of splitting your troops is absolutely irrelevant (namely, that the number of casualties needed for a volley to force a panic check is reduced), splitting your dire wolves actually strengthens them against shooting in this instance, as your opponent now has to split his fire.

now that list looks very good indeed darfel ^_^ seems like you´ve squeezed in the best of all elements.

and Akuma: yes, they will be more vulnerable to missile fire but now he has TWO units to worry about, he has to split his fire. by having one big unit is making it easier for the opponent. same goes with ghouls :) this means you have 4 units and this will take some time for the opponent to take care of, oh and the ghouls are -1 to hit cos of beeing skirmish ^_^ even sweeter.

good luck with the army and welcome to the palace :)

One last thing, I was reading in the big red book about close combat. I seem to remember it mentioned that cavalry units don't get a rank bonus. If this is true wouldn't it be best to split my knights like my wolves ?

Thanks for putting up with my NooBness

I belive that only effects light cavarly Akuma and doesnt effect youre nights.
Just too add to whats been said the splittign of the wolfs is an idea for several reasons 1 you have more manouvabillity 2 you have more units to flank with
and 3 wiht youre wolfs split up it emans if anyhting theyll be tkaing less fire indualvidgly(think i spelt right) due the fact that there is 1 more unit therefore youre oppeoent has, more units to fire his nice aritllery and archers at.
As well seening as youre new sos about the typing if u need a translator i daresay one of the other memebrs will translate.
ANd welcome. :clap:

Dreg is right (Ah! It hurts to say that) - only Fast Cavalry cannot claim rank bonuses. Black Knights are Heavy Cavalry, so you're alright there.

:huh: Wow so how important is it to give my knights enough numbers to get a lasting rank bonus ? If I drop one banshee I can have two units of ten, of should I just go all out and combine them into one massed unit of sixteen ?
To help my limited understanding would the ranks would be more of a factor if my knights got charged ? Because str 6 with killing blow seems pretty overwhelming. How important is a magic banner?

Here is the logic behind my structuring of the Knights in the list I just gave you.

Heavy Cavalry ideally come in the following unit sizes: 5, 6, 10, 12. More than 12 and you're being ridiculous - it does work in some cases, but you're being ridiculous.

8 is possibly the worst number because of the law of diminishing returns and the low marginal benefit compared to the marginal cost. Explanation: You pay a lot for that extra +1 rank bonus, which is very easily knocked off by losing just one model to shooting or magic. Also, a frontage of 4 weakens that unit's hitting power. So all in all, a 4x2 block of heavy cavalry is decidedly sub-optimal.

So 10 more or less does it, and with 5 behind its stamina is increased significantly, so that it maintains high US - something a block of 8 fails to do well enough, too. You probably won't maintain that rank bonus, since the unit is a high-priority target, but you're more likely to maintain outnumber and rank bonus, and you hit harder. 12 is if you really want to be sure.

5 or 6 are small support units. 6 is actually the best frontage for cavalry, for most enemies - against an enemy with base size 25mm, you get all 6 in easily (since cavalry bases are in fact 23.5mm). Against 20mm, you still get 5 in. 6 is for stamina against shooting/magic. However, units of 5 are cheaper. So there's a good reason to take either size.

Why the unit of 6 takes the magic banner: the same reason why 6 Empire Knights or Cold One Knights take the War Banner as well. That unit becomes very tough with the War Banner in terms of static CR - it helps to negate outnumber, or high ground. The banner is there to negate enemy banners. After that it's down to casualties. Pick your fights, of course - you still can't go against the full 5 from ranked infantry blocks, but you can handle a lot of other units better with this setup.