This is my first Empire list and I haven't got the book, so don't be brutal.... :P

The Blackpowder Boys

Wizard, level 1, 2 x dispell scroll: 110

Captain, great weapon, barbed warhorse, full plate armour, shield: 67

Captain, great weapon, full plate armour, shield: 55

10 hand gunners: 80

10 hand gunners: 80

10 hand gunners: 80

10 hand gunners: 80

20 swordsmen, griffon standard, full command, light armour, shields: 215

20 swordsmen, musician, standard, light armour, shields: 155

Knights Panther: full plate armour, sheild, lances, musician, standard: 139

Knights Panther: full plate armour, sheild, lances, musician, standard: 139

Great Cannon: 100

Great Cannon: 100

5 Pistoliers: 95

Total: 1495
Dispell dice: 3 + 2 scrolls
Power dice: 3

I'm not realy sure on the characters, so any good magic item combinations or advice is esspecially welcome there. I assumed you could use full plate armour on foot, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

Cheers,

Shaargor.

Considering you dont have the book, the list isnt bad. There are a few things though that could be changed.

1) The detachment rule is a great thing that really upgrades Empire infantry. Instead of using so many loose units of handgunners, make them detachments of the swordmen. Also some fighter detachments (best halberdiers or free company) would be good for flanking.

2) The loose handgunner units you keep, Id increase in size. 10 just wont be hitting enough to do noticeble damage. 12 is minimum, 16 is preferable.

3) You may only use a magic banner (up to 50 pts) on a core unit if an elector count is your general. So in sub 2.000 point battles that means no griffon standard for swordsmen.

4) I doubt the Captain's warhorse is barbed, that would look quite weird.

5) Yes, you can use full plate armour on foot. Greatswords carry it as standard.


About magic item combinations: Yes, Empire has fairly decent magic items. The magic item selection gets especially important though for your lord level choices. Elector Counts are best given protection, like that 4+ ward save, Grand Masters do well with increased fighting power.
For captains I think that full plate and greatswords are fine, though opinions may differ here. I feel the basic profile of captains is just not good enough to waste loads of points for magic items on them and increase their point cost drastically to gain a minor improvement.

What you might want to consider though is to mount the one captain on a pegasus instead of on a horse. For only a bit more than 100 points he is dead cheap, considering everything he can do. Note, im a bit biased on this one, I tried it out for the first time recently and the pegasus rider turned out to be a game-winner. For further information, look here and here.

Cheers. Yes I did want 2 detachments, but I found points cost prevented that. Huntsmen may be some use to delay the enemy a bit allowing more shots. I agree with you on the Empire captains, but even expencive characters don't need magic items most of the time. They're good enough to have a simple great weapon and do just as well with it as they would with a 50 point blade.
The griffon standard is a blow though.

So with the points raised from taking off the griffon standard and having 2 units of 16 hand gunners I think I'll get some detachments and mount my Captain on a griffon. If I have some points after that I may get some huntsmen, but they are not really needed when you have a griffon.

Also, I do believe I am only allowed 1 unit of knights panther. Correct?

The Blackpowder Boys

Wizard, level 1, 2 x dispell scroll: 110

Captain, great weapon, barbed warhorse, full plate armour: 83

Captain, great weapon, full plate armour: 69

15 hand gunners: 120

15 hand gunners: 120

10 Free company (detachment): 50

10 Free company (detachment): 50

20 swordsmen, full command, light armour, shields: 155

20 swordsmen, musician, standard, light armour, shields: 155

5 Knights Panther: full plate armour, sheild, lances, musician, standard: 139

5 Knights Reiksguard: full plate armour, sheild, lances, musician, standard: 139

Great Cannon: 100

Great Cannon: 100

5 Pistoliers: 95

Total: 1498
Dispell dice: 3 + 2 scrolls
Power dice: 3

That's the new list, the knights panther thing hasn't been adressed, but I'm not sure what to do, any one got any help on that?

are you sure that a griffon costs only 50p? in that case they are very cheap. looks good, but I would like to see that one of the knight units would be inner circle ones. :)

I think they cost 200, I meant a pegasus. I think my heros costs more, 71 points I think. So to get them I'll have to take away the pegasus. Damn..... :(

1) i Would take a champion and muscian in the empire pistoliers and give the champ a repeater pistol, this will give you 2 extra attacks to the normal 1 and the musician can help them rally after voluntarily fleeing. Don't use pistoliers for shooting, they are best at combat.

2) you only have 3 dispel dice and 2 scrolls, in nearly evry army you verse this will not be enough and you will have probably used up the scrolls by the second or third turn.

3) Make the captain on foot a bsb for 25 extra points your units can re- roll break tests and the captain still gets full plate but no great wep, he can take a magic sword or save if you dont give him a magic standard.

4) i would make 1 free comapny and 1 handgunner unit a detachment to each swordsmen unit.

5) I would maybe take a unit of knights of the inner circle, for a few extra points they get +1 str with is highly useful against heavy infantary giving a -3 save and wounding even t4 things on 2 and t5 on 3 which is very useful

6) Take a full command for both units of swordsmen as they are your main blocks of infantary and need the command to help them in combat.

7) also if your not going to make the handgunners a detachment split them into units of 10 as you can split your fire more and can take 3 marksmen with hochland long rifles, which are great for character hunting. Especially undead general hunting. You will have less fire power in each unit but combined you will have just as much but the ability to split your fire 3 ways instead of 2.

8) use your knights in sync with the other knights and pistoliers getting a front charge with the unit with the captain in (make them inner circle) and a flank charge from the other knights and 1 from the pistoliers, this is an ideal situation if you can do this, if not front charge with both knight units.

9) NEVER, and i repeat NEVER charge into the front of any infantary unit with pistoliers always try and flank them, and always try and get in half charge range with your pistoliers to avoid a stand and shoot ( but keep out of LOS)

This is my advice anyway hope it helps

:thumb: SNOTLINGZ :thumb:

About the Knightly orders, there is no difference in rules between the different orders, except for the Knights of the White Wolf. Thats why I dont think there is a limitation that you may only take one unit of each order, because in gaming terms it doesnt make a difference if they are Knights Panther or if they belong to another order.
Picking orders for the knights is only a fluff matter.

Ahh, I had my handgunners split on the first list, but then due to advice from other members I merged them.

Umm, I'm almost certain pistoliers can't have a musician. And the champion would cost too much for the benefits I'd get from him.

The list is not designed to be heavy on magic defence, I can use the dispell dice to try to stop 1 spell per turn and if necessary I can use one of my scrolls. Yes, it's not supurb, but I designed the list so I didn't spend loads on magic, but more on shooting and combat.

As for the knights, one of them is now reiksguard.

In regard to Snotlingz' post:


1) Pistoliers can only take champions. At first I wanted to suggest taking one too, as they are rather good with their upgrades, but that also makes them expensive. In fact, their cost-efficiancy is questionable, especially in a small army like this where points are limited.


2) The usual scroll caddy is included, which is perfectly fine for an army this size that shouldnt go magic heavy.


3) While a BSB generally isnt a bad idea for empire, this also makes the captain extraordinarily weak and will almost certainly lead to your opponent getting 125 Vp more (100 for the BSB, 25 for the upgrade).


4) Yeah, detachments are really cool. I doubt the points will let Shaargor take two detachments per main unit though.


5) It depends on what they are there for. If their main purpose is flanking, then they are fine as it is, one could even drop the musician and standard (and perhaps include a champion). If they are meant to charge head on, Inner Circle wouldnt hurt (especially against T4 armies). Though in this case only five knights in the unit will probably not be enough, have they Inner Circle or not.


6) I agree, though mainly for fluff purposes. I always take full command on big infantry blocks. However, it is questionable if a swordsman champion (effectively one S3 attack more in combat) really earns back the points he costed.


7) To this I definitely disagree. Unlike Elves, Humans suffer under the problem of missing their targets constantly when shooting. The only way to compensate this is to make the missile units larger and concentrate the fire power. Concentrating missile fire is a lot harder with several units, especially with 24" ranged handguns. Larger units are also more resilant against panic tests. Handgunners are still quite cheap, so taking larger units can easily be done without clogging up too many points.
About the Hochland Rifles, again Id say no. Not that they are useless, but usually theres only a 25-33% chance to score a wound (not taking armour saves into consideration). Against undead this wont help much, because the wounds can easily be healed. Against Dwarves, the armour will be too thick to do anything. Against Elves it might be considerable. But remember, we are paying 25 points for each marksman. Take him on both units and thats 50 points. This is definitely a luxury Id save for larger battles or for battles in which shooting plays a larger role. For 50 points Id get a pegasus ten times before I get two Hochlands.


8) Agree, though only foolish or unexperienced enemies will let themselves be charged by the knights in the front and the pistoliers in the flank at the same time.

Pistoliers are very vulnerable and fail panic tests easily, try to let them gallop over the battle field in a way that your opponent can target them with as least units (and mages) as possible.


9) Agree again, though considering pistoliers are light cav, this is no big secret.


So it looks like Snotlingz and me have different opinions in quite a few matters. Thats what these threads are there for! Take what you want out of it, and more important, find out which options serve your personal taste and your style of play.

Thanks for all your help guys. By the way would another great cannon be better than the pistoliers? In the lack of pistolier models I tryed another cannon and they basically blew his whole army to kingdom come.

Abusive maybe, but effective yes.

IMO cannons are overestimated and often dont bring in the points they cost. When they hit they are devastating, especially against cavalry, or even more so characters riding on monsters. But the fact that their chance of misfiring is 33% is a real bummer. And even if they dont misfire, bad rolling with the artillery dice can prevent the cannon ball from hitting the target effectively.


Pistoliers on the other hand are a great unit! They are fast and very versatile, and extremely strong on charge for light cav. That said, they are very vulnerable, and with LD7 and no musician its hard to rally them once they panic. But when used wisely, they usually perform very well.

I think that the pistoliers fit your list better. First, you already have 2 cannons. Second, the pistoliers are a good support for the knight units, which are a bit weak (due to their small size) on their own.

Funky the elf is a groove master. I am the evil trojan bunny. I will torment you night and day about how bad this site is. You are all a bunch of losers. Warhammer is crap.

Do you have anything better to do Trojan? Do you have a life to get on with? Or do you wish to carry on trying to torment us?

Don't worry about Trojan Bunny anymore, guys. He's been warned, his ability to post taken away, and I'd imagine he'll be banned as soon as an Admin comes here. If he does happen to PM anyone with more of the same, let me or another mod know, alright?

His posts will be deleted as soon as action is taken, so things'll be back to normal soon. ;)

Luc_Arkhame Edit: Text Removed

check the noobfinders also.he has been really irritating.check empire page.