I have finally come to the conclusion that I am either not using my chariots right or they are the most over-rated unit in the TK army. I have tried a TK in basic skellies, TG, chariots, and independantly and each non-chariot option has produced better results for the point value. Maybe Im overestimating the power for a TK in a UNIT of chariots but besides Settra I think a TK/TP is better on foot.

What Im getting around to is I want to know peoples opinions on the whole chariot thing since I will be ordering some more TK in the near future (no local hobby shop within 70 miles) and as of right now I think Im leaning towards just about anything but chariots. I think that an all TK/TP army without chariots can be very effective and based on peoples reaction to this will decide what I buy. Any opinions would be a great help because that one blue moon is coming about and Im going to drop some well deserved cash on warhammer.

Thanks

-Later

The following is a personal opinion:i don't use them because i usually have a heavy cavalry army to face but against armies that have infantry or low armour saves they rock!Against Skaven with the mirage standard i think that will be the only unit that will always work.3-4 with a chariot for your fighter character are more than enough. :)

I agree that a king in a chariot is not a good idea and that he is better of on foot, for one there is to much at risk(S7) for such an expensive character to be in a chariot. A prince how ever is good when in a chariot, he has the power to trasform a unit that IMO is only meant for flanking and suport into an hard hitting unit, make sure to give him the chariot of fire.

Chariot of fire is good, thats why the king works on one. He still has lots of points for good stuff.

The chariots may not be match winners but they are very good, I always take a couple of units of them. Hitting from the front they do well, as fast cavalry they can get to flanks without a huge amount of difficulty and that rocks.

I have to say I was really dissapointed in the TK chariots when I first saw the rules for them in my friends army book. D3 impact hits really sucks, and it doesn't matter you can take a unit of them, as they have the same frontage as a normal d6 impact hits chariot.

Arn't they only str4 as well? At least their cheap but still, I just think they should have been much better. Maybe two classes of chariots would have been better? Normal chariots and light chariots with fast cav rules and can form units.

They are S5.

I dont think they are bad actually. When they hit the enemy, they really hurt. 3 x D3 impact hits will result in an average of 6 hits. That plus 3 S4 attack and 9 S3 attacks. And that for 120 points, a real bargain!

The problem is that they are so vulnerable. With T4, 3 wounds and a 6+AS they dont last long against enemy missile fire, even bowmen can cause serious damage.
However, there are ways to make this less a problem. The banner that makes them harder to target by missile and gives them a ward save against warmachines is the best example. Besides, the chariots can be healed back if some are destroyed.
And the enemy cant use all his shooting on them, as he will also want to shoot at the cav, ushabtis etc.

All in all, I think chariots are very cheap for what they do. One shouldnt expect them to be game winners. But at 40 points each, how could they?

Nope, its S4.

thats a 5+.

But even with S4 its a good unit to have.

Oh, seems like I got some things mixed up there.... :rolleyes:


The AS I thought was 6+ because a character in a light chariot only gets a +1 to his AS. You are right though, the chariot's AS is still 5+.


About the strength, to be honest, I didnt know that it is only 4, I had assumed that it is 5 like all chariots. Having looked at the army book I noticed that it is really only 4. I havent had my TK army for a long time and fought no more than 5 battles up to now. I did always play with S5 though.

Having seen that the S is only 4, I must take some of my praisings back. S4 or 5 is a great difference. Having only S4 means that the D3 impact hits each will cause much less damage.

The chariots are still rather cheap at 40 points each. But I wouldnt consider them "a real bargain" like I did in my last post.


Anyway, thanks for clarifying this! -_-

The scariest thing for me about chariots is their Fast Cav ability, twinned with incantations. I wouldn't expect them to triumph head-on: even with a sweet combat character that's risky - but their biggest advantage is that ability to swing round your flank and then magically charge in on the same turn. They have a seriously hurty charge, even for tough or well armoured troops, and if you have the banner that makes them all hit on 3s, or a nice combat character, or both, it is even nastier. The scary thing is simply the huge amount of combat res they will rack up, with high kills, flank, banner, probably outnumbering and maybe some magical top-up CR as well, compared to your opponent's... uh... banner. They can break practically any infantry unit in the game, provided they are used intelligently: like most light cavalry, they are not suited for frontal charges. Unlike most light cavalry, however, they have a lethal impact :).

I would personally always put a Prince in there, probably with a GW and the Chariot of Fire. Why? Well, the unit needs some armour-opening Strength, and he provides it, and the Chariot of Fire provides an extra 1-4 impact hits, which is not to be sniffed at, so suddenly your impact goes from dangerous to practically irresistable, especially if you have the hit-on-3s banner. More importantly, however, the Prince makes sure you will ALWAYS have that all-important incantation to slam yourself into a flank or rear. These kind of units would probably work best in pairs, one with a King, one with a Prince: that leaves you space for the practically mandatory two Liches, but gives your enemy a lot to worry about, and gives you a little safety margin: if one unit does get stranded or pinned, you have another to work with, and if the enemy manages to dispel the first flank impel attack, you have at least two more! (if you do the Prince's one first, you can try to impel the King's unit, and then if they dispel that too, since the King can cast twice, you can impel again; if you do the King's one first, and they dispel that, then you can impel yourself in again with the King's unit and then do the Prince's. With an intelligent order of casting, you should be able to ensure that both impels get off, especially if you soak some of their dice with less crucial Liche Priest spells beforehand, or, even better, get your Liche Priests in range of your chariot units, and have a hideously huge number of potential impels to use on those flank charges).

I think you have to do the princes first then the kings and then the liche's stuff.

I have had experience with fast cav in other armies and I dont think the fast cav. rules really helps here except to get around terrain and a few rare occasions. It hardly has effected anything except once(I went between two units to smash a unit in the back instead of the hard hitters up front. Without the march ability I think fast cav in TK is non-existent. The best use I have found is by using Settra so that they can actually be a unit with rank bonuses and stuff and its still not worth it.

I know I seem like Im ranting but I'm very unsatisfied with the chariots. I love the TK army and everyone at my local gaming shop(before it closed:() said that this was an amazing new thing. I just don't see it.

Aye, the not being able to march thing is a bit of a bummer, but incantations can cancel that out: you can use your incantations to move a full 16", even when within 8" of the enemy! True, you may not be getting yourself into combat with that incantation, but what kind of a position is your enemy going to be in when he ends up with chariot squads behind him and the unbreakable TK infantry in front?

Erm... No chariots can march, even living ones.

Now that I think about it around 50% of the time my chariots charge they seem to bounce off and not route the unit, even with a King. But that is due to very bad dice rolls... Still, opponents find them very scary and will often overlook other things to target your chariots or avoid them.

I find a couple of units of chariots to be mandatory and a nice addition to my army. Plus as mentioned they aren't really that expensive.

rm... No chariots can march, even living ones.[QUOTE]
Who said tey could?

Well the march thing I said was more in regards to regular fast cav and how their ability to march makes them better than our ability since magic can be a little ineffective at times(even TK's), but Lord has a point about the ability to magic them when they are near the enemy but that really only worked once but when it did...Whew!

I have another questions then since Im going to buy another battalion. How many chariots do I need to be able to get rank bonuses when I use Settra? If its 4 then I think I may try an uber unit of Settra and 10 chariots for sh*ts and giggles, since I think he take up two spaces.

-Later

No TK undead can march. Nothing.

Agree 100% with chilli. TP with GW, chariot of fire, 3 chariots and standard of undying legion= killer unit. Fairly cheap as well.

This unit is fast cav, T4 and has 3 wounds/chariot. It deals out on average:
10 S4 HITS
11 S3 attacks
3 S4 attacks
3 S6 attacks
Plus CR from yor standard and possible outnumber, possible flank>> not may units can stand up to this.

With smiting this gives:
10 S4 hits
22 S3 attacks!!
6 S4 attacks
4 S6 attacks

Basically flank, flank flank (esp with incantations) and avoid anything with armour- ie 2+/3+ save or less. :D

Maybe I misinterpreted it, but since the topic was about chariots I assumed thats what he was talking about.

Can chariots even get rank bonuses no matter how many you have? I thought since they were fast cavalry they couldn't. Otherwise I would try fielding them in huge units to get rank and outnumber, no one could stand up to that. :D

I believe you can since having Settra in the unit makes them 'normal'. I have considered making a huge unit with an expensive banner just to be an idiot.

The topic was about how effective the chariots really are because I have lost my faith in them some.

Time for me to bring in my opinion.

Ok, fisrt lets compare them to other races chariots.

Ours can form units, are cheaper (per chariot) , can be magiced , but hit less hard.
They can also become core, and have command and chars in them.

As you can see, I believe we got much more advantages than disadvantages here.


Lets just say that we buy as small unit of 3 chariots, withhout any command.
That makes 120 points.

This comes out on 6 automatic S4, 3 ws3 S4, 3 ws3 S3, 6 ws2 S3. (on average)
Well, that's a lot of attacks eh!!

If you add a tomb prince with a chariot, WG and chariot of fire to this, you get 1 big killer unit!.

All in all, I believe chariots are really worth the cost.

Zephyro