Ok so it's inspired by a topic over on Bugmans; but the question stands. Are miners worth it?

Now, I've never taken Miners * but I see their uses; and drawbacks. I'll give my thoughts on their uses first.

Most popular uses I know of are

* War Machine Hunting
* Flank Molesting

WM hunting would suit them better I'd assume, they can appear on any table edge so that to start would worry your opponent. A full ranked GW toting dwarf unit appearing behind your precious WMs isn't something most people would like to see, so ok they can't charge that turn but they can still move; and marching 6" will most likely get them in a prime position to charge next turn. Now this doesn't sound good does it, a unit of 10+ dwarfs waiting in front of artillery. Admittedly it seems like a waste, but you have to see this from the opponents perspective. They now have a choice, do they turn to face the new threat and thus leaving one less WM to slam your army or do they ignore them and get charged? Then how many WMs do they use to fire upon them, a BT would kill 2-3 (depending on unit size) a ST risks bad scatter, a cannon stands the better chance with a grape shot. But then that's wounding on fours compared to two with a normal shot. This is what your opponent is considering.

If he chooses to fire upon you chances are at least some of the unit will be left (grape shot causing max 10 hits with good rolling), this will worry them now. They need to panic them, if not then the war machine is basically gone. Not only does this mean your miners are doing earning you VPs but it also aleviates the pressure of artillery upon your army. Now your miners have free rein over the WMs placement, maybe even rolling over each WM in turn.

The unit size for miners would be best to be small, paying extra for more ranks when you'll be facing 3 crew is a bit overkill. IMO for WM hunting the best unit size would be 10-12, but 16 at the verny most. A musician or champion maybe useful, but not a necessity.

Unit -
min 10 miners + Musician = 126
Max 16 + musican = 198 (+ champion - 210)

Of course with every good there's a bad, and this is the bad.

What makes you think your opponent will be callus enough to place all their WMs together? If they see the miner unit there, they'll do everything possible to make sure that unit won't be overrunning everything they have any time soon. Also deploying the WMs more than 6" on to the board or having a hero roaming about are all careful and useful deterents. Also being so close to the table edge will mean if the Miners flee chances are they're gone and a nice VP bonus for your opponent. Knowing they're there is one part of avoiding/stopping them.

* Flank Molesting

No, not like Ol' Jacko but the effect can be close. Seeing a fully ranked unit appear on their flank can worry an army, especially if they have gone for a refused flank approach. Not only do they have to worry about recieving a flank charge but march blocking as well, this can severly disrupt plans. Dwarfs being one of the hardest troop types available with the nice high WS, T and LD means not everyone are willing to engage them head on, flanking works best but requires time. This means at least one unit won't be hassling your army for a turn or two, leaving your artillery to consentrate on other units.

So march blocking works, yes but the unit will need to be larger than for WM hunting. Why? Because you have to survive, getting the flanks all well and good but a unit of ten won't really put much of a dint into many units, they still outnumber and have a banner (+2CR) you'll get +1 for rank and then +X for kills. Not the best of ratios, a full unit of 16-20 would do best with champ. Expensive but being able to tie a unit up for a couple of turns or march blocking IMO would be worth the price.

Something else to consider, when appearing on the flanks a charge isn't always the best choice. Take vs Khorne for example (or any frenzied unit), you get in their charge arc and they have to charge. You flee and you've just successfully dragged a unit out of the battle line and maybe even exposed a flank for a counter attack. Or you can drag units away, flank them and if you loose they pursue away from your mainline units. Useful for taking blocks of infantry or elite units out and removing them piecemeal (a prime target for WMs would you not say?)

They can even appear closer to your edge, primed in a ready flanking position vs a unit already engaged with your infantry. Panic and GW attacks in the flank are enough to make most enemy commanders worry.

Unit size -

Min 16 miners + Champ & Musican = 210
Max 20 miners + champ & musican = 258


Again flank molesting has its downs;

You have movement 3" and 6" marching, most units will be moving at 8+" on the march. Chances are you'll spend most the game trying to catch up, also as most fast cav will be on the flanks it means you'll have an even tougher time. Another problem is WMs, you stand to show your flank; to a BT this could be a disaster. Being a relativly expensive unit and being isolated means a single cav unit could dismantle them over a few turns (missile armed cav/heavy cav) or scouts could in turn flank them. Of course there's the chance your opponent will ignore them and push onwards, being too slow to relocate quickly could mean the end the the stubborn little blighters.


Of course these are just a few tactics or ways of using them; There are other ways too:

* Table quarter grabbing - being able to appear behind the enemy could mean getting one of those vital quarters.

* Gap plugging - Coming on in your own board edge could give you that little boost, plugging a failing unit or bolstering a flank.


As said these are my thoughts from looking at the unit and its applications and mused upon from other player's comments upon the unit. So what do you think?

Are miners worth it or are they just over priced warriors?


* Contrary to popular belief I am a New player, gaming wise. I know the rules and how to play, it's just putting them into practice. The reason behind this is due to the lack of players in my area.


KU

Nice summary, KU! In fact, I agree with everything you said :)


I think that flank molesting can be useful against certain armies, slowing down the enemy and endangering his flank (though he'll hardly let you get a flank charge). In many situations this option just wont be worth it though, because the miners are too slow to do much and are not the strongest when unsupported.

Warmachine hunting is probably the best way to use them (assuming that your opponent has enough WM's to make it worthwhile). The miners dont really have to worry about being targetted by the WM after they appear, because most likely a few of them will survive, and a few are enough to take care of WM's. Its probably better to shoot a last time against something more valueble with the WM and give it up then.


Now a problem is that your opponent will be expecting miners to come when he plays against dwarves.

A clever opponent will place his WM's far apart when he faces dwarves though. This means that they might not be able to destroy more than one WM. Not that this matters though! Killing an important piece of artillery is usually enough justification to take them. Besides, after doing so, they can happily walk around behind the enemy battle line. Though they will probably be too slow to catch up with the enemy and prepare a rear charge, it is annoying for your opponent to have a unit in his back. If one of his units flees, it might get near the miners, who can charge and cause it to flee further. And they can occupy a table quarter that usually is unreachable for dwarves.

Another problem is that your opponent might leave a unit or two back to protect the artillery. He can decide to leave a missile unit or a combat unit back.

The point of leaving a missile unit to protect the artillery is to combine its shooting with the warmachine shot and have good chances of destroying the unit afterall. However, this is risky. If only two miners survive, they will probably be able to break the WM on the charge. After that the miners will die, but they will have destroyed a WM and distracted an enemy unit that probably will remain useless for the next few rounds.
Destroying the miners entirely is possible, especially if a second WM is used as additional shooting support. Obviously this would not be good, but at least the miners will have distracted much of the enemy shooting for a round.

Or your opponent leaves a combat unit behind to guard the warmachines. By doing that, he can charge the miners and while he probably wont break them right away (unless he invests many points on the guard unit, which isnt worth it), he can hold them up and prevent them from charging the WM. While this means that the miners cant pursue their initial intention, at least an enemy unit will be tied up for a while and even if it wins, will be useless for the rest of the battle. And depending on the sizes of the miner and guard units, the miners do have certain chances of winning the combat and charging the WM with a delay of a few turns.

In both cases your opponent will be sacraficing a unit, so even if worst comes to worst (e.g. if they are destroyed after they appear), the miners wont have been worthless.


This brings me to another point, which is the psychological effect of miners. However, I cant recall at the moment if you have to tell your opponent at the beginning of the battle if and where the miners are coming out. If you do, forget about the following lines. If you dont, and if its therefore a surprise when the miners come, read on!

If your opponent decides to leave a guard unit with the warmachines, this doesnt mean that the miners will really come! There is no way for him to know if your army includes them or not. If the army doesnt have any miners, leaving a unit behind will have been a waste of time and, especially if its a combat unit, it might not be able to catch up with the rest of his army. This might cause your opponent not to use a guard unit, because he thinks you want to trick him and want him to waste time using a guard unit although you dont have any miners. But then your army might include miners afterall!
Its a hard and annoying decision for your opponent, whereas you are on the easy side, because if you use them you will let them come, no matter if your opponent uses a guard unit or not.


Even if this last bit doesnt apply, IMO all in all miners are an excellent unit.

Good points, and yes I do agree WM hunting are better for them; as M3 leaves the poor unit a long way to catch up. I just find it hard to justify them if all they'll be doing is knocking out a single WM and distracting a unit for a few turns. You said if they get to the WM, which they will most likely but I find them expensive for the jobs they've been designed for.

Hunting WMs will mean the unit must be large enough to take a close range round of shooting; things like Helblasters, Cannons (Grapeshot) or other non guess range WMs stand a great change of whiping out the unit in a single round. So as ten is the min size it makes them vunerable, and if the opponent decides to make sure they last but one turn and adds more fire to the volley then ten won't be all that well. Whilst this would stop the WM and a unit of missiles firing on the dwarf army it does mean the miners have stopped this for a single turn, at the cost of 120+ VPs. IMO not that good of an exchange.

You meantion the psychology aspect, yes I never really thought about that much. Not knowing where other not a unit is present can didctate your opponents deplyment, the WMs will be further apart and may deploy further onto the board. But then it can have a positive effect for them, as the miners appear randomly (Turn 2 on a four then add one each turn). This means if in the dying stages most of their army will be in combat, their missile units can be waiting for the miners. And the dwarf player must choose between taking down a 100pt WM or bolstering his combat lines. And along the same train of thought is the adverse effect on the dwarf player, it is possible to roll really badly and for the miner to turn up too late to be of any real help or too early and get slaughtered.

I'm not entirely convinced of their uses; but I'll have to play with them and see. Who knows I may end up liking them.


KU