I have been with TK since their release this edition and have faced pretty much every army and managed to beat them without too much trouble, Empire fall as easily as Slannesh which fall as easily as orcs. One I have not been able to beat yet are Skaven. I've actually only played them a couple of times with my TK, so I haven't had a lot of experience yet and know little about them but I was hoping to at least get close... I have two lists I am thinking of using next time, I'm not sure which is best.

Tomb King, general, great weapon, shield, armour of the ages, collar of shapesh
High Liche Priest, heirophant, golden ankrha, cloak of the dunes, plaques
Tomb Prince, great weapon, light armour, shield, chariot of fire
3 chariots, mirage standard (Prince goes here)
Liche priest, steed, staff of ravening
Liche priest, heiratic jar, dispel scroll
4 chariots, standard
8 heavy horsemen, standard
19 skeletons, shield, light armour, banner of the undying legion (King goes here)
20 skeletons, shield, light armour, standard
3 carrion
10 skeleotns, bows
2 Tomb Swarms
2 scorpions
2 x 3 Ushabti
SSC, skulls of the foes
SSC


Tomb King, shield, chariot, scorpion armour, chariot of fire, spear of antarhak
Liche High Priest, Hierophant, cloak of the dunes, Neferra's plaques of mighty incantation, golden ankrha
Liche Priest, Casket of Souls, dispel scroll, hieratic jar
Liche Priest, Steed, Staff of Ravening
Tomb Prince, great weapon, light armour, shield, brooch of the great desert, collar of shapesh
3 chariots, standard, mirage banner (Tomb King here)
4 chariots, standard
8 heavy horsemen, full command, no musician
19 skeletons, light armour, shield, full command, no musician, banner of undying legion (Tomb Prince here)
20 skeletons, light armour, shield, full command, no musician
10 skeletons, bow
3 Ushabti
3 Carrion
2 Tomb Scorpions
2 Screaming skull catapults, skulls of the foe

Essentially, the big difference is the first one uses the prince on a chariot and relies on the TK being with the army to use his leadership if the heirpohant dies. In the second list there is a casket and the king hits hard on the chariots while the prince supports the skeletons. The second list is one I have used successfully before as a general list to take on all.

Skaven have all this stuff like tunellers and some spell to teleport which destroys my catapults and caskets, very nasty stuff. They are als one of the few armies to outnumber us tk.

So which kind of list should i go for and how should it be changed to work better? Also any tips or anything that would be good against skaven that i should take or use? I'm not one who wants to win all the time, i still lose as often as win, but i want to beat these guys at least once. Please help me. Oh and i unfortunately cannot give any indication of what the skaven might have, there are several players of it in my club and they each work differently and change lists all the time. Just think in general what is usually taken.

the casket is the best just keep it close to your catapults so if the tunnelers get any ideas they have to take a terror test. If you go with tomb king on foot I suggest a blue khepra and scorpion armour great weapon.

Big blocks of skeletone with banner of undying legion are also good.

In general Skaven will win an awful lot just make sure you make them take as many leadership tests as you can.

Thats the best general advice I can give you.

Hey!

Im new to the site so ill try not to be repetitive. My first army is Skaven and I have just recently started with Tomb Kings. Nobody around here plays Skaven so I started it to be different and Ive really enjoyed it. My Skaven army is a horde army and I think if you can beat that type of Skaven threat then you can beat almost anything out. :) IMHO

Anyway...I think the better list of the two is the second one presented. The Carrion are a great investment since the warp-lightning cannon needs to be dealt with asap (str 8 or 10 with D6 wounds will destroy characters). Never charge the ratling guns with Carrions though. The Ushabti's will be a great flanking force and will butcher the T3 everything. Use the ICFB rules on the swarms and the scorpions to disrupt his line. Also realize that SSC causes panic checks at minus -1 and that the CoS as far as I know tests on the UNITS(read closely the book) leadership and not the generals and i dont believe you can borrow it for the test. Besides slaves leadership is 2 and 2d6+2 can lead to a dead unit fast!:) Remeber to have him take ALL fear tests and all the rules about panicking other units around them when they flee.

The tomb king combo is my favorite since you can essentially put him into combat with a unit alone and eventually WIN!(maybe not the best idea but a nice nod to the 5th ed). Maybe the staff of raving and mirage standard can be dropped for something else or more skellies and the unit of archers may not be that killer or make up their points.

As for tunnelers and stuff make them take their terror test and leave the swarm set back by them if you really think its an issue. Overall you have a good chance to beat them but just remember to concentrate fire on one unit at a time, especially clanrats. Make them panic somehow (kill the globadiers or giant rats are easy targets too) or lower their numbers so that when you win combat you'll outnumber them and they'll fall. Ive had my entire army rout almost from one unit of clanrats running from a couple of handgunners. Also remember that if you break rank with a flank/rear charge then they lose their leadership bonus from numbers, (dont let him lie and say his ledaership is 8 when its now a 5 after your Ushabti's came in <this is a huge deal seriously, all Skaven players fear this and its why I have a horde army>).

Good luck and happy hunting! :fight:

Hey, thanks for the replies. i was beginning to wonder if any would come. I also think the second list may be better, I was just wondering if the Skaven were spending points on anti-Casket stuff it would be good to suprise them and drop it... Of course they could still hit my catapults so in the first list it would probably be better to switch the catapults for a bone giant if I use it. I'm leaning towards the second now though.

Oh yes, that is what they are for. With the urgency incantation and that thing having to flee when charged I can get rid of it on the first turn. :D

Well, I know from an FAQ that the generals leadership can be used... The big question is whether Skaven ranks can add to it. In fact, it is a raging debate on several sites right now. I'm thinking no (obviously :P) from the arguements I have heard, but I am not sure.


The problem with terror tests is that they are at the start of every turn I believe and those tunellers can charge on the turn they appear. Oh, would they need to take the test as soon as they appeared? That would be nice.

In the past I have always spread fire to hurt units a bit before combat when I can hopefully beat them, focussing on one unit at a time might be a good idea. If I can force them to flee and possibly panic units around them... i might try it, but that will leave a lot of full strength units in combat. Thanks for the replies, anymore coming? ^_^

If your worried about anticasket stuff then take a tomb swarm or add a unit of 10 skeleton bowmen to help. As for the CoS hitting a Skaven, yes they get to use their rank bonus. In their book it states ALL LEADERSHIP BASED TESTS. Just remember that if they use their generals leadership then they take his base score and then add their units rank bonuses and not the generals units rank.

I thought the terror tests were taken as soon as the terror causing unit was within X distance but the rulebook says at the start of their turn or if they want to charge it. Remember as well that once a unit passes a terror test they dont have to take another for the rest of the game. Pg. 80 of the rulebook has the panic rules so that you can better use psychology against skaven.

Like I said any unit that is small is an easy target since they can be wiped out easier or take 25% casualties in only a few wounds. Plus night runners, small units of giant rats, globadiers, etc. dont have ranks so they have something like leadership 5 so testing on a 4 means you've got them easy and then they can panic larger units. Skaven tend to clump together since they need one-another to guard their flanks. This means that you have a better chance of hitting them with your catapult and if one panics at least one or more units now have to test. (Tell any empire player that mortars are the easiest way exterminate Skaven! You also want to concentrate fire because this will punch a hole in their line and allow you to hit their flank. Remember that rat swarms and slaves are expendable so they wont make others test so hit something else or accidentally overestimate and hit the stuff hiding behind it ;)

The banner in the princes unit is nice because of his collar. I normally dislike the giant and carrions but they may be essential here but stick with the catapults. What else could you use instead of the staff of raving? Do you think he will bring a screaming bell? A grey seer? Knowing this may help. Let us know.

Later

I personally cannot believe that you do not have Tomb Guard in there! This is VERY handy vs skaven, since they have a lot of trouble with T4. Most everything is S3, and therefore can't do the CR they need to vs. T4 units. This would be a VERY handy addition vs skaven.

Another important tactic -> The the bowmen into the skirmishers. You hit on 5s, and they have low Ld (6 at most). Aim prefferably at clumped ones, as one panic can take a lot or rats with them.

As stated, it is VERY important to hit them in the flanks. If you do, they do NOT GET THEIR RANK BONUS FOR FEAR TEST. As stated before, this is important. If you can force a fear, or panic, they are likely broken on a 6 or 7. This is why I would suggest fast cav.

Other than that, concentrate on low ld. You can afford to spread yourself thin, just get around back, or around the sides and he's toast :)

I don't really like Tomb Guard... They tend to not kill a lot more than normal skeletons yet they cost more and take a special slot. I suppose they could be useful, but what would I remove to stick some in?

I think there may be a bell. This will give atomatic MR 2 against my casket, so it won't be very hard to dispel. I will need to try to kill it asap... There will be a grey seer, and a warlord. Probably several engineers and a BSB. Rat swarms and gutter runners will be there, some unit that has frenzy, some unit of plague somethings? Probably giant rats and of course all the core units with their guns... I"m not completely sure though, I don't really know a lot about skaven and I didn't pay attention to the list last time i played.

I will definitely be reading up on all the psychology rules and making sure they do not miss any tests at all, my skeletons are as bad (or worse) than rats stat wise yet double the points, I really cannot afford to miss any psych tests...

Well, people say it isn't a leadership test. It is merely an effect which includes the leadership, it isn't a normal leadership at all. Just uses leadership as a modifier if you will. The casket is an instant effect spell, just like any other offensive ones, NOT a leadership based test. When doing a strength test, do you include the strength of the weapon you are holding like great weapon? NO. The modifier shouldn't come into play, but it is a debate I don't really want to get into here. It is repeated in enough threads with very good arguements for both sides and no clear resolution.

I would have to disagree with that. If this were a straight bonus, then it would not state that your maximum leadership is 10. I would copy and paste the book, but it is copywrite infringment. As you say though, you do not want to get into the discussion.
I wish to add that if a test uses strenght, it is a strecth test. Therefore if a test uses Ld, it is a Ld test.

The tomb guard are not the best, no. But it's the T4 that is the best. Trust me, and ask skaven, they HATE T4. Take the heavy horse. You have the chariots to do their job :D

Listen man if your good you can hit the ratling guns with your SSC's and do enough damage to panic them his clanrats have to take the test as well. Any small unit needs to eat a shot or two from your SSC and yes you need to hit that bell unit hard.

I have only used TGuard a few times but they arent really good for skaven since i think they are great charater killers but rank and file will eat them up. I feel as a first and foremost skaven player i think that skaven depend on winning combat fast but cannot hold up to a war of attrition since we lose leadership as our numbers drop. TK's can use this since your skeleton units will stay until he kills them all and will allow for plenty of flank charges by your special units when their numbers are low. Skaven (or me at least) tend to use the cheap units to be walking 4 or 5 plus combat res for only 50 points(slaves) and cant kill a thing but thats ok since its expected that you cant due enough wounds to beat it. Beat him in the movement phase and then just hit him in the side charges since one he enters combat hes stuck for a few turns(hopefully).

Side piece of advice: dont try and go after the bell if its heavily guarded. If he puts it in the center like a smart player he will outnumber you and hit your flanks and just plain make you cry for the next 4 turns. Concentrate on punching a gap in his lines and let the subsequent flank charges and panic tests carry you through his army like a wave.

Best of luck!

Happy Hunting :fight: