This is a place where you can pose fluff questions, and hopefully have them answered by someone who knows the answer. This is NOT a 'ooh, look at me, I'm going to show off' thread. This is educational, for people who are perhaps looking for fluff answers or for theme ideas for their army.

For instance, a question could be "What is the Great Bastion?"
And someone could reply "I think it's like the Great Wall of China, but in Cathay, and much bigger."

KU

Okay, I'll kick this off. Does anyone know anything about "the Hinterlands of Khuresh"? They're in between Nippon and Ind on the world map from WD300. All it says is "Forest Goblins", "Lost City of the Old Ones" and "Warpstone here". It sounds like a pretty cool place for Goblit to take the goblin horde, but I don't know anything else about it.

The Green Goblit :orc:

HA! Just what I've always wanted (being my clubs keeper of books, master of secrets, techscribe, etc.)! What is the deal with the Lizardmen? I mean, where did they come from? And what is a good website to get fluff from? Please don't say criticalhit.com because it is NOT good...

Goblit - That area past the worlds edge is basically unknown, all that is really known are a few parts and GW fail to expand upon them.

Lizardmen were made by the Old Ones, these beings basically made all creatures upon the old world. The LM were their finest creations, they were not slaves but more workers. They served the Old Ones and when they left the Slann took it upon themselves to follow their plans and form the old world to the old ones plans.

KU

Ah...so thats the deal. I thought they where just like mutated lizzies...where did the old ones go tough? I know 40k and fantasy are in SOME way connected (dono just how though) and the Old Ones there are gone too...did they die out? Where they some sort of gods?

They were at least godlike! I think the Old Ones were wiped out when the powers of chaos spilled into the world from one of the magical gates in the north.

The Old Ones arrived in the Old World through the polar gates (which they created). They were a race from beyond the stars, which is about as much as anyone knows about them except the Slann, who aren't telling. They vanished - presumed dead - when the polar warp gates collapsed, most probably losing their lives in trying to hold back the tide of raw Chaos. The Slann now carry out their will, as laid down in golden plaques which are kept in vaults in the temples (and which people will keep trying to steal - if the Slann would just get the message and have them remade in lead or something non-valuable then they wouldn't have to keep killing New Ones). They are revered as gods among the Lizardmen, and their power was definitely on a par with the gods: the Slann, their servants, have reconfigured the continents several times (the earthquakes that shattered the Dwarf Empire were caused by this), and before the warp gate collapse the Slann, on their orders, actually brought the world closer to the sun so that they could have a more pleasant climate.

In 40K, the Old Ones are made out as one of the two god-like races that fought at the dawn of time: the others are the C'Tan. Both races in 40K are not psychic beings formed by belief and emotion, like the Chaos Gods, but actual, biological beings (albeit incredibly advanced). The Old Ones were the pioneers of psychic power, and are mentioned as a reptilian race that lived practically forever. If you can imagine Eldrad Ulthran to the power of a billion, that's an Old One's psychic power.

The Old Ones bumped into the Necrontyr, who were a stunted, nasty little bunch of troglodytes. The Old Ones were a paternalistic, wise and amicable bunch, and they didn't invade but simply mingled with the Necrontyr, helping them develop. However, the Necrontyr lived under a huge, nasty star. At this point, the C'Tan were barely sentient, immensely powerful beings that had evolved to live in stars - by means unknown, the Necrontyr awakened the C'Tan within their own star, unleashing him (Nightbringer) and his brethren upon the Old Ones. Outside their basic surroundings, the C'Tan developed rapidly, taking over Necrontyr civilisation - immensely powerful and basically predatory, they attacked the entire network of the Old Ones. They found themselves being beaten, however, as the Old Ones had a plethora of friendly races on their side and were so psychically potent (compared to the psychically blank C'Tan) that the presence of a few of them would cancel out the advantage of having Star Gods on the battlefield. The war was a devastating stalemate for a long time, the Old Ones slowly grinding down their enemies by means of attrition; at last the C'Tan attempted, in a last-ditch measure, to seal off the Old Ones from their source of power, using unknown technologies or powers to try and cut off the universe from the Warp. Their attempt nearly succeeded, but ultimately failed - the vast expenditure of power, however, flooded into the warp, catalysing the creation of the first Chaos Gods. The Chaos Gods had beforehand been merely emotional echoes in the warp, psychic shadows of mortals - with the C'Tan's disastrous attempt to cut them off, they found the power to grow. Daemons for the first time began to attack the real world, flooding in - the Necrontyr and C'Tan, being psychically inactive, were relatively safe, while the Old Ones were extremely vulnerable. The entire race of Old Ones vanished, presumably wiped out as the races they had helped develop and create fought on (including the Eldar) against the tide of Chaos; unable to defeat the undending hordes of daemons, the C'Tan locked the spirits of their Necrontyr minions within undying metal shells, sealing themselves inside gigantic tombs. They theorised that the daemon hordes would wipe out all life, thus depriving themselves of their own powerbase (the emotions of mortals) and disappearing, at which point they would be able to re-emerge and take over.

This catastrophe corresponds with the "Great Catastrophe" of WHFB pretty closely: it's likely that the collapse of the polar warp gates and the C'Tan attempting to seal the Warp off are an example of cause and effect. The Eldar are the Elves, who fought hard in their primitive but psychically/magically powerful "dawn age" state in cataclysmic wars against Chaos, the Elven "section" of the race being led to victory by Aenarion. There are discrepancies in the fluff - the Fall and the creation of Slaanesh happened after this war in the stars, but Aenarion fought a greater daemon of all four greater powers on the Isle of the Dead - but then the links are meant to be confused and tenuous, as GW doesn't want to make things too obvious. Also, as the fluff (kitten dies) has grown organically over time, under different writers, there are bound to be a few minor contradictions.

I have a question. Does anyone know the origin of the Orcs? It came across to me in the Lizardman book that the Old Ones didn't create them, so what did?

Well, when the old ones created man, elves, ect, everything didn't go quite to plan so out of these races came the orcs and gobbos. I'd give skaven the same reply, but this is how I look on it. Anyway, the orc and gobbo fluff is very minimal, so just blame it on GW! :P :P :P

The 40k orks I believe are accually plant life gone wrong...note they don't breed, they spore...*shrugs* Maybe theres a place worse than Catacha that spawns walking plants with guns?

Orks aren't plants, If they spore they're fungus, but I don't buy that. I believe thats just a bit of Imperial propaganda.

If Orks are fungus, then I definately think that Orcs are not. I don't know much more fluff about Orks, but it's clear that Orcs have all the characteristics of animals rather than fungus, like excreting waste as dung to make their statues.

Getting back to my question, so are the Orcs an experiment of the Old Ones gone wrong?

Dosn't it say orks are fungus in their codex for 40k? Fantasy wise, I think they where some thing related to elves...or was that in LOTR? ...or dragon lance? :-X

That was LOTR. Saruman told an Uruk Hai about tomented Elves etc, who finally turned into Urk Hai/Orcs (cant remember)

The orcs were created by Morgoth in the first age of the world as a cruel mockery of elves, though for the record, they are elves.

Accually the whole ork spore fungus thing was in the 40k one.

Why did CD depart from the normal dwarfs? I remeber there was some mention back in WD 238/9 in the article on civil wars but nothing exact.

In the olden days the dwarfs travveled far and wide, leaving their mountinous home in the worlds edge mountains. Some went south, some went north, some went west and the ones who later became the CDs went east. Their settled in the inhospitable relm of the darklands because of the mineral wealth it offered. There they satmining away untill the comming of chaos. The region became increasingly volcanic and the chaos energies seeped in to the ground and the minds of those who were present. Over the years the dwarfs became more and more corrupted, whilst their bodies remained unaffected their minds were permanetly altered. They became cruel, and down right naughty. With the powers of chaos flowing through the lands the Chaos dwarf soon learnt to harness these powers (making them a magic race). Then some how these chaos powers inveneted a new god know one had ever heard of for the chaos dwarfs to belive it *yeah right*. Any way, thats how they became evil.

The Orks were one of a number of races created by the old ones to defend their last strngholds against the C'Tan, or the "hardy green-skinned Krork" as it says in Codex Necrons.

Help me clear up the origins of the Skaven,
I skimmed through the description in White Dwarf 168, which basically says how once apon a time in a city where dwarfs and men lived together a stranger turns up and for one reason (I forget) offers to build the inhabitants a HUGE tower. He plonks a bell on top, and leaves mysteriously before the population can give thanks.
One night, the bell rings 13 times and a HUGE storm occurs. The rats start getting very confident and ambitious, bringing down farmer's chickens and eventually dogs etc. The rats get bigger and somewhat smarter, specially targetting grain/food stores, but are still walking (scurrying) on all fours.

The humans knock on the Dwarfs door (they live underground you see) and ask if they can take refuge from the increasingly bad storm. The Dwarfs seem suspiciously angry and defensive, and deny the human's pleas.

The bell continued to toll 13 times every night, and the rats started to prey on the rapidly weakening humans themselves. As food got scarce, desperation made the humans batter down the Dwarfs doors. They found the remains of the under-ground stronghold flooded/destroyed and all of the dwarfs dead. The rats underground were even worse than those above, and erupted to kill the humans.

The city became the skaven home 'Skavenblight', and the propieters began digging outwards (they tried above-ground first, but found all sorts of nasty things like orcs there). Disaster struck when they tried to use mega-warpstone-machines to dig the passageways, and much like most skaven-technology they literally blew up. This caused whole mountains to collapse (which is why the Dwarfs were so pushed back after thier war with the elves), and the skaven race began to apprecaite the Horned rat and the grey seer ALOT more.

Phew
Is any of this right? I know the white dwarf issue is OLD (168), and the fluff may not apply any more. Jus wanted to check.

Regards
AngryPriest

*waves* Hi I'm new.

Just a fluff question. Does anyone know anything about Karak Zorn? I Can't find it in any fluff.

Ahh.. young beardling.

Karak Zorn is the lowest of the dwarven holds, deep within the area known as the Southlands. It is said that the city is made from gold, they use jewels and gems as minor currency. But nothing is truely known any more, in the new LM army book in the time line at the year -2000 it says there's rife within the city. That is the last known piece of info about the hold.

But it is also believed to be the first dwarven hold, Grungni led the dwarfs northwards and colonised the World Edge Mountains - so they came from the south.

But in all, Zorn has little fluff about it. A few small extracts here and there, but nothing deep.

KU

God, i hope this isnt necromancy :unsure: , but i believe this is the best place to ask my question:

Can you guys tell me anything (really anything at all) about The Moot (where the halflings live)?


Thanks in advance,
_jumba :thumb:

All I know about the halflings and their precious Moot is:

Halflings are great cooks for DoW and tasty snacks for Ogres.

The Moot is on the edge of the empire somewhere (I don't remember) and they are annoying little buggers who enjoy taking stuff out of your pockets and generally annoying you.

You can get more information in the 300th WD (decemder UK) in the 'Hard as stone' story

The skaven came to life in the way described in the way angry priest described, But i don't really understand it :Who was the stranger who built the bell? why is it not in the imperial/dwarf records? when did it happen?

My guess about the records thing is that the dwarfs were wiped out before there was a chance to send out messengers. And that to the men of the empire skaven 'dont exist' as it is constantly denied the existance of them by high up men in the empire and to keep a record of such that fall into the wrong hands would cause mass panic throughout the empire.

thats what i think anyway.

Yeah,but dwarfs would know if one of their holds fell,they send out gyrocopter messengers to each other to keep up the news.

It is my understanding that the Dwarf hold that was taken by the newly evolved skaven was not exactly a 'huge' complex. It was more of a small garrisson that lived a symbiote relationship with the humans.

And were gyros even invented then :wacko:

Got a question. What are the Border Princes exactly?

The border Princes are a land just under the empire that have no particular ruler and are full of bandits and briggands and the like.

On an off note, I thought it said supository at first :P.

Who's the most powerful wizard: Lord Kroak or Nagash? I know that they can't really be compared because their magic is quite different, but there's got to be one of them who's the mightiest.

Note: I'm not asking who's the better in a game of Warhammer. I mean who's the most powerful in theory (fluff-wise). And I speak only about magical powers, nothing else. I don't want to know who would win in a magical duel; I ask who has the most influence over the Warhammer world with his magic.

Teclis and Ariel are also powerful, but I still believe that the title of mightiest wizard would be earned by either Lord Kroak or Nagash.

What's your opinion about that?

Nagash by far, I would not consider Kroak to be anywhere near the same level.

Teclis is way off. I wouldn't underestimate Ariel (she is a goddess after all), but still would not put her above Nagash.

Isnt Teclis considered to be the most powerful wizard in the world? Between Nagash and Kroak Id say Nagash.

to me, I don't normally bother saying that certain characters are better than others, because each description in each book says their character is better. Teclis' description says he's the best sorceror in the warhammer world, but as you can see not a lot of people agree with this.

Anyway, I'm not too sure how you say, 'oh, Nagash is better than Kroak' because there is no way of distinguishing each, unless it's what they've both achieved in their 'lifetime' (using the term loosely with nagash).

But I do know what particular weapon cut off Nagash's hand bringing his power to an end. :D (yay Skaven 'fellblade')

No. They say he's the best LIVING sorcerer. But both Lord Kroak and Nagash are dead.

Actually, I think Kroak, when he was alive, would have given Nagash a run for his money: we're talking about a creature who was able to exert a magical barrier several hundred miles around his city that incinerated any daemon it touched, and unleashed blasts that killed daemons by their hundreds. Heck, he's supposedly superior to Mazdamundi, a Slann who MOVED A FRIKKIN MOUNTAIN RANGE!
Not that I'm saying Nagash isn't uber in his own way, but I'd think carefully before placing him above the most powerful Slann in existence.

didnt the slanns move the earth closer to the sun to get a more pleasant climate or something? that´s what I call power :P

I think it's the Old Ones who did that.

They would be level-9 wizards if you could play them...

Here's one for you: What are the lifespans of High Elf and Empire griffons?

Now, I've always assumed that they must have different lifespans since a practical length of time for a human's mount would be far too short to be useful for an elf and if they lived a practical length of time for an elf then they would almost certainly outlive a human (and probably his great-grandchildren as well).
Due to the massive difference in life expectancy between elves (about 2200 years) and humans (about 60 years, given the historical time) it's kind of hard to see there being any sort of 'golden mean' here.

I've tended to assume that Ulthuan native griffons would live for about 500-600 years, and Old World griffons 40+ years, but I'm not really sure. Any infomation any of you may have would be useful.

I'd imagine that all griffons live for 50-100 years or so. Just because a human rides a horse does not mean the horse has the same lifespan as a human: a griffon that serves an elf or a human for 30-80 years is just as useful to the elf as it is to the human, despite the fact that the elf will outlive its mount.

(A wee note... I think the average human life expectancy in the Old World is much lower than 60, considering the prospects of your average peasant. However, for the griffon-riding demographic (i.e. the top brass), 60 is probably about right...)

But it is true that most mounts used by Elves outlive by very far the mounts used by humans: Tyrion had his horse, Malhandir, during the Battle of Finuval some centuries ago, and he still has it now. And a griffon is probably able to live much longer than a horse.