They've put the Ogre summary up on the spanish site, so anyone who hasn't read the book can see the stats now. It's in Spanish (well, duh!) but the statline is in the same order so...

OGRE SUMMARY!

BTW, it's a PDF.

The Green Goblit :orc:

what does that first "M" means/ I don't really get the 15/18/10.....

I think it shows how far they can march (sabretusks 20, Yhetee 18, etc.). Maybe the movement rules are different over there.

The marching theory doesn't explain M15 - what the hell has M7.5?

The Green Goblit :orc:

Actuall the Spanish peeps use CM for ranges, not inches. So that would be 20cm not 20"

KU

Ah, that explains it. Never mind then.

The rest of it is right though. Honest!

The Green Goblit :orc:

I hereby retract all claims of them being overpowered. Man those stats are weak!! I think that any army with strong combat and strong magic should defeat them easily.
Man, I am glad I have started an orc and gobbo force.

that's not really true I think, first of all because they cause impact hits, not much, but it can make the difference and they are multi-woundedn, meaning that if you inflict 1 or 2 wounds, you can still attack back with everything, only the t4 and s4 are a bit weak, I don't think a longbeard is a strong and as tough as an oger but whatever.....

It's because the Ogres are Fat. Thus, Their Strength/Toughness sucks.

I thought you retracted them a while ago. Oh, wait, you were just saying that because you couldn't back them up...

Don't start anything, vriish.We don't really want this topic locked


Man I wish I could understand spanish though, 'tis very hard to read.Some of it us clear,but I want more!

You know, I didn't. Yes I thought they were going to be more powerful than they were but still no need to mention that everytime I most in this section.

The basic stats are "weak", but when you factor in bull charges, causing fear, etc. they're really pretty powerful.

Say, like me, you're taking units of 3 ogre bulls. You get the charge (M6, so its quite likely), and inflict 3 S4 impact hits. Then you get your 12 S4 attacks (AHW). With 15 S4 attacks (3 of which ALWAYS hit), you're going to kill a fair few enemies. The ogre unit is US9, so it may well outnumber the enemy by the end of combat. Outnumbered by a fear-causing enemy = run away. Goodbye.

They aren't going to be the "charge-straight-forwards-and-kill-everything-army" some people thought they would be, but they're sure as hell not weak. Also, with M6 flank charges are quite likely, especially if you've got a couple of M9 Sabretusks running around.

They'll be tactical, but not weak.

So am I. :P

The Green Goblit :orc:

I would take units larger than 3 bulls, take 6 or 8, for higher strenght impact hits, more attack and a greater change to outnumber the enemy

Nah, I'm doing MSU. As many units of 3 as possible! Besides, a bull is 35 points. Is it worth spending 140pts to get +1 rank bonus? I don't think so.

The Green Goblit :orc:

not only rank bonus....higher impact hit strenght, outnumbering most of the times the unit in total has more wounds....And besides, I hate playing MSU ;)

Okay then, +1 rank and +1S on bull charges. The outnumbering thing would be useful, but with MSU the point is I hit them with 1 unit of 3 in the front and 1 in the flank, so I'm spending 210pts instead of 280 and its more effective (more attacks and +1 for the flank charge). Besides, the flank charge'll get rid of ranks anyway...

Oh, okay, I won't do it then. ;)

The Green Goblit :orc:

Lets remember, ogre's never get rank bonuses and you can't get more than 3 of their sized bases into combat with normal sized infantry units.

I think "exploradores" is scouts *proud* and "causan miedo" is causing fear.

Actually, the general opinion is that they do get ranks now. I couldn't find where it says that they don't in the book, and on ogrestronghold.co.uk everyone thinks they do.

The point about base size is a good one though.

The Green Goblit :orc:

How about that units 3 wide dont get ranks?

Unless you're making units 4 wide, but anyway lets wait till the book before we start making decisions about the best way to use them.

Also, would a snake formation allow about 5 or 6 bulls to line up, and give a str10 impact hit? :lol: Or is it only full ranks?

Oh and Vriish, you legend ^_^

ogres are hardy/fat they will be good, i cant get a link <_< (im not gettin them im stayin wit my lizzies :D )

( :huh: hmm i like smiling)

Is there one in English. This one i cannot uderstand much.

Cheers

What's MSU? I'm thinking of buying my first army (ogres) but want a decent tactical 2000 point army to play mates who have 20 years experience! they play orcs and gobos, dwarves, empire to great effect. Are the hunters effectively fast cavalry?

SPLAT

MSU stands for Multpile Small Units. It basically a tactic where you take as many small units as possible. It was originally created for Dark Elves, I believe, but it works just as well with ogres (I've won both of my games using it).

Hunters come with Sabretusks which count as Fast Cavalry when released.

The Green Goblit :orc:

No. It was first written up on druchii.net. I am pretty sure it was used before but not widley. I play my high elves with an all cav msu most of the time but that could be called mse.

MSE is Multiple Small Elites, by the way.

Obviously. D.net was when it became well known (I'm not exactly going to know the names of everyone who tried it before then, am I?), so it is associated with dark elves. Which is basically what I said. ;)

The Green Goblit :orc:

I don't associate it with dark elves. Because then you associate all sorts of other tactics with other armies. Maybe it is just me, but I don't find the concept of msu new as it is just a tactic, not a new rule.

Hang on. Cal said that you can only get 3 in contact with a regular infantry unit. Not so - you can get 4 into contact with a regular infantry unit, provided you use the corner contacts: 4x40=160, 4x20=100 which leaves you 30 extra space on each side, meaning that the ogre on each end has 10mm of his base in contact wi' ye and can fight. That's with a unit of 4-frontage, 20x20 bases, the smallest possible. So boo yah sucks to you, Mr Caledorian :P

Also, I find this tone rather amusing:

Good God! Surely not? That sounds terrible... think of the children! Please, won't somebody think of the children!...

I associate lots of tactics with armies. MSU = elves. Annoying b***ards prancing round me, not letting me charge = wood elves. Unbreakable line = Slayers.

4 x 20 is 80, Chili. :P

You're right though, corner-to-corner you can still get 4 Ogre in base-to-base.

The Green Goblit :orc:

Oh well, is it such a problem to be wrong.
Is It?
Is it?
Is it?

Argh... and I'm meant to be doing Further Maths. I do have an excuse (don't I always) - that was the second draft of a post where I had illustrated the mathematical principles for every kind of regular infantry unit (25mm, 20mm, 5 frontage, 4 frontage), but when I got to 4 frontage 20mm base I redrafted it as if you can fit 4 20mms in then you can fit anything in, but by that time 25mm and 20mm were drifting around in my head like strange jellyfish, and I'm ill...

Already the mind unravels faster, like a tapestry with angry kittens...