I have the rule book but ounce my dad found out how much i spent on it he said with one of those warning voices "IT'S YOUR MONEY" and i was wondering is this game going to stay big for awhile

It will be popular for a very long time. It's popularity is on the rise now. I was at a GW a week or two ago (I have no concept of time), and the manager told me he got four new players in that oen day. That seems pretty good, I guess.
In the Ottawa area, 40K is actually more popular than fantasy.

Nothing to worry about, there will always be a huge amount of 40K players.

Sadly, it willl be big. This is because cack painters and talentless players fiind 40k much more open to them while fantasy, is there for the talented players who know how to play.

Wow and ouch, lol.
There are many great painters playing 40K. And there are many who do play with a good use of tactics. I'm sorry if your experience with 40K says otherwise, but you need only look at some of the showcased models in White Dwarf to see the excellent paint jobs some of those 40K players can do.
As for tactics, I do think fantasy is the more tactical game, but that doesn't mean tactics are completely absent from 40K (though they may be slightly less varied).

I am not saying that they are bad painters just you normal bog standard army is worse than the fantasy ones. My problem is fantasy players care about their armies ore in general.
40k has easy enough tactics, though while I play it, a squad of nine chosen marines backed up by a hitty lord with 10 bloodletters bound to him in a rhino is a hugley powerful set up while this happens less in fantasy and people try out new tactics like msu rather than the rhino rush which everyone can use.

hence 4th edition which removed this to a very large extent. I have to say in all honesty that I am first and foremost a 40K player over WHFB. I prefer the system simpler yet still has a level of complexity that requires tactics, this is especially true with 4th edition with new tactics, Huge characters such as Daemon princes can be wiped out if outnumbered enough and the new target priority the move and fire vehicles mean that shooting is different.

Taking nothing away from fantasy, on the contrary it is an excellent game, and IMHO more 'realist' then WH40k in terms of specific rules (eg movement rates magic unit combats etc.)

Thats a bit harsh.
40k will stay big.
Calodrian 40k takes jsut as much thinking abotu as fantasy.
Also not all 40k painters or cak. Trust me alot of them are better than fantasy ones (only if i could upload an image of my 2nd editon ghazkull then u would know).

Since its been "big" for so long up to now, i would say yes.

Sadly, yes. My local store suddenly(within a week) made a complete change over from fantasy and 40k to just plain 40k covering an entire wall.

That is pretty sad i tell u worse thou.
My local shop has got rid of msot of its 40k and fantasy stuff for *drum roll pleases* Lord of the rings.
Its an laright game but how the hell could you get rid of all the warhammer and most of the 40k stuff for it.

That is unlucky. I am at the moment writing a essay on why fantasy is a better game. I really am bored with how 40k is so great, it is not people!! The rules are basic and people play it because it is easy. Yes, I moan about chaos being a n00bs army but nothing combared not n00bs marines. Never again, do I want a little brat start running around the store going "I won a game I won a game" and when I play them and murder them they accuse me off cheating when I have been playing 40k for ages. At least fantasy players wait until they bet a few of the better players before bragging rather than " I beat a bigger n00b than me".
Dreg, type better please, but I do feel sorry for you as lord of the rings really does not need much attention.

Sos about the typing.
I know its a bloody disgrace(too much) and there only about 5 boxes of it brought a month trust me the store owner shows me how much is sold (doesnt know much abotu Gw) and asks what is popular.
Still its stupid why sell so much lord of the rings.

At least edit your own post before saying that, lol.

In all honesty, Prince Cal, I think you just have to meet some good 40K players. You may just be unlucky in that you get stuck with much younger players.

Dreg: if it's not a GW, then it doesn't surprise me that they would stock up on LOTR stuff. It's based on a huge movie, so the game markets itself.

There are some good ones but the majority are n00bs and they put me off the game, yea fantasy has some but they are not as bad.

Cal you should come were i live then 99% of 40k players are vets and alot of the time we host(mainly i) host massive battle last one was15v15 people and the points were something like 30000 it took 4 days but it was fun, luckliy most of the palyers used some variants of space marines or a high costing army. But then you had a mass of roc and tyranids players and that was just hilarious.

I honestly say I disagree with most of what is being said. Both 40K and LoTR IMHO are equally good as Warhammer Fantasy, they are just different in terms of style of rules. You can't really generalise on the type of gamers who'd play the sort of game. For me, each game appeals to me depending on what game is being played, Lord of the Rings because of it's difference to the I go you go system appeals to me, as it means you won't be bored while your opponent shoots and batters you for a half an hour while you do nothing. 40K apeals to me when I want to play a shooty game less complex then Fantasy.

For the painting aspect again I can't generalise, they are all miniatures so they can all be painted good and bad, at Golden Daemon the quality of all the models can truly be shown. It nearly sickens me how people say how their game is better then anyone elses, they can't take it that other systems can work equally well as theirs.

rant over

I aint insulting either of the 3 games but its jsut that 40k and fantasy deserve more spaces in shop that arent gw than Lotr.

okay i cant understand that i understand the first but the last? and lotr has a pitifully small spot in it a corner a small corner gah you can barely find anything thats bigger than very small

Gw has managed to basically corner the market in wargames for the younger gamer, theres nothing out there that is as easily accessable as GWs games. It has stores on highstreets arround the world, hell theres a GW in every major town and city in the UK and im sure given time GW will make this global.

they activly market to the younger gamer bringing new players in daily, some stay, some dont, some end up like me many years down the line with several armys and piles of white dwarfs that require mountaneering gear to navigate.

Short of some massive movement againt them, which i doubt as the argument "its only a game" goes a long way. Also the fact that at some point most players have built there own weps from the games and would be miffed if some evangalistic group tried to have GW shut down. GW is here to stay for some time, wither or not thats a good thing is another question...

Sorry to say but I know a friend that own's a comic shop he sells 40k and lotr..he said the fantasy just doesn't sell and comic book owners need to make a living too so if it sells he will provide, and I make sure his tyranid sells. Don't bash it either on painting or whatever I have seen incredible work and mods on everything you could think of, remember it only has to be like 50% and wysiwug.

I totally relate to Cal on this though but I dont feel the same anger.

40K seems just easier for a newer player to pick up and win and it feels like comparing checkers to chess. I have seen some great paint jobs and brilliant generals so I wont say they are not there but I think a great general in 40K has so much potential for fantasy that its almost a waste to have them play only 40K.

Plus I just can't get into 40K's models and before my local shop closed down there were what seemed like field trips from the local middle school bringing kids who didnt have the money or the time for fantasy but could bum rush you and win in 40K and run around yelling until nap-time. That NEVER happened in fantasy, (besides chaos/lizardmen in 5th ed.), to me because good tactics will always beat bad dice rolls. Plus in 40K I have watched kids mimic the lists of the vets and win and again that doesnt seem to happen in fantasy often.

But to each their own and if you have fun then its all good just be the best you can at either game or both is all I ask.

-Later

p.s. and is it just me or does n00b seems like a almost pseudo-racism in warhammer ;) .

I think all the 3 systems are equally ok, although i am predominantly a fantasy player. But we were all 'noobs' ( even though i dont like the term) when we first started and anyone who says they weren't is just plain lying. I think that we should help the beginners to become better gamers and help them paint their armies. I dont know if you have them in your store but we have beginner days and such for the beginners to learn and then a sunday evening club, like veterans night to show them how to play big games. But i have to stand by the fact that i prefer bloodbowl above evrygame ever created! :D :thumb:

there are beginner days in most GW stores arround the UK, the problem is destinguishing between what i call newbies and n00bs.

newbies=good

n00bs=bad

its a tough one as both bring money to GW and thus allow it to continue doing what it likes, the big difference is that a newbie will probably stick with the game, learn from his or her mistakes and one day become a vet player. They are to be encouraged and shown the way.

a n00b on the other hand typically will only play the games for a relativly short period of time, become boried and go back to whatever they did before, probably taling net speak on a forum somewhere. To create a vet from a noob is a difficult task indeed as they typically aint intereted in learning anything and spend most of the time being, well annoying. You have all met one, you know they exist and how the GW staffers dont go mad when there surrounded by them on a regular basis i really dont know.

Thats not to say a n00b cannot become a decent player, you just have a uphill struggle on your hands with them.

i would not call it racism, its more just a general insult although the meaning can vary.

The newbie is the way forward, for they will one day become the vet and thus train the next generation of newbies. The life cycle of the gamer continues...

too be honest fantasy, 40k and LOTR are all brilliant games too play if you want to have a laugh with a group of freinds and it is good to diverse between all 3. i agree that fantasy is much more tactical but somethimes i can find that a bit too much and just want to get on with the battle, that's when i play 40k. LOTR is a good game aswell as it's more simple and far faster to play as more often that not they are finished before some fantasy players have deployed ^_^

theres my two cents

This is similar to my experience. I discovered the new LGS, it revived my interest in miniatures, and I ran the 40K vs. fantasy debate through my head. At our shop, the 40K domination seems to have become a self-fulfilling prophesy. My heart and natural interest were in fantasy, but I never saw anyone playing it. Everybody played 40K, and I bought into Necrons. While building any new army, it is nearly impossible to feel wealthy enough to start another at the same time. I'm sure a large number of locals came to the same conclusion I did: you have to play the game that guarantees you a match when you show up at the shop. Some fantasy players have tried to recruit me into their camp, but they're all 40K players as well, and that's what they bring to the shop. One guy admitted that fantasy games take longer to play, primarily due to lengthy setup of movement trays and finicky maneuvering, so he doesn't bother with it as much. I observed that the fantasy collectors tended to be the more *ahem* mature gamers in the store. So few people adopted fantasy that the shop is clearing it off the shelves. I don't believe GW's warbands rules make the hobby any easier to get into. You can make the units pretty small, but you're still buying a bunch of $30 regiment boxes to get started. I considered HE, but with such high point costs I'd have disappointingly few units to maneuver. The fantasy game just doesn't seem to scale down well for any non-horde army, and the horde armies are relatively expensive by definition. Consider starter kits: the 40K Battle for Macragge is half the cost of the WH fantasy boxed set. I can see why fewer people, particularly younger folks, adopt WH fantasy. The LGS isn't looking like a healthy business during this transition, while all sorts of odd stuff goes up where WH fantasy miniatures used to be: T shirts, comic books, used paperbacks... So there's the looming tragedy: new local players are almost guaranteed to avoid WH fantasy at this point, and it doesn't even seem like 40K sales are sufficient to keep the shop afloat. Hardly anyone bought into Lord of the Rings either, and the few remaining boxes are in the bargain bin area. Nobody will touch them, even discounted. It appears to me that GW products compete with themselves. At their prices, few people can afford to collect more than one army at a time, and 40K/fantasy/LotR can readily go extinct in any local area. Of the three, 40K has to be the most resilient.

It's worth noting 57% of Gw's model sales are from the space marine range, depressing ain't it.

the bottom line is if you wanna collect the hobby collect it, if not dont its that simple. yey i solved the topic in one sentence ^_^

Congratulaitons to the all knowing rabbit. :P

:thumb: SNOTLINGZ :thumb:

What 57% marine no *has an heart attack rgabs deiffbilator shocks himslef*
Thats jsut stupid i h8 marines.
Also i must sort of disagree with the newbie/noobs theory.
Newbie and noob r the exact same. Cus most kids who get there first model and first codex/army book etc always goes for the biggest and baddest lookign mdoel for that army and think they cna win jsut my getting thsi mdoel 2 fight(in some case this can be true Titan :( ) but later on they relaise that was no fun and start actually thinking of those small weak units that they coudl use to have a laguh and start maturing in a gaming sense.
Thats my theory on it all P.s Fantasy has jsut completley mvoe form my local store its gap covered by lotr(bah).