I'm trying to help a friend make a reliable list(I'm no empire player, VC and Lizzies are my burden) and this is what we have come up with:

CHARACTERS:
Count Luthor von Kempenreich(elector count)
-barded steed
-lance
-dawn armour
-enchanted shield
-holy relic
(goes with swordsmen)
he's mainly there for the leadership and to supposed to suck up magic cause he will be mounted in a infantry unit and such can be targeted, and he will bounce of most enemy fire(1+ rerollable save and 4+ward, so he will spare the rest of the troops...

Willhelm von Kempenreich(warrior priest)
-barded steed
-great weapon
-heavy armour
-icon of magus
(goes with knights)
mainly there to make the knights immune to fear so they are more reliable, waste of points(and probably gameloss) if they flee a the wrong time and add a dispel dice, duh

sir heinrich von Kempenreich (captain)
-BSB
-Banner of Sigismund
-Full plate
(goes with spearmen)
Goes with the spearmen to make them stubborn, duh

Zaibach(battle mage)
-2x dispel scroll
(goes with swordsmen)
scroll caddie...

we didn't want great combat guys(no herohammer) but instead made 'em support the army, better fluffwise :thumb:

CORE:
Swordsmen (27)
-standard bearer
-musician
-12man freecompany detatchment
-griffon standard(cheesy, but we wanted it to be reliable)
this unit along with the count and mage has unitstrength 30 and with the banner we are talking one tough unit :D

spearmen (24)
-champion
-musician
-8man swordmen detatchment
with the banner of sigismund the unit is stubborn, thats makes for a unit that can stand some punishment ;)

Knights of the inner circle (7)
-champion
-musician
-standard bearer
-banner of valour
with the icon of magnus and banner of valour here they are very resilient and together with the pistoliers they make up the flank(more on that later)

SPECIAL:
2x Great cannon
heavy punch(duh) and a magnet for the enemy...

pistoliers (5)
they flank with the knights

great swords (15)
-champion
-musician
stubborn so they won't flee that fast, small unit because of point shortage...

RARE:
hellblaster
hmmmm, I wonder why we incuded THAT in the list :P
______
1998pts

the idea is to use the oblique flank strat, for you who don't know it we inted to put the cannons(protected by the greatswords) on one flank so the enemy will be focused on them. then have the big blocks in the biddle and go around with the knights and pistoliers(quite rough explanation, but hey ^_^ )

all the infantry units are either stubborn or have the griffon banner so they will be forces to be reconned with, and the knights are fearless, so they are very hard to(especially against evil races thanx to the priest) and the pistoliers aren't supposed to be on the frontline, cause they are hiding behinf the knight's so the can come around and flank charge the unit the knights are charging(that gotta hurt ;) )

is it pure crap or really good(or something in between)...
the focus is the reliability of the infantry blocks, so are they to weak or good enough?

I might add again that I'm not experienced with the empire :( so don't be to rough...

-EDIT: we scrapped the fluffy hunters(they will never forgive us :unsure: ) and put in 5 additional greatswords + a lance for the general

and 2 questions, this army is only 102 models, is thats to little for empire or something, and do you think this army would get good army composition scores a a tourney? I might add that we got some good fluff for it ^_^

It looks like a good list, as long as your knights dont flee in panic. (Cant they take a banner that makes them immune vs. panic?)

Id reduce the swordmen and spearmen by a few models to get a few more greatswords though.

Another thing:
I hate to argue against creative and original ideas, but putting your elector count on a steed with the swordmen so he'll be shot at the whole time is a very far fetched idea.
Id leave out the horse, it will make your general safer (artillery wont care about his 1+AS) and thus maintain high LD for your infantry longer, and as a side effect give you points for further 2 greatswords.

the good sides are numerous with a mounted general he can charge single characters between regiments(don't you hate those) and your point about artillery? don't the enemy point the big things were they want? so a footslogger ain't no protection gainst that...

for some statistics

if someone aim a fiery blast with irresisteble force at you swordsmen and roll 12 hits(!!!!) 8 guys will die and of them 1/3 will make their armour save, thats 2.5
so five to six guys will die.
on the other hand if he's tempted to aim at the character:
12 hits of whitch 6 will wound he will save 5/6 of 'em on the first try(thats 5 wounds) and 5/6 on the second(reroll alá dawn armour), so on average 0.2 will get throu, and he will ward 1/2 of 'em, so 0.1 wound in him(ouch! :D ) so you can say on average that every 120th st4 hit will wound him

and afterall, it's cooler with a mounted character and he is the centerpiece(shame not to field a griffon) :clap:

would it be better to change the priest for a captain with the powersword,enchanted shield, fullplate and barded steed, and add the banner of valour, that way the unit is immune to panic and has a really hard CC character(tho we didn't want that in the first place), this way we get one dispell dice less(and that's bad) BUT we save 10pts(w0w)

There is a whole article of cav characters in infantry units at this link:

http://www.warhammer-empire.com/war_mounted1.htm

Well this Tim walker guy seems to know what he's talking about(having the same oppinion as me and all B) )... as you see he is pointing out the same things as I am, and he IS right, ruleswise anyway. and it is up to each one of us to make up our own mind...

Hmm, well I dont agree with everything that Tim says, e.g. I still regard warmachines as pretty dangerous for the mounted characters.

Still it was interesting to read about the tactical possibilities, and I decided that I will try out that tactic soon too -_-

About the priest and the cav - Id keep the priest, as the DD might be important. But Id definitely include the banner of valour. With LD 8 your cav might flee after the first shot against them if youre unlucky. I feel that such an imporatnt and strong unit must have protection against such desastrous possibilities.

Yeah, you are probably right there but I don't know what to cut. the valour is an extra 15pts after all... but maybe if I swap one detatchment for a 10 strong freecompany detatch, thats 6 points... and I already had 2 so thats 8pts, 7 to go...

... which you can get by taking one spearman or swordman less. Ok, that means that the affected unit wont be a 100% geometrical shape at the beginning of the game, but hell, we dont have to get too pedantic.

Other possibilty: Take a pistolier less. If you have five or six wont make so much difference.

done and done... scrapped a pistolier for a banner of volour, a musician for the knights, and I switched the swordmen detatchment for a 12 strong free company detatch. quite nice huh :thumb: . and now! on to the testing

Sounds like a good solution. Good luck then for you and your friend!

personly I think you are missing one important thing.....Handguners. One detatchmement should do the trick

Luc_Arkhame Edit: Text Removed