A few of you may have watched this, it's a documentary covering the fallacies in American politics, as well as debunking many religious theories. I do not post this to offend Conservatives or religious people, your ignorance is of your own doing.

The movie's rather long (Well over 100 minutes, if I remember correctly), you can search on Google video to see the 3 parts separately.

Part 1 Discusses religion, and it's general idiocy (my opinion)

Part 2 discusses the American government, particularly in entertaining the theory that 9/11 was an inside job, which I didn't believe until I saw this video. However take this section with a grain of salt, there are a couple erronous/false video clips that are regarded as fact (the one where there appears to be explosions coming from the WTC building as the plane collides with it is a notable one), however, most of the statements are sound, and put together, they lead me to question what really went on that day.

Part 3 Discusses the American Economy, how FIT Returns are not only unconstitutional, but also unenforceable (I have no other evidence as to this, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's true), as well as the vile nature of the Federal Reserve Bank (which in fact, isn't really all that federal, it's mostly just a private bank with strong ties to the government.) As well as the Media's control over the populace to misinform and disorient the people, so that they don't know what's going on in the upper levels of society.

Please post your personal opinion on the movie, as well as any arguments you have for or against anything it has to say. Personally I agree with most, if not all of its major viewpoints, and I'm keeping a link to it in my sig from now on. (though admittedly I need a better line for it)

The Zeitgeist Movie

Umm nice job fucking that statement up. If you dont wanna offend people dont call them ignorant. First of all fuck you people who try to force your OWN god damn atheism on people. You're just as god damn ignorant as the missionaries that force religion on sick, starving people, not that it's all bad, they atleast try to improve their lifestyle. Second of all, religion ISNT A FUCKING PROBLEM. It WAS when people were burning and LOOTING in the fucking crusades, but that was more then FOUR HUNDRED years ago. People don't use the dirty word "cult" to describe Christianity anymore because it's actually HELPED people. It's given people a common ground. So what if it's a plagiarism of other religions? The reason it's so damn popular is that it integrates most people into one happy family. I'm not big on religion but STOP FUCKING FORCING YOUR FUCKING IDEALS ON OTHER PEOPLE.

Its nice how you just skimmed through a terrible film made by two stupid college men.

Ironically, this just makes you look ignorant. You make it sound like Liberals are perfect, when they aren't. Also. Being religious makes you ignorant? What?

And nice way to flame against another member. I don't care about your religious or political position, if you have something to say, say it nicely. Swearing your head off and insulting someone is no way to gain yourself respect, and if this were an argument, I would take his side over yours, merely for the amount you insulted him. That's a warn, and a lesson. Bitch at people, but do it with respect.

As for this movie, I've only watched part one, as your American government and such don't really interest me, however Part one was quite interesting, showing all these religions with the same basis as Christianity, and just the fact that it does tie in with Astronomy so well.

But still, people, stay civil about this. If it offends you, then just ignore it.

I said I didn't post the video to piss people off. I on the other hand, have no problem with doing so.

No burning and looting? It might not be burning, but what about the lynching of homosexuals in the late 90s by fundamentalist christians. Looting? What about the fact that the religious hierarchy is constantly asking for donations (though in and of itself, I don't see that as harmful), and many preach you're not worth as much as a man who does donate if you don't.

You said RIGHT after you said that religion is "Ignorant" and that it was filled with "idiocy" you're calling the largest religion on the planet a pile of crap and in turn calling the beliefs of 33% of THE WORLD total lunacy. That's a whole lot of people you're calling idiots. Besides it isn't religion that's the problem it's people who do stupid shit then hide behind it so that people think it is.

Everyone in the world is an idiot. Even me, even Einstein, Hawking, everyone has that thing that makes them seem like a complete retard. But even so, I just said religious PEOPLE were ignorant (there are very few people who change religions TO Christianity, unless it's from one sect to another.) I said RELIGION was idiotic.

I think Maple Story is idiotic, but people still play it.
I think Harry Potter is idiotic, but people still read it.
I think Veganism is idiotic, but people still participate in that.

I'm not going to call you stupid because of what you do, but I'll more than happily call what you do stupid.

If you don't like my views on religion, bugger off, it's my opinion. If you don't like the movie's coverage of religion, skip it on Google video and just watch parts 2 and 3. Don't dismiss the entire thing because you disagree with one statement.

Gee,thanks.
I usually don't care when people don't like religion in general.
But please don't insult me.

I bet you loved Loose Change.

I honestly don't know where to start with you or the movie. Get a clue, kiddo.

First off, the comparisons to Christ struck me as odd, because having studied world religions for twelve years, I had never come across those comparisons. Here are two facts that set a pattern for these claims.

I checked every one of those figures. None of them held up to the claims made by the Zeitgeist punks. Bullshit debunked.

As per December 25th, it's a fact that Christian missionaries in Europe needed a way to make Christ seem more familiar- the Winter Solstice as a birthday was an easy choice as Yule was already widely celebrated by Germanic tribes.

Sargon of Akkad, the "Original Moses", was an actual king. The tabs detailing his birth and early life are not complete.

Onto the Ten Commandments. These laws were present in dozens of ancient societies because they are common sense. I do not see how this disproves God.

Honestly, this is the biggest pile of bullshit I have seen since Loose Change and I am heartily embarrassed that this exists. It is an affront to decent, common sense.

Did you expect not to offend anyone with that? I've beaten people for less. Your ignorance of fact lies in your gullibility. You watch this Loose Change knock off and it fits your ideas so rightly you don't DARE double-check it for facts.

You really, really piss me off. I don't care if it was your intention or not.

Your ignorance lights my conviction aflame.

edit: then again i rose above all this a long time ago, why go on about it now. Only gonna bring me grief

Why is everyone focused on the religous part? I thoguht the 3rd part, about the economy and gavernemnts was more interesting. I'd look up the facts, but I'm too riddled with sloth.

CB- 1.) Ya, but there were a few things in the religious section I know to be defifntely true.

2.) Saying that the 10 Commandments and similar works are "common sense" is kinda stupid.

Bullshit, that's a common set of laws. The latter seven are the most frequently committed crimes, therefore it's common sense to make laws regarding them.

And, if you want to point out what you know to be true, please, do so, and back it up with facts and references.

Okay, let's break it down.

Okay, they're your beliefs, stick to them, i guess. I can't really argue that one.

Again, your doctrine, stick to it.

Ditto.

See above, etc.

Makes sense. Respect your parents, if they respect you. It shouldn't be conditional, but if they've raised, provided and took care of you, it's common courtesy to return some thanks and not take it for granted.

Common sense.

If you're married, stick to your commitment, or get a divorce. Sleeping around solves nothing.

Common sense, again. don't take what does not belong to you. Don't do to others what you don't want done to you.. Hey, that one sounds familiar, too. HMMM.

Again, common sense, see above.

Again, it aint your shit. Common sense.

Common set of laws, which make sense and hold water. a few of them, maybe not, but the majority of them? Pretty much in every lawbook across the globe.

At least some moderate liberals decided to take a run at religion, rather than the standard far-right Libertarians, like Penn and Teller.
I think there's definitely room for some very rational criticism of religion, but it needs to be completely separated from politics, as that really turns people off.

Also, it ought to be said that criticism of religion should in no way apply to the religious themselves.

i dont know. from what i see its mainly the religious who screw things up.

So, extremists represent the entirety of a group of people? You must live in constant fear, with all those disgruntled postal employees out there.

no i actually do mean the religious in general. We have to all take responsibility for being too lazy with our religion or taking it too seriously. A religion comes from a very good idea, but we tend to expand on that idea and mess it up. BUt hey theres more to it than that.

Or at least those who twist words for their own usage, amongst other things.

religious word twisters not = fanatics. [though its true the other way round].

ill leave now, my senses are tingling.

I would absolutley loved to have offended someone with my statements. What I didn't want to do was have people get so gnashed up with the 1st sections they don't discuss the other 2, the ones that actually have any importance whatsoever.

As an Atheist, I really don't give a damn whether anything denouncing religion is credible or not, unless I'm planning on using a resource in debate, I need not make sure it has any factual value if it agrees with my beliefs.

Maybe I need to check my facts better on the whole, but although I may have implied that the statements in Part 1 of the movie were true, I never directly said I had taken them as such.

I'm incredibly frightened Bill, whatever will I do now that I've made you angry?

Conviction, shmiction, Bill. You and your religion don't scare me.


Mankind's moved beyond the need for God, and soon Federalism, I can only hope to see the day where we can get rid of government altogether, without people who have any inclination to harm one another, people born not to view greed as a "tool", and without people like you getting a hair up their asses over the fact I don't believe in your big imaginary friend in the sky.

So you admit to PURPOSELY trying to offend people? You can't say you weren't trying because you were. In other words you can't love to have an effect of something you did without you atleast striving for that effect. game over man GAME OVER

Keep dreaming, kid. The world's not going to change any time soon.

Honestly, I don't care whether you believe in God or not, but the second you start demeaning my values and beliefs and acting as if you're smarter or better for your lack of God is the moment I consider you a moronic disaffected teenager. Your snide bullshit does not impress anyone. Your lack of regards for other's beliefs does not impress anyone. Just about everyone with half a brain here thinks you're full of shit.

And next time you think religion can't hurt you?



Someone might just reach out and remind you.

Because the thing you don't realize, Cyclone, is that if mankind had really, truly evolved beyond the need for God, we'd have moved past God already. Unfortunately for you, that honestly won't be happening any time while you're alive. You can take that to the bank.









I really hope that someday you'll grow up and join us in the real world.

then you have become just as ignorant as the zealots whom you argue against, I am an atheist too, however I don't see the point in throwing insults in peoples faces about why their religion is dumb. It just annoys me when anyone of any belief gabs on about why other groups are bad. Why do it? it only elicits arguments and negative response generally. So just calm yourself and leave it be, if you're so confident in your atheism than you should be comfortable enough to let christians go about their business without throwing stuff in their face, honestly, just because you don't believe in a deity doesn't mean you have to tell others that they are wrong. It's pointless, they will still keep their convictions, and you just end up looking like the very thing you dislike.

Guys, guys. Keep it down. The original point of the topic was not, Atheisim vs. Christianity. It was to review a movie which points out views it has found, though not credited where the findings came from.

As I've said before, I have not viewed the other two parts, so I will make no mention of them. As for the first part, involving religion, I believe it was more about tying Christianity to Astronomy, than promoting Atheisim. Keep the religious debates down before someone gets hurt. I don't want a massive flame war going on in here, and if any more denouncing of religions go on, I'm going to have to warn someone and close this topic.

It seems like every political documentary these days has a bit of bias in it. I'm pretty sure the last unbiased documentary I saw was March of the Penguins.

I just wanted to make that observation. But this debate seems so one sided, so as the resident swing voter, I'll side with Cyclone.

Just as you are entitled to practice religion, Cyclone is entitled to... Well, not. He has his own opinions about the state of the world, and can express them however the hell he wants. The thing is, he has numbers. Sure, YOU may be a perfectly accepting, rational Christian, but there are simply too many irrational, unaccepting Christians out there. Or at least, there are too many irrational, unaccepting Christians who are prominent in the media.

But just like Cyclone said, the media isn't exactly perfect. The reason you don't see the good people on TV is because the good peope are boring. The ones with crazy views and slightly off balance moral compasses make it into news (and possibly government) and begin to sway the public. Even if there aren't many religious radicals now, their numbers are probably going to rise with time. Then the tolerance police will beat their numbers down, but then they'll just start rising again. It seems that human nature is to believe what it's told. It worked for Mussolini.

As for the 9/11 controversy, again, it's a matter of opinion. Just as you accuse him of calling you ignorant for your religion, aren't you doing the same to him? You need to be careful in calling the theory total bullshit, because you're basically saying the people who believe in it are just as stupid. It's what I like to call the 4Chan/TFS theory.

Remember the times when people kept bashing 4Chan? Then, one of the authorities (I forget which, sorry) stickied a topic telling folks to lay off. If you say 4Chan is stupid, you're saying that all TFS members who frequent there are stupid. Indirect flaming.

The whole Loose Change thing is a matter of belief. It's unproven, but it certainly hasn't been disproven. The fact lies in the middleground and people are asked to choose sides. Don't put down someone just because they disagree with you.

Wow. You people really did NOT get the poiint of the movie. The entire thing was about control over the common people through controlling of their thoughts and beleifs.

They were bnot saying thesim was bad, they were saying religioun was bad, becuase of how it is very pwerful at dividing people on an individual level, and convincing them what to do and who to fight for; whisch is inarguable in itself.

And the whole reason they pointed out fallacies in religious mythology was to try and seperate people from their beleifs, if only for a moment, to consider this.

And as far as the 10 Commandments goes, it's smart and besring you have a sense of humor, funny:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8...earch&plindex=0

One, i'm not religious. I jus' feel people sticking their our in and going "WRONG WRONG WRONG YOU SUCK" isn't on. Whatever floats your boat, either way.

There are many unaccepting, irrational atheists, as well. You can say that in pretty much any field of thought.

No one's forcing you to watch the media. If you can't make your own rational decisions and have to have it brought to you by Fox/CNN/BBC etc's so called "expert opinions", then you get what's coming to you. Human nature is to look out for your own kind, be it creed, religion or family. That's how we work. Nepotism and Xenophobia, etc.

4chan? Well, let's not go there. What was once great, etc.

Are you kidding me? This isn't that hard to grasp.

The video DID NOT diss religious people. It went after religion itself becasue of it's geberal ties to the governemnt and it's effectiveness in controlling people, which is undeniable.

And the media is generally controlled, and used to controll people, as it always has been.

"No one's forcing you to watch the media."

What!? Are you crazy? The media doesn't have some particular location that uoui can jsut avoid. The media is how we recieve information. And in the society we live in, someone could controll everything if only they ahd controll over the television and the internet.

The televison is already taken care of, now there are peope and corporations who want to own the internet.

You see this? The war room? It's a debate forum. We've digressed -well- fucking away from the movie, and as such, the topic has moved on. And no, no one forces you to watch the media. I'm not physically sat down, in front of a news screen, or given my local not so free press newspaper every day and forced to read it. I can choose to watch it, but by no means am i forced.

Also, if you wanted to talk about the movie, and it's message, this should be in the, well, the movies section. As it is in the debate forum, and a debate has sprung up form it.. Well, whoops. Yeah. Heaven forbid people go off on a tangent.

':| Then what other debate is there? All I see are a bunch of people trying to take the high road by saying that all beliefs are equal and we shouldn't talk about them.

And I'm not going to cause I'll probably jsut get banned for "flaming".

And the reason I wanted to talk about the movie is because there were alot of interesting and arguable things which were entirely overlooked and replaced with the ususal, "Beleive what you want to beleive" slogan.

No, no. Not all beliefs are equal. What are norms in a society are seen as, well, superior to other beliefs. Mainstream, no matter how contraversial it may seem to the outside, or those who do not agree with it, is simply that;, the norm in society. The nuclear fmaily, church on sunday, maybe even a family pet. The Amercian dream. Now, take polygamy for example. Not mainstream. Not equal. Seen as a lesser belief, because it's contraversial, according to the norms of society. going against what ones believes in, be It spiritually, Ethically, or socially. One tends to influence the other, and thus, laws and nations tend to reflect in the law what is considered the nrom in society.

Now, i'm going to watch this movie, but let's see, on first impressions, how it's going to roll out.

"Citation needed"

Okay, damn libs, deleting the article.

So it's going to be one of these loose change things cobbled together with video footage, out of quote contexts and lots of "9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 LIIEEES" things, as well as going for the good ol' past time of "Dubya sucks!". The only thing i remotely agree with in the given synopsis is the patriot act being a load of shit. Which it is. The rest of it is the usual Yuppie "Rebel against THE MAN" Shit we've got over and over.

Well, let's get this watching business over with.


Watched it. Oh hell, that was Hilarious. World government? Secret banking cartel? Ahaha.. Great. I haven't had a good laugh in a while.