I've noticed (not on this board) a wee bit of contridiction within certain opinions. Many people hate the death penalty, because 'noone deserves to die'. But the same people also love abortion, killing a living child because the woman does not want to raise it for whatever reason.

Now, if you hate killing people who have killed other people because they can be 'rehabilitated' and become a normal citizen, why is is better to kill a living child who has not even had a chance at life? Does the mother's dislike of the idea of having a child (which is most likely her fault) really overrule a innocent child's life? It may just be me, but it seems that some people don't realize how they're contridicting their own opinion.

Abortion is, of course, a big topic. Many people have different opinions, as you all know. I understand if there's a woman who was raped, or a that condom's .01% of baby kicks in. Up to a certain point, a baby is just a couple of cells, which are a combination of the man and the woman's DNA. Those cells can't think, or feel as we know it. But after a certain point, the cells start to have a brain, start to become much more independant from the mother. Until eventually the baby can feel and think at a basic level. This is what makes abortion not so black and white. Are those cells to be considered part of the mother, or it's own organism? Yet, wheither you agree with abortion or not, it's a good idea to keep it around. Why? Because not too long ago, abortion was illegal, and many women went to alley way doctor's offices for their abortion. Thus, these visits didn't include steril tools or correct methods, resulting in many women's deaths. Would it be better to have abortion legal and have the woman live, or just have the woman die, not really stopping abortion. When you think about it, the situation is just like America's drug obsession.

The Death Penalty, on the other hand, is killing a man for commiting a crime of murder of worse. It is now only used in the 'states for murder cases, not robberies or rape, just murder. You can have a situation where someone robs a bank and kills a bystander. That's two different trials right there. The death penalty is the eye for an eye solution to murder. The problem with the death penalty is the fact that the defendant may not be guilty. He might have been in the wrong place at the wrong time. Therefore, a heavy ammount of evidence is needed to hand out death on a platter. Many believe the government shouldn't have the right to kill it's citizens, no matter what the crime, which is a good arguement. The government is meant to be afraid of it's people, not the other way around.

Now, I don't agree with abortion. At all. I wish people wouldn't go to an alley way doctor, but they will. Which is why abortion won't be outlawed again.

Then there's the flip side of the arguement, i.e. Abortion is bad, death penalty rocks. To defend my opinion, I will explain why it does not contridict itself.

The death penalty is killing a person who's killed another. Abortion is killing a baby who hasn't even been out of the womb. There's a difference between killing an innocent baby and killing a murderer.

There's a lot of factors coming into these issues, which means there will be many opinions. I've tried to be as un-opinionated as I can be when stating the facts, but I don't know everything, and I could probably be wrong in things I have stated. I apologize if I am wrong about any of these things (especially beliefs opposite of mine)

That's just my little observation. Opinions anyone?

((I'm guessing this would go here, it's not a theory or anything. Sorry if this post is in the wrong place))

...I'm not sure if you clarified this in your statement, but at what point is it actually considered "abortion"?

Do contraceptives count...in your opinion? They don't seem to bother you...even though that's not actually abortion...I was just wondering.

[EDIT]

Do you go along with the whole, "when the sperm fertilizes with the egg" thing?

Abortion (in my eyes I guess) is when the egg is already fertilized and is taken out of the womb, either during the early stages of pregnancy or in the later stages. Birth control isn't abortion, it's preventing pregnancy. You're not really killing a seperate being, since the egg is part of the woman and the sperm is part of the man. It's when the egg and the sperm combine to create a completely seperate entity that is not to be part of the mother, but to be a human being of it's own and needs to be taken care of by the mother until it's ready to be on it's own. Birth control is thinking out ahead, thinking "hey, I don't want a kid". I don't give a hootin' hell if you don't want to have a baby, just think about it before you have sex.

No... just... no.

Abortion can only be carried out before a certain time in the pregnancy. Before that point, what is growing inside the woman's body is too underdeveloped to be considered a human being. It's like saying that cheese is the exact same thing as milk.
One plus one does not equal three, my friend.

Thing is about abortion, pro-life people always bring up pictures of ultera-sound and say "hey look, there's a head, it's definatly a human head." Whereas if they didn't point it out to you, you wouldn't know WHAT the hell you were looking at.

There is a massive differeance between a human and a fetues. I think when the thing stops looking like some sort of fish and can be easily identified as a human, by that I mean not having people point out which oddly shaped bump is the hand and which one is the dick, is when the line is crossed.

Or, people could just USE A FRIGGING CONDOM.

Abortion is NOT killing a baby, abortion is killing a collection of cells that are smaller than the your pinky. The thing isn't human unless it is easily identifable as a human.

Plus the woman can dowhatever the hell they want with the fetues since it's part of THEIR body. One thing that always annoyed me about documentries of birth is that they never actually talk about the mother until the child is born. Most you get it's pictures of her stomach.

My stance is this. You want to do it? Fine. I don't care. I, however, will never do it. I find it a sin. I'd always use a condom and contraceptives when I'd have sex. I see this pregnant girl at school ever other day or so. Makes me feel very sorry that her life is going to be hell.

However, saying it has to look like a human is a very loose limit, especially in such a serious debate.

I mean, who determines if a fetus is human enough or not? You?

i think the limit is about 27 weeks, after that, abortion is illegal unless it's an emergency.

I'm for abortion. Let's see, Miss "X" gets raped, and does not want her child, yet Father X wants to keep it for his religous/moral views. Is that fair on the victim?

This is a discussion that should not be on this board. No offense, but some people can be a little touchy and/or enforce their views. It's best we don't have it. Though i will stand and watch, seeing as my humanities Essay is based on Abortion.

I think some people deserve to die, and some don't, not jus' black or white. It depends on what they did, not that they did it.

In cases of abortion, it's roughly the same, although the women that can't get an abortion seem to me as those past the term in which it's possible, as I believe it's the woman's choice what happens to the fetus anyway, not someone with a picket sign saying they're "killing an innocent baby", when no one can say what 'innocence' really is.
On that, it's her morals that really judge whether she'll get an abortion. If she thinks it's killing a life and does it regardless, that's really no one's business but hers.
Lastly, I don't believe a lima bean of mixed DNA is life, and its continuing existence is judged by the mother.

Now, put yourself into the situation: Your girlfriend/wife/fiance is pregnant with your child, and she wants an abortion. What would you say and/or do?

Abortion should be a woman's choice and people shouldn't make a fuss over it if she chooses to get rid of something that she does not want. A woman should NOT be forced to carry a child for nine months if she never wanted to.

I agree. The concept of late-term or (God forbid) partial-birth abortion particularly freaks me out. When there's a difference of hours, minutes, between a fetus and a living, breathing baby, no, screw that. You had NINE MONTHS, within five or six of which abortion should be legal. Up until a fetus can phsyically survive outside the womb, it is, for all practical purposes, a parasite.

The death penalty, though, is just an example of humanity falling back on more primative, barbaric solutions to problems. Regression in the evolution (GASP!) of society. Falling to the level of criminals. I firmly believe that in the case of crime, a government should take moral superiority over those it is disciplining and not simply equal them in bloodlust.

What's the female version of that question? We DO have girls here.

She is female, Redfox. But the majority (don't quaote me on this) are male, here. And the decision IS the woman's in the end, but she would want to confer with her partner about it, right? That is, if the case is a relationship, rather than a rape/incest case.

This brings up a interesting point i'm against it personally my self but what she is rapped and get preganant and doesn't want the kid. I think it should be legal only then otherwise you did it on your own damn fualt so get ready to have a kid numbnuts. But like i said thats my opinion.

Rape is a completely different case. And I'll be first to admit that that's way over my head. In all other cases, though, I think people should be a little responsible and think about having a baby for once, instead if just thinking about themselves. I believe that once the woman becomes pregnant, she's created something that's not part of her. Something with completely different DNA and will some day be a full person. And if you're afraid of that .01% chance , there's another way to prevent babies. Don't have sex.

I understand that it's not much of anything when a baby can be aborted, but I still believe the man and woman should grow up a little and take some responsibility in their lives.

A parasite, yes. Very yes. Even when it's born.

Think of it this way. What if that baby will be the next Ghandi? Or what if it's the next Hitler?

And number 49, don't no no me. It's my opinion. If I was wrong in information, just correct me for god's sake. I even said it in my post. And the sperm or egg would be that milk, and the cheese would be the growth once those two meet.

Well, I put myself into the situation, as if I was the father instead of the mother, and my partner was the pregnant one instead of me. Whatever her choice is, I'd see her through it, essentially, as one way or another, I'm responsible for what happens to the child should it be born, and I wouldn't let her face alone if she chose to have it aborted.


And Lan, what would you have them do, stick a microphone in her uterus to ask the fetus if it wants to live? Really, you're trying to speak for something that doesn't have a voice, only that of the woman they're connected to.

Okay, so here's a few things you've all overlooked:

1) Whether or not a woman wants a baby, that may seem an unjust reason for abortion. (including rape victims) But what about financial problems? For all we know, this baby could grow up in the ghetto, never having enough food. Chances are, this baby is going to grow up and become another burden on society, ending up raping another woman and starting the process anew. Now do you think abortion is unjust?

2) If a woman does not want (or can't have) a baby, then there's the simple solution to all this: Your friendly neighborhood orphanage. Sure, the kid may grow up without ever knowing who their parents are, but maybe they don't want to know their parents. After all, these were the people who didn't want this child, why would he/she ever want to meet them?

Now, I stand sideless on the abortion issue, as the situation varies, and there can't be just one set law for rape victims, penny-pinchers, and teenagers alike. But the death, penalty, I'm more lenient towards the anti side. I'm sure there are lots of people here on TFS with their own life issues, who have all thought once in their lives that death could be better than life as it is now. I know I'd choose death penalty for myself over life in prison. There's also the issue of whether a murderer can be 'rehabilitated' at all. Maybe he/she'd just go out and kill again. Is there any real way to tell?

I never said ask the fetus. I actually said the woman AND the man should ask themselves if they're willing to raise a child, and put that before themselves and their wants. I don't think pleasure should come before responsibility. And I know everyone makes mistakes, but a baby shouldn't be treated like a stain on your shirt, just wipe it away and forget.

And yes, there is always the friendly neighborhood orphanage if you don't have the money to take care of the kid. Either that or have someone adopt it before it's born.

(And dear god, nobody tell me that I can't feel the pain the woman feels in labor. I have had 5 kidney stones, a needle stuck in my SPINE and had liquids taken out, which gave me one helluva' hangover, and more. Can't stand a little pain? one word. CONDOM.)

And the rehabilitation, I don't give a damn how changed someone is now, if they killed someone two, five, or twenty years ago, they should get punished for that. Whoever makes the call that "this person is good now, that means the guy they killed is back with his family!" is an asshole and needs medicine for apparant memory problems..

(and Water, while I don't disagree with the orphanage and rape is a complete different case, you can't predict what a baby will end up like and abort it just because you THINK it may turn out bad. You know what happens when we do that? We all DIE.)