So id like to make sure we are are all together on this.


We need a game theme if any.

I really liked the light theme from pp5, brimmy you and em did an excellent job on that.

Its too early to worry about food but the arrangements from pp5 could be done again with no objections from me. I know I cant really help except to contribute financially or with perishables when I get there.

Field layout is a big one, I didnt mind that field we used for 5 but a different one would be good. My only complaint about it was the friggin grass, weeds and assorted brush. Should I write blue and see if we could get it cut for us on the next event?

The flag stations were great.

The conduct of the game and those attending was excellent.

Since I havent organized one of these before I dont even know where to begin, but I know its not too early to start.

Lets get some theme ideas though so we can start working up flyer ideas and patch designs.

depending on numbers, i'de really like to see the game played in the big castle and Tippman Town. The field we played on the last 2 years (all i've made it to so far) was great, but changing it up would be cool. I think the close quarters combat the big Castle and Tippman Town combined with Pump Play would be cool. I mean its fun at castle when most are shooting 12-15bps, so the same experiance plus less welts would be nice.

I agree the mild theme and simple missions were great this year, nice job guys. The flag stations were also nice, and multiple flags made the field control more difficult in a good way.

I agree with the grass issue, especialy with the rain. Even if you were dry before and after the rain, when you hit the grass you were soaked. I think using the Big Castle and Tippman Town, and have the teams start out on the sides rather than behind each one would make the points of entry for each side almost the same, minus the uphill/downhill area's. Maybe we could even have multiple re-insertion points for each team, liek at 4 corners, or posssibly another strategicaly places area for each team that would be open for certain times of re-insertions.

Just my 2 cents, which is worth more like 9/10ths of a penny :P

We should also focus on fair insertion points for both teams. Being in a position where you can be eliminated immediately out of the deadbox isn't much fun.

are you serious? it's paintball in the woods. there are trees and bushes and grass and dirt. i've gotten used to lazy people complaining about hills, but this is another level. have players all gone soft? i do respect other opinion. i'll just have to chime in with mine. big field with varied terrain, like we've had for the last couple of games is perfect.

insertions were fair, especially since teams switched sides at lunch. hot insertions can be frustrating, but at the same time, they offer another challenge and require organization to get out of a tight spot. it's easy enough to make a rule that creates a no shoot zone outside the insertion spot, but that just means that opposition players will just line up on whatever the line is. there are always arguments about inserting players supposedly shooting too soon and about attacking players shooting into the safe zone. in my experience, it's simpler to run hot insertions. just be prepared with a strategy and oranize your forces.

Yes I am serious.

With no disrespect shadow the first two games the grass was cut for us. Now I dont think you see what im saying though. I am not talking about cutting all of the grass, I am however talking about paths and such. And no this is not out of the realm of decent requests IMHO. And no I dont want to do away with the trees, hills and dirt. I would however like to be able to run or at least walk in areas without getting hung up.

Personally, I find the long grass & thick underbrush very frustrating, as it favours the style of those who like to crawl and snipe, and slows down movement. I would like a little less of it. If we play the lower fields again, maybe we could bring the speedball area back into play? It gave an option for faster movement.

Ok, I couldn't make it this year. But I have been to all the previous years. I remember for sure the first Pandemonium had trails cut into the fields and it was cool. Players had the choice to use or not. I just look at them as free-fire lanes.

I didn't make it this year, but I wouldn't mind playing some of the fields used for PPII. Tippmann Town and the Castle, etc. I too would rather have paths cut in the long grass, so if people wanted to use them they were there, if they didn't that's their call.

jeffy, swampy, and sheazer all know and are describing exactly what im talking about.

i see. cutting lanes is cool. i'm just opposed to clearing the field. the thick stuff does favor more sneaky play, but one can move through that stuff with speed as well. i do it all the time. as long as the field has terrain of every kind, it's cool. i thought the field we played offered both open and thick terrain without favoring one over the other. like you guys said, it's a player's choice to choose a path. some prefer open and some prefer thick.

No offense Shadow, which PP were you present? I only bring it up because PPII-IV had cut paths for the decision of the players to use. I don't think it's a cop out at all, just an alternative. We're trying to let everyone participating have fun, not just hard core grass/woods fellows. PP is about bringing together pumpers to have fun on a huge field where they can find their comfort zone and shoot some people and have a good time. We don't need limitations, just guidelines for PP as far as I'm concerned.

no offence taken. i was at the last two games. i play speedball, woodsball, scenario, etc. i don't see limitations, just different conditions to play under. like i said, i'm cool with cutting paths. i thought you guys were talking about clearing large areas. everyone has their preferences. i definately want to play on a field that offer something for everyone.

*I* am talking about large clear-cut areas. There have always been some pathways cut in the long grass (PP2-PP5), but not many. Old-growth forest has always been my favourite terrain. The play area has always included some of that, thankfully.

I have been forced to miss 2 PP's in a row... I dont care what the field is like in '09, I wont miss a 3rd.


I think we should do a Mini Castle Conquest game on Sunday after PP6... Pump's defending and attacking from Tippmann town

We did that on sunday from PP1.

It was a friggin blast, Sadly I decided to tape it instead of play. I hope thats an option we can have again.

if I remember correctly there were 37 people 8 of them were sent in to defend the castle, the rest had to attack and take control to win. That game went until its 30 minute limit with the defenders holding ground for 90 percent of the time. Defense did win at the end.

I think it would be nice to have a theme that is fun, novel, but isn't a movie.

Any ideas?

I thought the terrain wasn't bad. I tell you, that brush made for some close combat! Some dude crawled into the same bush I was in! :blink:

I though the field layout was good and pretty fair...which is very tough to achieve. One problem with putting the castle and the town in play is now you are starting to put in play some fields that begin to get very far from the bunkhouses. Loooooong walks to the bunkhouse to switch/fix gear, eat a snack, or take a drink sucks...a lot. I don't mind the walk itself but, rather, the time wasted. So do keep that in mind.

We actually had a conversation on the way home about what we could do to even further improve the game for next year. One idea I had about the "hot insertion point" issue is that there needs to be an incentive for a team to pull back, other than refs said we had to or lets be gentlemen. I was thinking something along the lines of if a team controls a vast majority of the flags for a decent unit of time, the points they begin to accumulate becomes less and less until they accomplish a mission or set of missions. This would maybe use up some resources that would otherwise be on the front line.

As far as themes I am usually not a fan of ones based on movies- or at least not one that strictly adhears to one. This pp did a good job of that, mild themes and all and focused more on shooting each other and getting flags.

That being said one right off the top of my head might be something like nintendo versus sega. You have a wide variety of video games to choose from and perhaps could get very creative with some props. (Just keep the red mushrooms away from Colored Cookies! :P ) Or we could do my lil' pony versus barbie...

Anyways, thats something I like...props. I like turning things in for points and such, even if its 1 point at a time.

When I see games being organized like this that are fun, big, and happen a lot, I just want to move to where you all live. Seriously. Or maybe just shoot at you and then come back to So Cal. The weather is just too nice to leave it. But I really want to make a trip to some of those big events that you have.

half-life2? resistance vs. the combine.

I think that a Half-Life theme is totally doable. I just don't know how many people would be psyched about it...

I rented half life a few weeks back. I couldnt understand what the big draw was to it.

Aside from the lackluster game itself id be willing to play a game loosely based on it.

Themes are hard to come up with, good luck to anyone trying to figure something out. People will come regardless of the theme, so anything is welcome. I cant really think of anything myself, but would agree to anything really as long as it wasnt overly complicated. Last years simple format was nice.

I vote Team fortress 2 theme!!! I call heavy gunner!! :D

simpsons theme... shelbyvill vs springfield ...

incorporate things like the lemon tree... there was an episode where they fought over a lemon tree...

heck there were lots of "competitions" if you will between the two towns... pick a few of them as props or holding points...etc...

with all the simpson fans we can probably search "shelbyvill vs springfield" and get a list

I don't know why I didn't think of this earlier, but it only now hit me like a sack full of AIDS.

Well we all want a theme for the Scenario lite game of Pump Pandemonium that everybody can enjoy. Even if you haven't seen the movie or played the game, the concept is solid and easy to get into.

So my suggestion is based off the new 360 game Left4Dead. It's the Zombie Apocalypse. How easy would that be to write? It writes itself. If we have overall support of the majority on allowing special role characters would could add in the Boomers, Witch, Tank.

Those that have the game can get into it instantly. And anybody who hasn't even heard of it understands Zombie Apocalypse and can hit the ground running which Mythbusters totally sucked at, they totally ****ed up by hitting it running in the wrong way, plus using a zip line that had them wobbling like straw in a strong wind... but I digest. So that's my suggestion.




Or we could just do Pirates VS. Ninjas?

only thing about L4D is the 4 survivor thing... as said they could potentially be special characters, and must tag in groups of players to bring them into play. While special zombie characters must do the same. And of course the living dead would have to have more people.. 2 or 3 to 1 odds...

Id be up for it :P

i vote Left 4 dead who doesnt love zombies iv been fighting tooth and nail trying to get a Resivior dogs game going but its not happening anytime soon




the only cool thing in halflife 2 was the gravety gun thats about it

no you'd start with only a few zombies... barrel tags and you have to switch teams... though regulating that would be a pain in the butt ...

Rather than tagging people in, we could set up the survivors in small units in different parts of the field, with objects to hold or capture certain points, while the zombie horde comes at them. The zombies should outnumber the survivors, but there's no reason to stick to 4 survivors. We would have to organize who was where at certain times, maybe play things like smaller mini-games. I know there were MCBers who have wanted mini-games as Saturday play.

Overall, it would not be that difficult to set up multiple insertion points. People can still go off the field, get paint and air and come back in with no problems. With say, hour long campaigns, we can work in the down time that is necessary to recoup in early August heat, while still keeping things interesting all day long. With a little imagination, we can set up different parts of the field like the campaigns in the game (airport, house in the woods, etc) with points for survivors to capture or hold. Insertion points can be on field, so that after so much time, as long as their are still survivors, dead players can come back in.

Obviously, we'd have to think it through and plan it out carefully if we want it to go without a hitch, but if we have enough people in attendance, I think we can make this PP lots of fun for everyone without getting too scenario-y or replaying capture the flag over and over.

Noodles and I discussed this a bit last night and we think the Left4Dead theme can really work. It's just a matter of taking some liberties with game mechanics and fitting them to what we want to do.

First off, we can break the game up into smaller 1-hour scenes. Perhaps five stages like in the game. Have four "teams," about 50 people, with each team playing the survivors on one of the first four stages and the other three playing the zombies against them. The team with the best performance of the first 4 stages plays as the survivors in the final stage.

The first 4 stages will be a simple point A to point B dash. Get your people into the safehouse alive and stay there to score points. The stage ends either when all survivors reach the safehouse alive or the hour expires. For every survivor that reaches safety, their team scores one point. In the event more than one entire team makes it to safety, the team that did it in the least time will win. In the event of an exact tie, the team that got their first survivor to safety the quickest will win.

The final stage will be a defense against the zombie hordes to await "the chopper" (time expiration). The survivors will have a defensible position (such as the Castle) with the zombies attempting to overrun and defeat the survivors. Survivors will respawn but will be limited to a certain number (say, 100 respawns plus the initial insertion for a team of 50 people). No respawning in the last 5 minutes. Zombies will respawn at set intervals (waves). At the expiration of time, every survivor that's on the field and still alive will be the winners. Perhaps all the winners will get entered into a special drawing or something?

No matter what team you're on, if you're hit and it breaks, you walk off the field to your spawn point.

Because the survivors will be outnumbered 3 to 1, they will be given the following advantages:

* Both the first insertion area and the final safehouse cannot be entered by zombies. You may shoot out of the safe areas. You cannot be killed if you're in the starting safehouse (since you would just immediately respawn), but you can be hit if you're in the final safehouse and have to walk back. Final safehouses will have enough secure area that you can just sit tight in and not worry about getting hit if you want to do that.

* Survivors respawn immediately upon reaching the starting safehouse. Zombies will respawn every 10 minutes at various insertion points scattered around the field. There will be three insertion points, with each opposing "team" using its own point (so that zombies don't just all pour out of one location).

* Zombies will be limited to carrying one hopper or its equivalent of paint. Ballpark 200 rounds, on your honor. You can resupply at your insertion point without needing to wait for the respawn time, but don't go out with an autotrigger and 5 pods is pretty much the reasoning. Stock players can carry 20 tubes, limited players get 3 or 4 little pods and those with open class guns can go out without a pack on. That should be more than enough paint to get you through 10 minutes of pump play while discouraging serious hosing. Survivors may carry as much paint as they like, but be aware that it'll slow you down. (NOTE: We can reduce the zombie loadout to 50 rounds if you'd like to see a lot more barreltag/"bite/claw" attempts.)

* Only survivors will be permitted to use grenades.


Fields:

We need four stage fields and one final field. I think the final field should be the Castle, just because that makes the most sense. Also, there are no set boundaries on the fields, but the property line of EMR does constitute a hard border. You can get to the safehouse using the most roundabout trail that you wish, keeping in mind that you're limited on time and that the zombies will be spawning in set locations so there's no reason to go completely across to the other side of the field. Some ideas for fields:

* Start at the downhill entry to Hanse's Hollow, finish in H-trench (use the two buildings on the far side). Zombie spawn locations will be in the middle/back of Hanse's Hollow, on the Castle side of H-trench and the third near fort F-troop.

* Start at PC Acres, finish at Bonehead's Castle. Zombies spawn at culverts above the speedball field, at the far end of the road by the trapper's camp and behind/downhill from Boneheads in the far woods.

* Start at the Airfield tower, finish in the center building of Ft. Worr. Zombies cannot use the second story of the walls of Ft. Worr but they may be inside (just not in the center building). Both upstairs and down are considered safehouse areas of the center building. Zombies spawn at the downhill end of the speedball field, towards the pond downhill in the woods and in the open field behind Boneheads.

* Start at Ft. F-Troop, finish at the top of the hotel in Tippmann Town. Zombies are permitted in the bottom of the hotel but cannot go upstairs. Zombie spawn points are in the woods by the defenders' netting by the Castle, in the spool field by the landing craft/front entrance and in the woods downhill from the town towards where the Castle Attackers' insertion would be.


I think that will create some really intense, dynamic firefights. Giving survivors the ability to shoot out of the safehouses (just like in the game) will make sure they don't get ambushed right out of the begining and then get "spawn camped."

I like paint limits for zombies and I'd love to say ballpark it at 50 rounds but I understand that 200 is more reasonable, even if you let people resupply whenever they want without waiting for the respawn time.



Thoughts?

EDIT - I just wanted to point out that while I understand the push for "just minigames," we should all be aware that going to that format completely, without any overarching sense of gameplay or schedule, would result in a lot of lost play time. We would not get everyone on the field all together and we'd have a lot of delays while people got gear ready. We have minigames on Sundays and they're always a mess getting people to gear up and get on the field. We have a lot of people coming from a long way away and we owe it to everybody to have a good game.

I think this is a good compromise that allows people to play in short(er) 45 minute or 1-hour segments with 15-20 minutes' break in between yet still maintains a big game feel and has a little bit of competition in there too. It's a different format than in past years to keep things fresh but there are no funky rules, no medics and no auto-kills like Nerf rockets or whatever. It can be played with a minimum of reffereeing (which is what we'll have) and we don't even have to worry about props or flags. Scoring is a breeze, we only really need one guy with a stopwatch to keep it all together, and it's simple enough that even a hungover old fart with bad knees can play it. :ph43r:

I think thats an idea that everyone would easily understand, and would not be too hard to do.

I like the idea of the survivors holding certain objectives, spread out at game start. I'll go one further and suggest that the last survivors killed in a base that is overrun become zombies. Eventually the zombies will have a small group of survivors surrounded at one well-defended base.

-zombies start at a single main base, and begin roaming at the whistle
-survivors start at four or five small bases, and may not leave them until engaged
-survivors get points for each base as long as it holds out
-once a base is in combat survivors may abandon it for a better base
-survivors may re-spawn at any "live" base
-survivors shot at a base that is being overrun (i.e., still inside the base when the last survivor is shot) become zombies and re-spawn at the zombie home.

NOTE that this idea needs more referees than we had last time, at least one per base.

/
I suggest that all zombies wear a white t-shirt to make them easily identifiable and non-stealthy. In bulk we should be able to get these for about $3 each. Tell people to bring their own, and the organizing committee can bring a couple dozen to sell to the forgetful for $10.

I may be getting ahead of things, but would there be interest in t-shirts or bumper stickers, rather than patches for this PP?

I *think* I could get t-shirts done for less than $10 a piece and stickers for less than $2.

I definitely think we should have something, because we haven't had patches for a couple years.

I got my brains eaten at PPVI and all I got was this lousy t-shirt.

T-Shirt, Patch, anything really. I have a patch from the Fall Combat Classic at West Point and thats it.

we are forgetting the best part about L4D




Smokers,Hunters,Tanks and Witches


how are they going to be incorparated into the game?

In order to do that, we'd need to change or add a lot of rules. That's generally a no-no for PP games.

PPII had a lot of special rules and people attributed the complexity to the game not running very well. Since then, we've been very much against using anything other than standard paintball rules (that is, hit and break and you're out, no other way to get you off the field excepting barrel tags or surrender).

If everyone wanted to, we could do whatever we liked. Tanks that take multiple hits to put out of the game, boomers that have an air horn or noisemaker to alert the hordes (which, arguably, any player could do anyhow), witches that can't be killed but that don't attack until they get hit first or something like that.

It could be fun but it's a lot more roleplaying and special rules than most people are willing to stomach in a PP game.


Remember that we have a good number of people pushing to not have a scenario at all.

is there really such a big push to get rid of the big game? my team loves pump play and loves scenario. the big game game at this event is why we make the drive. large field, multiple objectives, freedom of movement, freedom of time. a player can sneak around, easily find a fight, attack, defend, whatever. mini games kill the whole big game feel and herd players into a particular style of play, despite attempts to make it dynamic. in the end, i fear it'll turn to four identical mini games, with overall play time lost. last year's format was excellent. not too simple and not too complicated, with lots of options. why kill it? there are regular rec games on sunday. also, you guys mention that this new format is a compromise "without getting too scenario-y", yet if you look at it, you are creating a very specific scenario (even white t-shirt costumes proposed). <_<

With PP6 six months away at this point, we're just trying to form ideas for what PP6 could be, which needn't necessarily be the same or different as the games before it.

The great thing about PP is that we as a forum and those on MCB who add their input can create a game format that won't necessarily please everyone, but can take into account the ideas of the community.

The people who actively put on PP every year by working with EMR, contacting sponsors, and putting in hours writing rules, scenarios, and working on the field could decide to put on whatever game they want they way they want it every year until ousted from the position, or we as a community can make it a more democratic process.

Right now nothing is decided on, so anyone who has opinions or ideas on the format should put them forward.

There will be some people who like having scenarios, some that don't. I think instead of compromising every game by repeating the same format every year that doesn't really please anyone, we can change the format every year until we find something that does please everyone.

You make an good point of changing things up until something that please everyone (or as close as possible, because 100% satisfaction isn't going to happen) is found. Were there problems with last year's format? It was certainly more dynamic, diverse and fun that '07 and certainly better play than the pirate scenario a couple of years ago.

I have no idea of who/what/how behind the scenes work of this game. I am thankful that this game gets put on and am hopeful that it continues to be something my teammates and I will want to attend. We're just the public and if there's a vote needed from the public, then it's 10 votes for big game format as opposed to mini games. If opinions on proposed format or ideas about any other format are welcome, I'll contribute as I can. If not, I'll just pass the info to my team and we'll decide if it's something that we're interested in playing. Just like any other game out there. No worries, it's all good.