Yeah, I'm looking for a good pistol to carry around as a sidearm, and also for those times where I wanna drop the Phantom and own with a semi :D.

I was looking at the Tac 8, and everyone recommends it, but it's price is pushing me away from it.

Anyone recommend a good pistol for me?

I'm a Phantom owner, so I have some high expectations I guess....


I'm looking for something that can give me at least 20 good shots, is not extremely bulky, moderately consistent, and not as expensive as the Tac 8.

Thx :D

Mil-Tec Zeus, hands down.

Have to agree with Murf.

I've got 2 T8's that I use and a Squall. I've owned a couple of Zeus pistolas as well. As nice as it is to reload quickly with a T8, they're not really as good for long games.

You can pick up a Zeus (or clone) new for around $100 or less if used. The only reason I sold my two Zeuses was because the velocities were always way too high, even with cut springs. So unless you feel like dropping a few hundo on a Squall, the next best thing from the T8's are the Zeus clones (which are all mostly just PT Enforcer clones anyway, but better).

Why arent they good for long games? Ive ran whole scenarios with nothing but the Tiberius... no issues.

just curious ... how many mags did you carry?

how did you reload the mags on the field?

I assume you waited till there was a time you were able to reaload without being shot at ... guess you just have to play smart and time things to where you can break out away from the gunfight when the mags are low reload them and make your way back ... i dunno ...

After you finally purchase your pistol, unless you use it as your primary, or play pistol games, it will never leave your holster.

You must force yourself to play w/ just the pistol, and you'll have a blast...

Well, to the reply above...


Why would I force myself? I'm already coming back from a limited paint background.

I'm actually looking at pistols because there's this guy who plays at our field wearing a Ronin Suspender harness and a pistol with a holster

Not sure what pistol it is, but it does resemble a Ariakon pistol, and has threading so you could screw in a spyder barrel.

I want one because of the cool factor that comes from playing with a pistol. I play with a Phantom and have a blast too, but I'd want to up the cool factor.

"Look at that dude. he shoots a phantom AND a pistol. Way to limit yourself."

Also, the guy just moved up to hell on the speedball field and totally dominated.

If you really want to limit yourself, get a pump pistol, it's all I play with actually. :)

Well, I said in my first post that I wanted to have a semi to use when I get tired of pumping the phantom. I just can't afford to dish out the money to pay for a huge expensive speedball set up.

I mean, I already use 12 grams and 10 round tubes, so the switch to a pistol like the Zeus wouldn't be too hard. That's why I asked if I could get 20 goot shots.


So yup. I was going to get a pgp, but pump pistol is extremely limitting. The pistol for me would be my kickback gun when I'm getting tired of the limitted speed of the Phantom.

I carried 4 mags last scenario. I reloaded from 8 round tubes. Carried a full ronin harness of 8 round tubes and 12 grams. Rocked and rolled.

Im just looking for a setup that will let me carry all 12 magazines.

He has a full case of mags... Lol, he just can't carry them all.

fanny packs. ;)

Thats what they did in Tom Clancy... :lol:

12 mags for tib 8's? wha!! wowzors.. and i thought i was insane for wanting to get two 8's with 3 extra clips for each :P

Well PaPaintballer,
This add-on made me feel four mags was plenty, it speeds co2 change to the speed of paint change,



The lever is held in by a magnet, pull it out, turn it to the side and it makes a great wrench. It's sold by Tiberius.

I use a zeus type Miltec G2 and a TAG8 together for most play and I also feel the TAG can't put out the volume of fire because of the extra steps involved in staying loaded.

For instance this is a pic of me in our team, the Great Lakes Rangers', first game of the SPPL finals in OK. they don't mind me being a pistol player B) .
I was defending our home flag and people(including a hammer double A5) kept reinserting right at me! As you can see in front of my knees in the photos, I shot the 200+ rds I carried, the 200+ rds in my mule pack(I was eliminated at the 2 minute mark and lived the rest of the 1hr game, so one of my teammates brought my pack to me as they inserted.) and I also had to reload 10 tubes from a pod tossed to me by a teammate. That was a performance I couldn't have completed with a TAG, no way!



The ref and the Photog were both cracking up at the constant flow of 10rd tubes into my dump pouch :bang:

Normally I'm not called upon to shoot that fast and I don't, but it sure is nice to be able to when the need arises

Rob

...anyone have an answer to my question with pros/cons of certain pistols, which one in your opinion is good, and other stuff like that?

I'm completely new to pistols so help's still needed.

First off playing pistol is totally different from playing pump. I don't quite feel like articulating it but it's something you'll understand if you keep playing with just a pistol. I will say this so that you can better understand the pro's and con's I'm about to give, the main disadvantage of playing pistol is NOT limited round capacity but the time it takes to reload those rounds. If it took me only a secound to reload 10 rounds somehow I wouldn't really be disadvantaged at all.

So here's my list of guns from the perspective that your going to use it as a main going from cheapest to most expensive

Your common 100 dollar JABB is generally poop, I personally thought they all where until Agent Smith taught me otherwise. The best person for getting information on these is obviously smith, and he uses the G2, but here's my shot at his gun,

Miltec G2 (100ish)
Pros
-cheap
-light
-quick to change 12-grams
-with menial airsmithing skills you can modify it without worrying about destroying something of higher value
-you can get a dummy 12-gram and run CA saving lots of money

-you can switch out the barrel for diffrent bore sizes

Cons
-without menial airsmith skills the gun will be horrible. Smith bored out the barrle on his, I think messed with the internals, and did other homemade mods that individuals without tools or skills, such as myself, can't do
-the o-rings break all the time so maintenance is a PITA

Tac 8 (240ish)
Pros
-quick clip reload
-more consistant out of the box than the G2 (I hear)
-switchable barrle
-most compact gun on the market, thus the best backup IMHO
-lighter than it's more expensive counterpart
-maybe more Co2 efficient out of the box than the G2?

Cons
-reloading the clips takes forever
-reloading the 12-gram, even with the aforementioned "fast" 12-gram changer, takes forever
-the clips cost 35 bucks each and are thus not throwaways. I have yet to find someone with a tac 8 that on the field can really reload faster than me. Also I lose around 50-100 10-shot tubes a season. I can't imagine how much that would be in clips
-clips are bulky and it is thus hard to carry a decent amount.
-does not switch to CA and maintain pistol capability in a meaningful way
-prone to breakdown (totally observation of others on the field)
-reportidly it's easy to break balls when changing out clips
-8 ball capacity

Automag Sydarm (400ish last I checked)

Pros
-mag trigger is sweet
-lightest pistol I've shot
-pretty polished allumium=awesome

cons
-it's a mag on the 12-gram. Prepare for a bit of matenance
-you have to know mags in order for it to consistantly work, I don't
-not gas efficient
-only 8-shots
-light trigger makes it easy to dump the clip without thinking

Palmer Pursuit Shop stroker/squall (squall is slightly more efficient/consistant) (450[stroker]-650[squall])

Pros (both)
-best performer out of box on the marker
-you cannot destroy this gun. I didn't oil mine consistently for the first 3 years
-widgits make it accept a variety of paint sizes except very small
-crazy people like me think closed bolt shoots farther
-nickle is pretty
-actually made in the USA
-Palmers rules
-it's heavy, heavy means reliability, if it doesn't work you can hit someone with it
-1 year warrenty of awesomeness

Pros (stroker, my personal gun)
-is back bottle CA so no 12-grams used. I save money and field owners don't hate me because I always forget to pick up my spent 12's
-is cheaper than the squall
-wieght is more centered on the back of the gun than the squall
-shorter than the squall

Pros (squall, never owned one)
-more consistant
-more efficient
-11 ball capacity makes it easier to always have 1 in chamber
-quick 12-gram change
-resale value is good

Cons (both)
-heaviest pistol listed
-fixed barrel means if small bore paint is the field paint your life sucks
-expensive
-in my experience it will need to be sent back to palmers once or twice to work out the bugs
-need to learn trigger or you will short stroke
-if it breaks you have to send it to cali
-if you tinker with it Glenn will come to your house and kill you
-very limited upgrade path

Cons (stroker)
-don't even try to use 12-grams. I get 500 shots of a 68ci 3000psi tank
-requires a PGP or similar sheridian to make
-someday you'll realize how much you decked out a 100 dollar PGP and feel silly
-resale value isn't great

Cons (squall)
-can only do a bottomline setup for CA w/ dummy 12-gram
-very expensive
-long
-front heavy




A thing to remember is that with every pistol except the tac 8 is that the spring feed and open breach make the gun VERY exposed to the elements. Rain, mud, ridiculous amounts of paintball shells from airball bunkers, etc will get in there. Also remember that no matter what you choose true pistol play is the least catered to style of play in the game. Upgrades for most pistols (except the tac 8 or which most upgrades make it just another hopper gun) are not existent. It was not until recently that someone finally started making speedcaps (wevo) so I don't have to make my own.

I used to say if you really wanted to play pistol and be good at it you needed a highend. Agent Smith proved me wrong on that one. Don't forget though that with a 100 dollar JABB your going to have to know how to modify it right and do endless maintenance on o-rings. After 8 years of play I still can say I have one of the best pistols on the market, a palmers, and if your serious about playing pistol I would strongly suggest this route unless your all skilled and patient like smith. I just see too many problems with the tac 8 setup, mainly it's reliance on a clip fed system that screws you when you run out of clips.

This isn't to say that you can't pick a tac 8 and do well like commando, a sydarm and do well like domenio, or a G2 and do well like smith. For me having a gun that requires almost no maintenance and performs remarkably well is what I needed. A word of caution though there are many pistols, including palmers guns that scatter the landscape like tin cans (now where'd I get that line?). Pistol play is easier than SC but harder than pump. If your looking into it because you really want it go for it, but if you just want a distraction or a sidearm I'd say go for one of the cheap guns out there.

If there's one thing there doesn't need to be more of it's wannabe pistol players. Don't be one of those

^^^^^^^^^^ That was a pretty good recommendation review.

Two thumbs up.

JB.

10 shot, I guarantee I could reload faster than you as long as I had mags.

in terms of ejecting the old clip and securing it and then inserting the new one? I know anyone with the clip system could flat out beat me if they just dropped the clip but with how expensive those are I havn't seen someone just toss one at a big game/scenario.

10-Shot's got some good points there. I love my Squall and while it might be a bit front-heavy, I find that helps it "point" better. The T8's are nice and light but they don't have that satisfying front heft like the Squall that helps out with aiming.

I mentioned before that the T8's aren't as good for long games because unless you're reloading them with tubes and 12 grams, carrying enough mags is difficult because of their weight. 10 mags really weigh you down. That's only 80 rounds if you're not reloading with tubes. BUT with just tubes, you can carry as much as you want (I usually go out with 150 on my capless when I'm rockin' the Squall).

My only beef with the Squall is the fast changer knob being a bit too short. I inevitably get paint all over it and its hard to grip it. Im just going to get a longer knob from Palmers.

Tiberius8 Magazine changes.

No. Like changing mags on any clip/magazine fed pistol, the idea is to hold the new magazine in two/.three fingers of your off hand. You release the spent magazine and pull it out of the gun with your thumb and forefinger and then insert the new magazine immediately after. Once you get that rhythm down, it is super quick and works fabulously well.

STL

As far as tag8 reloads, I prefer using my shirtpocket(because I'm normally bunkered up to reload it) so much that I'm having a pocket sewn into my new team jersey.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOevswRFIcQ

Because of the relative fragility of the tag mags, I like this method as safest.

I concur with 10shot Kid on his model reviews and would add a few things.
The one thing that puts more pistols in the trash or permanently on the shelf is the co2. What he said about

is TOTALLY true for co2 as well as paint.
Once a gun is modified to reload 12grams as fast as paint then it becomes more useful. Systems like the Palmer dropouts and the dropouts on PTs and Deltas, or cruder ones like the side dropout on my Miltec or the bottom dropout on my new WSP:

are a must if you're going to use 12grams, as is a good pierce pin!
Miltecs and Warsensors have the best pierce pins of any of the JABBS(lowend types), but these and other guns(I've also done PTX's and Delta68's) can be modded to use the excellent phantom pierce pins, which last 10 times as long as any other I've tried. Without this mod most of these type guns will give you so much trouble you may get discouraged with them.

Using a tank is another option, either backbottle as 10shot uses or a forward mount like this:


To me, making the feeding of paint and co2 as fast as possible, even if you have to pay someone to do it for you, is an upgrade for any pistol that is more 'worth it' than any board or E-trigger for a regular marker.
Whether it's having the $100+ or so Palmer 'RP'style feed installed on a Squall or filing and grinding a $100 gun, all pistols can be upgraded and made faster. This makes it much more likely you'll get hooked as so many of us have.

The true downfall for me of both the Sydarm and the TAG as primaries is their shootdown in rapid fire.
With either one if you rapid fire a whole 8 shot mag the velocity drops bigtime every shot.
With C/A or slow fire this problem can be fixed, but I'm a 12g guy because I carry multiple pistols at once and can just carry 12gs for all and I can't afford shootdown OR slow fire on bunkering runs.

It'll be interesting to see the next big thing in pistols, the TAG8's been out for a few years, so it should only be ANOTHER 4 OR 5 YEARS! before something else new comes out in pistols.

Crazyboy,
I find the same thing with my P68SC, because originally these guns weren't insta-pierce, that changer knob didn't have to pierce the 12g in an original sheridan so it can't produce enough torque. I drilled holes through it and use a small pin that came with the zeus to stick in the holes and use as a wrench. I've got the pin on a zinger stuck to my glove, see the holes in the changer plug? That's a Fasst changer I got from Palmers.


I'm sold on the Miltec, but if you get a good harness for paint and co2 and practice change until you can do it without looking, almost any pistol can get the job done!

:D
Rob

clip in hand and ejecting the mag into an unsecured pocket I count 4 secounds there. That's deffiently at least 2 secounds faster than me reloading with a secured clip. At some point your gonna have to pull a mag out though and stow that one in your pocket if you don't want to leave it somewheres by mistake :P

Smith can reload his miltech a little faster than me though if I remember correctly :)

Unless Im doing a very leisurely reload, I just drop the mags to the ground and get them later. I may have to clean them out a bit, but that isnt an issue. Ive always got more waiting in the case.

I can do it much faster in game, but I immediately get the mag out of that pocket and into my off hand because it IS too loose. That's like the last step in reloading, after I seat the new mag I take the empty and return it to the mag pouch or the side pocket of my field pants if I'm in a hurry.
The pocket I'm having added to my jersey will be the right size and depth. It will simply be a slit in the jersey with the pocket sewn inside, so it should be far more secure. This method really shines kneeling in a bunker where I have ended up with three mags in that poor pocket.

My concern with ejecting mags to the ground is the lip of the mag and that small sliding bar with the spring that keeps the paint in the mag. If a mag lands on the lip it will crush against that small bar and cause damage to the pin and the mag. I have a mag this happened to and I've never got it working right again. The field I play is fairly hard ground with some rocks.

I'm still devoted to carrying 2 pistols, IMO it doubles your chance of getting out of a real pinch when instead of reloading you just draw your second as you fire off your first. Even if the second is a pump(as I often do) when people hear you gas out on your primary thay can often be eliminated with the second gun as they overconfidently rush someone they think is reloading.


It's all good times! Now my pistols are in the car and it's off to Hell Survivors!!!

Rob

Just spend the money and get a Tac 8. You won't be sorry you did. You may be able to find a used one with some mags on a forum. They are reliable and sturdy. The 12g quick changers are a good add on. I have a dropleg dump pouch that I throw my mags into.