Recently I bought myself a new gun to replace my worn Armotech Zeus G2. I've fired well over 30,00 rounds of paint through the old Zeus and while it's still working okay now, it's days are numbered.
I have had an ACP, a PTX and a Warsensor G2+, all since I got this original Armotech and none have measured up and so I kept looking. Recently Miltec(who were already importing milsim rifle-type markers that were identical and parts compatible with the old Armotech long guns), announced they were reintroducing the original Zeus G2 as the Miltec G2, so I had to see for myself.

I've mentioned at more length in other places why I prefer the Armo/Miltec design to the other JABBs, but I can sum it up as parts availability. All of the other pistol designs are riddled with proprietary threads and proprietary parts and worst of all, proprietary pierce pins! Between 6 mags and enough parts to have a decent toolbox you could spend what a custom piece might cost you!
The Armo and now Miltec read like this. Spyder cupseal, spyder valve spring, spyder valve, cutdown tippmann prolite mainspring and a CCI Phantom pierce pin! The CCI brand pierce pins can last 1,000 changes instead of the average 100 I get with warsensor types(I can replace the seals but the pins wear out) and I can order them from Phantom online or call CCI and get a pierce pin for $6!

The threads for the co2 plug(which for the metric other versions will run you $20!) on a miltec are ASA threads! So any easily available five dollar ASA plug can get you back in the action.

It also still has the M1911 grip frame. I'm a big fan of the 45 grip to put it mildly. I will tell anyone that excels with any other grip, that had they spent the same amount of time training with a 45 grip they'd be a better shot. That's why 96 years after 1911, SIGarms are bringing out a 1911 model true to the original as Smith and Wesson has also recently done. You can't improve some things.


This is a video I uploaded of me test firing my Miltec in the yard. You can see the reloading steps, as I shoot up around 50 rounds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgWcaQZV0Gw

I had to modify my co2 plug a little more after that, it let the last co2 get slightly off center though it couldn't have come out.

Rob

thats pritty sick!

dang your reload time when you had the clip at the ready was a good 2-3 secounds faster than mine. It was neat to see the sydarm style feedhole being used effectivly.

I really like it, too!
It doesn't show in that picture too well because of my cheesy camera, but I don't have to look down at the gun at all because of the lines cut in the weaver rail on top of the magazine.
I just hold the tube a certain way and press my index finger against the gun and silde it until it goes into one of the crossing slots cut in the toprail, then I know I'm in the right spot and the feed hole is countersunk the right size for the outside of the 10round tube, so I can reload that same speed while running and actually faster than that standing still as I usually carry a tube already in my off hand when I'm in the village for instance, where I shoot alot of paint. When I'm shooting further away, where gravity will feed the paint, I sometimes leave the spring out when I'm just providing cover fire.

It's fairly accurate now, but once I get my new FlexHones I ordered(my old ones have all walked away and the kind I use, Brush Research has to special make for me, so it's going to take a month!), I'll be as happy as a mule eating biscuits! :lol:

20 days and counting until opening day at Hell Survivors!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Rob

which flex hones are you getting? i looked at the site and saw that they had some for paintball guns.
I also noticed that you arent using the 1 inch barrel tip. So...I guess it doesnt really affect the accuracy if its not on there.

Also wondering if you have made any mods to the internals like switching out valve stems or valves, valve springs etc?

Actually, I just want to pick your brain for a bit. I'll PM you.

The ones called L/A or Levigated aluminum. The ones that are normally used for steel and brass like the 500AO will rip a cheesemetal pistol barrel open quick! The polishing hone made of L/A puts an unmatchable shine on an aluminum barrel while taking off the absolute minimum. I bought them originally to try to help the unhelpable Eagle 68 and loved how they worked(as opposed to the eagle68)!


No mods so far to the internals, that's one I've never needed to mess with too much, I'm pretty happy with 25 or 30 shots.

I cut off the 8" barrel extension to a stub that doesn't get in the way of the co2 plug, When I get time this summer I will rethread the front for a Tippy barrel like my old one. The barrel ID is .692 and I put a Tippy stub like a compression tip that is .689 on my old one and that helped accuracy some as it took out most of the last of the spin I sometimes got.

Rob

you said that the barrel ID is .692
is that the barrel extension or the internal barrel of the pistol? I know that the internal barrel is large, but i didnt know it was that large. Man, thats huge!

Hey smith. Nice looking marker man. I can't wait for Hell survivors to open. I'm not if I can make it to opening day. I'm buying a year membership so I will be seeing you quite a bit. I can't wait to play with my Sydarm man.

I will be going to the easter egg hunt though and I will be playing on Eggland team for global.

BTE you are a lot quicker with the 12 grams than I could be with my Sydarm. I need to work on my reloads. It only holds 8 but I love the way it feels.


-Spaz/The Tulip

undividedattention,
The TAG8s are .691 and the Warsensor's,ariakon's and miltec's internals are the same, it doesn't seem to hurt them that much, accuracy wise. The stub barrels are .691-.694 mine happens to be a .692. My original Armotech Zeus was a perfect .687

TimmydaTulip,
I was able to play with a sydarm for 6 months or so and my idea, which I couldn't afford to buy to put on someone else's gun, was to make an antisiphon constant air adapter(you may have seen WWA's or Tunaman's plain versions), then pipe it to down in front of the trigger guard. In front of the trigger and mounted to the rail tac-light fashion I would put a Line SI lever changer. Then you'd have the advantage of lever change and way more protection against liquid getting into your valve at the same time. But you'll love the balance and instinctive pointability, so you may leave it like it is. My friend who had one wouldn't sell me his and AGD wouldn't either back then! Not that I'm still bitter :lol:
I'll see you in the JUNGLE!

Rob

Smith. I have the C/A adapter. I am ordering the wingless foregrip for my CCI charger or 3.5 whatever I choose. I am also ordering the barrel adater. A freak back with docs 1 and a 1/2 inch tip. Pistol with a freak kit on it.

Aww, She's going to be beautiful! We'll have to start a search for an old lever changer. I can't wait to see her!

Rob

i just purchased my miltec g2 on extremez it came with a leg hostler too for only 109 dollars!

AgentSmith,
The reloading hole on the magazine , is that something you drilled on the mag or it came that way?

he drilled it, it's mentioned in one of his posts, from what i recall he used a drill press from his work.

i'm looking into picking one of these up myself, gotta figure out how to do the hole as well.

mine should be coming in the mail tommorow im gonna try a vise and a power drill and hope for the best lol

Yeah same here, No drill press just a hand drill and dremel.

Hi guys!
Here's a couple of closer pics.


Edit: I centered the hole in between the two crossing slots that are milled in the mag, if you see what I mean, just half the distance between the two and drill


I did do those on a drill press at work with regular drill bits, though forstner bits or small milling bits would work too. The big secret with anything is slow speed! The cheesy aluminum will immediately heat up and clog the bit you're using if you get things too hot. A little wire brush is great for unclogging aluminum. All I can suggest is patience, patience! I ground the sidewalls out a bit to make it load easier too.

The outer part is a 7/8 that I flattened to make the countersink, the inner is an 18.5mm(bear in mind I found these bits by measuring them up with a 10round tube, smaller bit fits tight inside-larger bit same as the outside diameter of the tube). That makes it easy to size any bits you're thinking of.

The big trick is the spring. The springs in the mags are much smaller diameter than the tube so they will porpoise out of the loading port(not good!).
I work the springs slowly by hand until they are the diameter of the inside of the tube then they won't come out, but I have to shave a bit off of the end plug to give room for the wider spring to compress.

Just to make sure, when I push the mag follower back I cover the port by sliding my fingers along the top rail like this:

Belt and suspenders!

I hope that helps some!
I'd be happy to answer any other Q's or take more pics if you guys would like!

Rob

cool video ... that's pretty fast reloading ...

Beware of the pistoleir!!!

It seems like all of the blowback pistols require somekind of modification to them to make them decent shooters ...

I totally agree with that, Turbo Chicken. I say for anyone who finds the excitement level waning and things getting a little routine, pistol play of any kind is a great way to shake things up but to stay with pistols all the time, requires you to be at least half an airsmith!
Because of the dirt and dust that comes in the common 12gram, combined with the fact that I normally pierce 20 CO2s IN A DAY, I have to totally strip my pistols(completely to the valve, both the TAG and the zeus) every week and clean out the crud that accumulates. Between last week and this week, I've pierced over 50 12gs :lol:
I did get to be a Bunny at the Bunny Hunt though! (my G2 and my TAG on my belt and fleece lined bunny shirt on!)


Good times! 20 Bunnies against 60 or 70 hunters. We took them down to a handful before the last of us were eliminated and a friend of mine found the Easter egg with the free VIP Season Pass(he has one for this year so he'll use it for 2008, that's $200!). A great day for a pistol player, people were chopping and such in the cold, but with my gun Blu-lubed and firing single hits, I was able to get some good eliminations and uphold the honor of the Bunny Clan. Not as well as my friend Kenzo from the Hell Survivor's Mercenary Team in this pic of course :lol:


As you can see, he was shot between the ears. The rest of the hits were the 'bonus eggs' of being outnumbered as the last Bunny standing! The hit that eliminated me was in the side, but I got hit in the back a few times too. Multiple people all firing on us at once, not anyone overshooting! A great game and I can't wait to do it again next year!


Glad to be playing again, even LongJohnned up in the snow!
Rob

i didn't even think about the maintence of keeping a pistol working ... especailly when you are shooting in one weekend the amount of paint that would probably normally not be shot thru it in a year....

so you shot around 1000 rounds ... wow ... now i see the madness

did you just mill open to bottom yourself to make it a drop out? and where can you order the miltec zeus's, i havent found any

Turbo Chicken,
I shot 1,000 rounds but that was in 2 weeks(Playing only the morning sessions til warmer weather)
It's the most important thing to staying with pistols, IMO, Turbo Chicken. Noone wants to have their gun fail them all the time and the increase in paint use over pumps plus the fact that I believe in staying with 12grams means that if I didn't completely strip and clean my zeus every week, I'd have gotten so mad at the thing by now, I'd be using an Ion :o (not really!).

This is the rear of the pierce pin block and the face of the valve up close. Bear in mind that on friday it was immaculate with new orings and this is it after a bag of paint and exactly 28 12grams as I clean it today! That is not pitting on the brass pierce pin block either, it's more crud which comes from the 12ies in one day of play! A pump player doesn't go through co2s like that. The pistols, especially the spyder based aluminum types, but even the brass ones as well, will grind themselves apart inside if you don't gut them and clean them after every day of play.
That's why I love the fact that the Miltecs use Bottle O-rings for everything-because I replace all 5 every week! It keeps me on the field and happy and my old Armotech Zeus G2 has lasted well over 50,000 shots and is going strong.

I go through a bag of paint a session while Hell Survivors is open. I'll go to a local store of theirs(Exotic Sportz stores are franchised from the same owners) today and buy a bag of paint and 30 co2s. I've got 60 or so tubes, so I'll tube it all up while I watch TV tonight or tomorrow. Then when I get to the field I can just keep sticking tubes in my harness all day and I don't have to eat up any time. HS plays 6 15minute games in a 3 hour session, so it ends up all going by pretty quick! It doesn't work out perfect all the time but it keeps me going. There is a 2 hour lunch so I can tube up for the afternoon session, if I'm staying. I work midnights and drive the hour out to HS and play in the morning so by afternoon I'm usually starting to wilt.

A note on 12gram usage. It will seem, if you do the math, that I'm not getting too many shots a 12ie, but the truth is I start most games with a fresh one even if I have to dump half of an old one. Also I always chrono my gun before a session and then pierce another 12 gram and chrono it again(old habits die hard). I averaged over 20 shots a 12gram even in the snow flurries at the bunny hunt and normally top 30 in midsummer.


Killbot, yes I did mill that out myself.
I just used a bit that looked like a round file in my cordless drill on slow speed and slowly opened up the hole that was already in the side. THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS TO MODIFY THE PLUG! The face of the piercing plug is flat, so if you open up a dropout the co2 can lever to the side, pop out and become a ROCKET! Totally not good! I made the end of the plug into a cup shape so it held the 12gram firmly inside the gun.
Here's a supersized picture for you from my gallery on MCB that shows the plug:
http://www.mcarterbrown.com/gallery/showph...=500&ppuser=146

I can recommend these guys:
http://www.usmilitarygear.com/products.php?cat=150

Or these guys(who sold me my original zeus years ago and now carry the miltecs):
http://www.jassepaintball.com/miltec-g2-pa...stol-p-501.html

Or these guys(Where I got mine):
http://www.xtremez.com/paintball/product_l...dept=54&last=54

Unless you plan on doing some modding to the barrel, I would recommend the G1 types. The small barrels that come on the G2s interfere with the co2 changing plug, but I made a shortened small diameter 'compression tip' for mine that gets it out of the way. In the original Armotechs the G1 and G2 were not internally compatible, but in the Miltecs they are!

Rob

seems like an awful lot of shooting for using a pistol. but like you say, you are obsessed about pistol play. I don't dump as much paint as you. I have lots of fun and I am probably just as obsessed about pistol and 12 gram play as much as u are. keep up the awesome job representing pistol play!

It was like watching John Wayne with a semi, you really know what you're doing with that. I wish I could have as much knowledge about my gear as you appear to. Nice job with it all, half of the custom work I can't understand (don't try and explain it, we're taking baby steps) but from what I can understand you did a nice job.

Well, you have to remember Undividedattention, that where I play there are BIG teams. Today was a great example, it was cold and borderline snowy and not one other passholder or regular there at Hell Survivors, but there were still 70 people in the open class. One party of 30 there with a youth group and a good mix of veterans and newer players.
While playing outlaw ball that's three on me(my younger cousins), or speedball one on ones, I use almost no paint as you would expect. Even 10man SPPL type games I use paint as you would expect, but with so many targets and so little time, I just can't help myself :lol:
To tell you the truth I'm limited more by the paint I carry than the pistol the way I have it set up, I could shoot ALOT more paint than I do but it gives away your position and doesn't accomplish as much as moving to where you can do the job with less so I only carry 160 rounds to a game.
I try to avoid suicidal rushes until the last couple minutes, at which time it's "If you never get hit, you're not playing hard enough!" and was only eliminated once today out of five games played, so I'm out there shooting as long as I can too. In one game on the 'Everglades' field(seperated in the middle by a 3 bridged swamp) today, I was the first to make a small stack of spools at the end of the farthest smallest bridge. Here's a pic of one of the bridges(this one has cover on the bridge itself, unlike the other two, water up to the edges right now too).Thanks to my friends from the Armosquad for the pic!


I held the bridge for the whole game and as normally happens in a case like that, I went from a full gun and sixteen tubes, to charging across the bridge with a minute to go carrying only the 8 rounds left in my gun! I only scored 5 or 6 eliminations in the whole game, but I honestly feel I helped my team hang the flag most by tying up our whole flank. So I would say that even though I shoot alot, I'm never shooting just to be shooting, always trying to eliminate an opponent, but there are A LOT of opponents. :D

Thanks Scout!
It all just occurs naturally, baby steps like you said. As I've gotten more comfortable with pistol play over the years, I've continued to push myself and explore the role a pistol player can play as part of a larger team. I have to say that I definitely think that it's worthwhile to have someone on your team who can use a pistol well. Especially in the new SPPL(Scenario Paintball Players League) being able to gunfight well with a pistol allows you to carry LAW rockets and the other special weapons allowed while still being able to hold your own in a standard gun fight.

Thanks again guys!

Rob

So many people and so few paintballs to hit them with Smith lol

I noticed that you said that you carry your Tiberius 8 with you at the bunny hunt and that you carry it at other times as well. What roll does it play since you fire so often. Do you shoot a lot with it too or do you just use it as a backup?

Actually depending on if there are more players and the weather is nicer, I often wear my P68SC. In cold, early season weather my main pistol is more likely to get soaked and break paint or freeze and leak so I prefer a semi backup. Each 'Sidearm's sidearm' lets me switch guns in play, so neither gun freezes up too bad. Most importantly though, when I'm in close contact with the other team(often :ph43r: ), then the sound of popping a 12gram is a death sentence. Too many people know me and know someone's out there with a pistol.
Being able to silently holster my out of air zeus and draw my TAG8 or my Sheridan has saved my bacon on many occasions. Especially in the village games which are normally total elimination and get really ugly toward the end :lol: .
I normally(hopefully?) then use the secondary to fight my way to a position where I can safely reload both under cover.
In addition each has a different purpose. When I wear the TAG8 I will normally reload and draw both before I break out of a bunker on a move, if time allows. If you come out with your arms each covering a sector then you only have to turn your head to aquire the sights of the gun closest, instead of twisting your whole torso to bring a single gun to bear, which is faster. Also you're more likely to need both guns worth of ammo, when moving in the open but drawing from a holster while on the move slows you down. So I draw both guns before I move out, I'm a pretty good shot with either hand after years of practice. I shot 5 mags worth of paint at the Bunny Hunt through my TAG.

When wearing the P68SC, I leave it in the holster when I move. I use a Cooper-t Undershot 'better' bolt in it.
In a short barrelled PGP these are pretty much a novelty, IMO, but in the 14 1/2" honed barrel of my P68, they backspin about the same as an a-5 flatline. The difference is that I can see how each ball is oriented as it drops down into the breech and I've found over the years that I can tell pretty much what flight path to expect based on that. So when there's a big crowd of over 100, if I'm caught in the second rank of an attack I can sit back and pick people off with the longball. Plus I just love that gun, I thought about putting an Apex adapter on my TAG8, but I like the Pumpness.


Rob

Today I used my Miltec(I loaned out my old Armotech to a friend for the weekend) to try it out. I finally got around to flexhoning it last week and the accuracy on this gun now is brutal! Got some nice eliminations even though going up against some very tough Mercenaries. I used my Nelspot as a sidearm but didn't get anybody with that this week. I shot about 300 rounds in 5 games.



Last week I played on the team WITH the mercenaries, it was one of their longtime player's Birthday so we played together and the refs set the teams as 23 of us against 52 of them! :lol: We won all 4 games I played and they tied the 5th and won the 6th without me. I shot a 500 bag of paint in 4 games!! :bang: :bang:

Good times!!!

Rob

smith doesn't shoot that much, I carry 40 tubes minimum on me when I'm playing a big woodsball game. Smith, thanks for posting up the info about the zues's having to be cleaned every week. Now I know what I thought their reliability was poo. I might have to buy a "broken" one of a kid one of these days.

That's the good thing about them taking all bottle orings, thank heaven for that, at least they're cheap!

Rob