See this thread for more information:

http://invisionfree.com/forums/Spectral_Wa...p?showtopic=682

More or less CT:RP will no doubt soon face a C&D order like CT:R did. While there was a difference between CT:R and CT:RP, the gist of illegalness was the same. So in order to not be subject to copyright infingement, CT:RP can make this a "educational" project where team members are teachers and students are people like me who participate. That can be tweaked but in general if CT:RP becomes an educational project it is "not an infringement of copyright".

well how exactly would this become a classroom?
I mean, what exactly would be taught?

taught basics of Unreal Engine <_< :huh: :D

:huh: but doesn't the unreal game(at least the editors choice version) come with a very indepth video instruction....(which I have yet to watch cause I'm lazy)..

Yes, UT2004 ECE comes with an extensive video tutorial DVD with hours of 3D Modeling, Mapping, and other useful stuff. Also we might allow for users to make their own CT scenarios, so I will probably take charge of writing the extra documentation for that.

It's a good idea but...eh.

I seriously doubt there is any legal ground for this idea to stand on.

Good idea, but I don't think it could possibly work.

Lucid: Ok I understand that you dont want to get your hopes high but lets face the legal facts. Educational use is not considered to be infingement of copyright. I trying to open up an option here but you know the negative hopeless comments, well you know what i mean...

Everyone else:

I realize that UT2004 comes with documention. But how many of you have learned to truely make something with their documention? For example, take a Frontpage website design class: There is plenty of documention of in the program and on the web on how to use it but it is still taught in a classroom. What I am trying to say here is that it would be not to difficult to make CT:RP a classroom project. Just look at the advantages of it:

> More people will be working on everything and thus the project will finish better and faster than before.

> Commoners (like me :P) will learn major skills in the field of game design, development, and the whole process in general.

Here is the blunt and simple truth:

> Chrono Trigger is a hella big game and it will take major time to even make a demo at least.

> Unless CT:RP does something with their legal situation they are not gonna be able to finish the game due to copyright infringement.

Here's another simple truth: Square has to already know about this. They haven't sent a C&D yet, so there's no reason to expect one. There were plenty of reasons to shut down CT:R, but CTRP is fundamentally different. Read some of my other posts on the subject to see what I mean.

As far as copyright infringement goes? Fan artists rarely get C&D orders (I've never heard of a Chrono Trigger fan artist get one), yet, if Square says so, it would be considered copyright infringement.

Furthermore, everything you are posting is merely guesswork. Sure, it's guesswork with some legal knowledge, but until you talk to a lawyer, you have no idea whether or not any of your excuses could work... and no reason to expect them to. Hate to break it to you and I hate to be a buzzkill.

I think it's a good idea Waterns but is there any way that you could talk to a lawyer and tell him the CT:RP situation "hypothetically" and get his response to it. If we hear that a lawyer says that your idea would clear CT:RP out of the legal waters, then I'm sure people will be more open to implement it.

I hate to do this but I have to treat this post as a direct challenenge to my reputation and what CT:RP stand for. So here goes:

> That is a piece of guess work on your side. We are not 100% sure that is true but I will let it pass since it seems to be the general agreement here that SE knows about CT:RP.

> Why not? If I recall correctly, CT:R was much farther into the project than CT:RP currently is and yet they recieved the C&D. This leads me to the next point:

> Not true (technically). In the C&D order for CT:R it clearly stated that they were using CT images and other copyrighted material, making derivative works, and nothing else, more or less. There was some rumor of them selling it or even porting to a console but that is irrelavent since it is not mentioned in the C&D. Since CT:RP is basiclly doing what CT:R did (make a 3D version of CT) then they will face the same fate.

> I am assuming that you mean people who draw fan art and mail it off to gaming magazines. Well that it is a far cry from making a complete redone copy of CT. Perhaps SE just doesnt care to express its rights on fan art or perhaps they cant do to a fair use act.

> Now here is our dilema: CT:RP doesnt have the resources to battle SE in the court. So basicly we are the "dumbies" in the equation since we cant or wont take this to court.

> :o :angry: How could you say that?!! You have no knowledge of who I am, what I do, or (just to prove you dont know nothing in regard to me) how old I am! Your speculations are nothing but speculations.

> Ditto what I wrote to the last quote.

> Break what? Do you honestly believe that I have not thought about any of these questions? I dont know about you Lucid but when Waterns goes out to do something, he thinks long and hard before even considering it! And he doesnt stop just because the path got covered in pebbles (...Wisdom of the Ages...presenting... . :lol: ).

There my long speel is over. Any more questions? <_<

Are you a lawyer?

Are you under 20?

I love CT just as much as you, but unless you can answer yes to one of those questions, I'm not going to take your idea seriously. It would take a lawyer to have any idea of whether it is possible, and I doubt a bunch of CT fans on a message board have access to that. I hope you understand what I'm saying.

Not a bad idea. But it's a long shot.

and don't take this as an attack, take this as constructive cricism. You are blinded by your love for this project.

Your reputation? You have 11 posts. I'm sorry, but your "wisdom" only proves that it's something that age doesn't always carry. Don't abandon logic and common sense.

:huh: Forgetting the legal jargen you guys are arguing about, this would be a good place to come for questions on modeling and such. Plus it might help fill some of the positions you guys still need help in.
Lets not get into another discussion about whether ctrp will get shut down by squarenix, I personally think we've covered every edge of that subject and I am rather sick of it.

Knives101 you got it done in one blow. Making CT:RP a "classroom" would kill to birds with one stone. Namely we would have more legal leverage and we would be able to get CT:RP to places faster and perhaps better. Looking at the current progress, well, to but it mildly, its seems as if nothing is getting done. Wth more people you could have more power than you ever had.

BTW Lucid: IF i were a lawyer I wouldnt be here asking questions. I would be in the courtroom. And no I am not older than 20. Also if you have any more comments simply pm and i will answer them.

:huh: I personally don't think it'd effect this projects legal position at all, I just think it would be a better learning experience.

Well, if there ever was a legel postition, it would make the team real easy to find.

oh
square probably does knwo aotu this
they will nto cancel it immediatley when they find out
y??
cause thats what they did for CTR
waited until tehy were over 50% finsihed
spending hours upon horus of hard work
then sending a c and d to stop
se are tyrants...

i see no point in arguing about this point at all.

using this project for "educational" purposes would make it no less illegal at all, on the grounds that none of us are teachers, we are both unqualified, and unpaid, therefor this is not an academic institution, and we cannot accept "pupils".

therefor, any and all arguments about whether what we are doing is illegal or not, and whether square knows or not about us, and c&d notes etc, is to stop in this thread as of now. since its kinda not a nice thing to think about for the team.

thirdly, if you wish to learn anything about "modding" or game development, create a thread in the art section in the apropriate forum, someone is bout to have the answers you need. even a pm is enough.

thats just my oppinion, feel free to argue for/against it. but like i said NO MORE talk of legalities, and c&d notes. full stop.

Yeah, just forget about ways to make it more legal and whatnot. We as a team have pretty much agreed(to my knowledge) to just keep working on it as we are, and not worry about a CnD. If it comes, it comes, you can't stop fate.

tahts right chuckles
all of you guys who played chrono cross would realize that

I know I stopped FATE :-). It wasn't easy and it took me a couple of tries but I got the old girl down and out eventually. Thank God for the Mastermune!

hey

lets just continue with the development. lets not get negative about all this
CTRP is nice from the ground up and the team i think they started it for fun and i think, to hone their skills for a further project. i dont think of ctrp like a fixed mission that must be done or everybody will die but as some sort of due honnor to the original game. lets just stay here, and yay the team all around give them some kiccs in they're poor arse to get them working n everybody be happy.

and if, IF, they get a C&D i think it would be possible to get the artwork or at least the code kept and make another project with it, just like the DBZ converstion of Quake 3, Bid For Power I think.

but hey, lets just stop talkin negatively about lawsuit and all that bullschit and just be happy.

lets go guyz, your the best around, and HELL ya better keep working :angry:

:P :P :rolleyes:

Bid for Power was fun, too. I wish they would've kept developing it, instead of quitting after the first or second patch.

they didnt, if you look in the right places theres plenty of things for BFP.

but if your into that, as soon as the server is back up, you should be keeping tabs on www.zeq2.com itll beat the pants off any other Q3 based dbz game..

well, congrats your now in my bad book. have an official warning for posting the EXACT thing people were told not to post by 2 members of forum staff.

and just to clarify one thing. DBZ mods are legal, the creators of DBZ have fully supported almost all DBZ modifications.

They probably shut down Resurrection because it was being made as effectively a demo showing off the talents of the creators. They were using it for CV padding. This is just a fan project, they're less likely to shut this down I'd say.

If you guys get shut down, you should have a demo ready to put on the site to show how it would have looked. maybe like the opening sceens on the original game, but in 3d. it'd look cool.

Meh. The MAIN problem with trying to turn this into a classroom, is this:

It would be a classroom for UT2K4... Does anyone see what I'm seeing? We're trying to hide Chrono Trigger behind UT2K4. Square, if they were to see this post, would know that we're trying to do that, and they'd still shut this down.

Like so many have said before, turning this into a classroom would not change the legality of the matter. Chrono Trigger still belongs to Square Enix, and Unreal belongs to Atari. If we were to turn this into a classroom project, we'd have MORE of a legal issue, with Square Enix AND Atari.

Square Enix would get on us, saying we were using one of their projects in a classroom for another company's module creator, and Atari would get on us because they could get in trouble because of it, as well, because Chrono Trigger isn't one of their products.

There's just... no way, I believe, to avoid this conflict.

The use for educational purposes really doesn't work in this situation. As I said in another thread, that doesn't mean you can mess with the game for educational purposes, it means you can use sections of it as sources etc without permission and the like.

Normally games are not used for classroom pourposes. The only reason i could see any game in a class room would be to show the way it was made, and have students try to copy parts(as in remake) of the game as assignments. there is also that thing about schools trying to make students not plagiarize, which they want students to give full credit to whom ever wrote/made/composed/ect the thing in the first place.