I was wondering... Can the Team members from CT:R hand over any info (such as art, models, engines specifications, and general game code) or is that illegal since S/E gave the C&D order? Quite frankly after reviewing the material from CT:R and CT:RP I say CT:R had plenty done, much more that CT:RP. Also since the general gaming soceity is not doing anything to stop this onslaught of talent can we see the C&D order for CT:R? It would be helpful to have something to work with on the legal end.

Yes, it would be completely illegal. All your other questions are answered in the FAQ thread in the news section. Please refer to it from now on.

I have already read the FAQ. After reviewing it I have one point/question: Can we see the C&D order from CT:R (obviously CT:R would have to respond to this)? Also what are the possiblilities that CT:R went underground? Sure its illegal but many people do illegal things (I am not implying that it is right or should be done) and some of us believe in the spirit of the law, not the letter of the law (something like that). Why some of us would never get to play Chrono Trigger were there no illegal roms floating around.

CT: R did actually finish the demo, but have said it is only for use in their personal portfolios.

/Galidan

Thanks for reading the FAQ! Not nearly enough people do.

Yeah CT:R still exists but it might as well not, as it will not be released to the public and no further screenshots will be shown. We have scene the C&D order, I found a copy from a very reliable source about 2 months ago. However, for various reasons involving the security of our mod I'm not sure if it's the best idea to release it on the forums. I will ask Brain if he thinks it is safe.

-Knives

Well If you really tried to look for it you could find the Cease and desist order on the internet. I did...

Honestly, if you even have to question how safe it would be, I wouldn't recommend doing it at all. I don't want to see this project shut down.

And how do you know that CT:R still exists? Inside info? All I ever heard was that they were going to start work on another project.
Edit: nevermind, just saw a post on their forum where a member confirms a private version. Hope it gets leaked.

I wouldn't count on it getting leaked.

/Galidan

After reviewing legal documents concerning copyright infingement and such (along with the C&D order for CT:R), I have come up with several possible solutions:

> Contact SE and ask to make a derivative work of CT. However all rights and will have to be excusively SE's (they do what they want with it more or less).

> Make a different game. (Period)

> Private use only game (eg. Make a copy of a movie and watch the movie at home).

> ?

I have not completely taken the documents apart and will do that later today. I must say though, their seems to be several places that mods like CT:R and CT:RP can fit in with only a few modifications to them. There is hope still. Any one who wants to help take a look at this site:

http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/property/libr...ml#anchor545352

Waterns, you should really read the FAQ:

http://invisionfree.com/forums/Spectral_Wa...p?showtopic=507

The things about SE, C&D-letters, using CT:R-stuff and so on is clearly said there.

The project just goes on, no discussing on changes to be legal, no using CT:R stuff.

In case a C&D letter arrives, so be it. Then the project just stops.

No offense but if you are willing to just blow off it just like that then perhaps you are in the wrong place (or perhaps its me in the wrong place.) I have read, reread, and reread again the FAQ. I am no longer trying to get CT:RP to use CT:R stuff but I am trying to expand the options. As far as I can tell if we can get some sort of free space in terms of infringement then we are good. But if you are so set on quitting when the C&D arrives, well you can stop now since CT:RP is the same thing as CT:R; A illegal clone of CT (pending approval from SE). (Period) And its only time (days to weeks) before it happens.

You know, I hate to say it but Waterns has a point. The copyright lawyers will probably cry with joy when they find out about this project.

Maybe you guys should "officially" announce you've ended CT:RP, complete it in secret, then surprise everyone with a finished version! You'd take Squenix by surprise AND get the mod out before they have time to tell you it's bad to do so.

You don't honestly believe that they don't already know, do you?

Ignorance at its finest.

We all know that SE knows about the CT:RP. I think they are just waiting for the project to hit a vital point (demo release or something like that) and then screw it over like they did to CT:R. If they see this thread then they are certainly planning with such opposition.

BTW: Almost done working out the copyright infingement act but I still will need to correlate the law with the C&D order (which I have now). However its not looking good in terms of using the name Chrono Trigger in regards to this remake. The actual remake might have a chance but it seems that it will have to be renamed.

I got something :D i think :unsure:

In the copyright act of US and participating nations has the following sections:

Chapter 1, Section 107: Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use

"...for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research is not an infingement of copyright."

Do you see what I see? If CT:RP becomes a educational project then we good since it is not considered copyright infrigement and allows us to work free of legal problems. There is more info but that is the main part we are looking to work with.

Well, for that to happen... developers would have to be doing this for school. I'm not sure how many of them are in school (I'm sure a few of them are), but I doubt it's enough to use education as a reason. Furthermore, I doubt their teachers would take it as an educational project, which in the case of a lawsuit could be easily determined.

Finally, I don't think the team is looking for an excuse to ignore a C&D order.

As much as it sucks... if the order comes, the project is over :(

Not so. It doesn't say anything about school use save the sentence that says "classroom use". All that it says educational use. So if we could rework the project to the point where teachers are the team members and students are people like me who participate in the project.

But yes in the end you are right lucid: CT:RP doesnt have the resources to ignore the C&D order. But at least we can do something to help slow it down.

That actually sounds like a pretty nifty idea.

/Galidan

Who is with me here? How about we set up a poll and find out? I think thats the best idea.

well ill help if there is anything i can do

The only way to successfully pull this off is so announce the shutdown of the project, actually stop it for a few weeks, then "decide" to restart. They continue like this without telling anybody, then when they're ready to release it, then re-open the site and make it available for download.

One thing you must realize is that once it's out, it's out, kind of like a Starcraft map. It will never go away, no matter how hard Square tries. If you ever get a CD letter after that, simply take down the download.

Thats kind of a good plan. I mean, you could secretly announce the release of the project to certain people and the day that you release it you could let certain people download it, then those people let others download it(or atleast send it to the other people. Then a day or two later you could announce that the project is being released for a free download starting on a certain day. If se hits, it would be then, but intill then, keep the project quiet.

Keeping it quiet would include shutting down this forum, and deleting all traces of it. Do we really want that? Why don't you people just read the FAQ topic to see the developer's team standpoint on this, and accept it.

I ment keep it quiet as odnt talk about the project at hand. Keep these forums to talk about squares other rpgs, and other stuff, but stop talking about the whole thing about C&Ds and getting shut down.

I totally agree on dropping any kind of C&D related topic, but about not talking about the project in these forums:
I think the main purpose of these forums IS talking about the project; sharing enthousiasm, the fan-base giving feedback to the staff, that kind of stuff. If you want to keep this project quiet, you'll have to erase all the project-related topics in these forums (that's a LOT), and the entire (and beautifully designed) site. And I really wouldn't like that. But hey, I'm still talking C&D related stuff here, and I just said we shouldn't, so I'll stop here :).

> shutting it down and releasing would just be awsome. kinda like "Ta-na-na-na" in square face.

>Im sure they now you exist, and might even read the fourms.

> = Bad Idea = We shouldnt discuss this.

We just go on talking about what ever, and make square believe the project is moving slower than it actually is. then when it actually is ready, BOOM! mass release and square is cought off gaurd. the site was displaying a later release date(much later, like several months to a year)

Thier probably already onto this project.

What I don't find fair is completely jumping someone with a C&D letter, without giving them a warning, first. Everyone basically knows that there is some possibility that this project may be shut down, but when you are given a C&D letter, you must immedietly shut down, which means everyone is surprised by it, and when they come back to this site, and it's gone, then everyone's gonna be like "Whoa, that was insane... it just happened so quickly" much like CT: R. I think it would be easier if a C&D letter gave the project team a little bit more time for them to shut down their project, and tell the fans, before completely high-tailing it out of there.

I dunno, just... know there's a high possibility of the project being shut down, and us having to move on. Maybe, if we're lucky, Square Enix will get the chance, on their own, when they feel that Final Fantasy has hit a dead end, to make Chrono Trigger's Remake on their own. We can only hope they'll change their minds about the situation.

SE is going to wait a while to see how everything goes before doing anything big. But its like a search warrent, or when you get pulled over for driving and get arrested. you dont get time to do anything(hide the coke, tell your friends your going to jail). When it comes, it comes, and there isnt anything you can do about it.

Nope. That there bit of copyright law refers to using the original material in lessons as a source etc... recreating it for educational purposes would never work, because that would still be copyright infringment.