I know that most ghost hunters take an objective and scientific point of view on ghost hunting, which is the most logical way to study paranormal phenomena; but my experiences with these phenomena, and my religious background, have lead me to ponder the religious ramifications of these types of things.

I haven't had any real pleasant encounters with "ghosts". My friend and I, when we were young, seem to have made mistakes that have put us in poor graces with some forces beyond our comprehension. So when we started ghost hunting, we discovered very quickly that we needed some defense against the darker aspects of the paranormal. Thats just some of my background, but on an interesting note, these forces seem to have followed us all the way to mankato.

I believe that the Bible since the bible was written as a guide for humans to find salvation, it lacks in the description of the afterlife. I think it is reasonable to believe that some people are so attached to life, they simply refuse to move on, or become lost during the way. The Catholics could reasonably assume that ghosts are stuck in limbo, or purgatory. They usually beyond our limited modes of perception, but the universe is energy, and due to the unstable nature of energy, it could inevitably lead to a crossover between these worlds.

Alot of people seem to think that the belief in ghosts is heresy, but I think they are afraid that it debunks religion. But a true believer in God should know that his universe is well beyond the scope of our understanding. There is much evidence to support the existence of the forces described by Christianity: stigmata, possession, clairvoyance (much like the prophets) and the miracles that people swear are performed by God.

First of all your spirtual beliefs can color your judgement or perception of things. Secondly, think of what the ghost of spirit may have believed in. In the Mankto area the was a large population of Native American people. If you research the religion of that culture, they believe that spirits can and do exist everywhere, in everything. Also in that area there was alot of negative things happening between the naitves and the settlers. 38 Dakota were hung in the largest mass execution in US history, signed by Pres. Lincoln. Some of the Dakota that were hung were known to have been innocent of any acts of war against the whites. The bodies of those ppl were disinterred while still fresh and used for medical experimentation, others were dismembered and parts sent to other towns in the area. One man's head was put on a post and sent to another town. His head was recently reburied on the 70's. Mankato is active for many reasons. You should research the area/ppl who are supposed to be haunting before you go about hunting. If you want to protect your self from the spirits of Mankato, I'd suggest smudging with sage before a bible.

I know what the history of mankato is, and I know the nature of the problems that I have. Its hard to explain what the Christian faith means and entails to a non-believer. The absense of religion in one's life does not make one an intellectual. But, what I do know is that the Christian rites to expel spirits do work, both for priests and laity. The results speak for themselves. Despite what a ghost or spirit may believe in, they are still subject to the laws of the universe, and in my experiences (I have not always been a christian), my religion is correct. So I think i'll take the holy water over the sage.

"I know what the history of mankato is, and I know the nature of the problems that I have."

Sorry to have tried to help. I have information that goes back to pre-Euorpean settlement. Hide paintings, winter counts, ledger drawings, and oral history recorded by the families of the Dakota that lived there. The area is so rich in history and the earliest part is not in the books.

" Its hard to explain what the Christian faith means and entails to a non-believer. "

I never stated that I was I non- believer. You do not know me or what my faith is. I was confirmed in a church. My oldest was baptized by Msgr. Leictenburg from St. Patrick's Catholic Church.

"The absense of religion in one's life does not make one an intellectual."

1. I never stated that I lacked religion or spirituality.
2. Beating me about the head with a bible will not make you look more intelligent, nor will attacking me.
3. I cannot help that I was created as an intelligent, resourceful female that does her homework.

" But, what I do know is that the Christian rites to expel spirits do work, both for priests and laity. The results speak for themselves."

I just asked you to look at it from another angle.
BTW- How many exercisims have been 100% sucessful? Are you sure in the entire history of Christianity no one was ever hurt or died because the Priests felt that they were doing "right"?

" Despite what a ghost or spirit may believe in, they are still subject to the laws of the universe, and in my experiences (I have not always been a christian), my religion is correct. "

This country was founded on the basis of freedom of religion, yet the Quakers killed anyone who did not follow their ways. I was hoping to expect more from a seemingly educated, open, modern individual.

"So I think i'll take the holy water over the sage."

Then by all means, do so. Wouldn't want you to burn an indiginous form of incense (oh wait- don't they burn insence on Catholic church?) and waste it. I'll ask my relations to pray for you and visit you often.

Anyone can burn sage and try to cleanse but you actually have to know how to do it in order for it to be effective.

In my time as a ghost hunter, I have just simply been respectful to the spirits and have never had any problems. Use the golden rule that many religions are based upon.

You can smudge exorcise etc etc all you want if a spirit doesnt know they are dead why would they feel the need to move on?? Nothing is guarnteed effective ever... ever... I dont understand how some groups can even claim to be able to cleanse haunted places .. there is 100's of ways people claim to get rid of spirits.
You cannot argue over which ways are better then others every haunting is diferent every spirit is diferent..


Adam has a great point respect is the key.

Who said we're getting rid of ghosts? I like them. You never have a dull moment when you coexist with them.
The debate was about how to protect yourself from "malicious" spirits. (or at least it started that way) I agree with Adam that you should remember the golden rule and respect the spirits.
For me, part of the respect is knowing as much background as you can before going on an investigation. If you blindly charge into a situation swearing that you will get rid of the ghost without knowing what you may be up against, I feel you are setting yourself up for failure. At best you may get some kick a** data, but the worst that could happen is you have one peeved ghost and someone gets hurt.
Cogline was stating that the Christian religion (in his belief) is the only way to protect yourself. I disagreed and still do. End of story. I'm not into flaming or being flamed. I defended my position, that's all. I know that there are certain things in this world that don't respond the Christian beliefs or values, and was trying to offer another point of view based on my experiences. Enough said.

It's a totally subjective argument that honestly will never be answered. It simply cannot because people will always argue that their way is the right way.

If it works, don't try to fix it. That's my opinion. ;)

I never questioned your credibility on the history of mankato. But don't question my knowledge of Christian history. Anyone who knows the nature of the rite of exorcism knows that there are many factors that affect the outcome, so of course, there is never 100% chance of success. I didn't make any personal attacks either, I made blanket statements, and based on your clarifications, it looks like you did too. But we seem to have had some misunderstandings. I'm sorry if it seems like I made any personal attacks, because it certainly was not my intent.

"This country was founded on the basis of freedom of religion, yet the Quakers killed anyone who did not follow their ways. I was hoping to expect more from a seemingly educated, open, modern individual."

I don't think you understand what I said on this point specifically. I wasn't debating the laws and I wasn't proposing a witch hunt. Theres a difference between religious tolerance and concessions. My faith is the correct faith, i'm not here to be politically correct, its not who I am. If that offends you, then don't worry about it, i'm not here to make converts. I'll listen to what you have to say and evaluate it, I appreciate the input. And if you really want to get into history, you might want to check the first part of your quote.

I think that we simply have different fields of research and different experiences, as well as different goals. I know what works for me and my team, and i'm just sharing it.

Religions start wars because like in Dogma, "No one has ideas anymore. All they have are beliefs."

I disagree, its like the NRA adage, "guns don't kill people, people kill people." Its the same as with religion. People are going to kill eachother either way, most religions try to promote peace. This is especially true for the Christian faith. And there are many new and progressive ideas about it. Because for centuries people have strayed from the original teachings of Jesus and his apostles, we're entering a new age where we have the possibility to flourish as a people and promote peace.

So I doublechecked my resources and this is what I rec'd from my Professor, who used to work for the BIA-
"it is a matter of what time period you are looking at. in '62 and for at least 10 years previous, then for generational memory, for sure there where Dakota abouts. by 1740's the Lakota general had already been striking out west of the Missouri river on our return from the great tour. in 1804 lewis and clark stumbled across the protectors of the eastern boundary, some of the Nakota. who where in flux, some still east of the river, some, not many west of the river. but others lived in the area as well. that region went through some very bloody times in the fur war. actually the Cheyenne, Arapaho, are just a couple that were pushed out of the region due to the fur wars. the Lakota just left, finding their way back. ho'chunk, fox, sauk and others lived around the area as well. for that area, in "white man" "historical time" Dakota and Ho'chunk and Anishanabe are the predominating peoples."
Also from A Dakota elder from the Lower Sioux Rez-
"This is our homeland. We will always be here. Our people have fought and died here. Our people are buried here. We will never leave. Here we remain forever. They cannot take this away from us. Our spirits will stay if our bodies cannot."

"This country was founded on the basis of freedom of religion"

Thats the part that I meant.

*ROFLMAO*
Dude, that was in the last part of my response to you. Man, I thought- nevermind. That's funny. Good way to freak out a History Major, LOL.

........ I was going to say....... I minored in American History in college.... sounded pretty much good to me.......

You think you know alot of stuff, and that you're privy to all sorts of information that nobody else has. And you might know alot about the history of native americans that I don't; but I don't include native americans in the formation of the united states of america. They are a conquered people. I was talking about the real founders, the victors of that war. I was talking about the colonists rebeled against the british and formed the United States of America. And maybe theres some stuff that I know that you don't; so go ahead and be smug. What else can you do with a history major?

Since no one in this thread has read the rules and got out of control with this, I am just going to close it.

Please follow the rules established here.