Prime Minister Carbanousa
Minister of Foreign Affairs Omnivorous

As Minister of Foreign Affairs for the South Pacific, I wish to draw your attention to comments made by a citizen of Canada disparaging the South Pacific (In re: Liarg)

That Liarg has made his differences with the region of the South Pacific known is understood by all. Certainly when he moved here in February 2005, he certainly announced why he arrived in Canada. However, the Spouth Pacifc finds his libelous remarks astounding in the light of the Ministerial debate cited above.

I wish to draw you attention to these posts:

We in the South Pacific are rather confused by his comments. Can Liarg produce an example of paranoia and oppressive behavior within the South Pacific to support his claim? Can he find an example of Canada becoming more like the South Pacific, as he claims as well? I think not.

We in the South Pacific are, as well, insulted by his assertions. We are the most free and open of the feeders. Do we have a code of conduct, as found in our Three Warnings Law? Of course. Proper decorum within any site, especially if some members may be considered minors is necessary; moreover, Invision standards scream for one. But for this one to attack the South Pacific so vehemently . .. .No, Carb and Omni that is insulting to a sovereign region and we do not plan to stand idly by listening to such libel.

As for his outing of Daasfnord’s other identity, we ask this: had Daasfnord deceived people as to her other identity on these boards? Did she attempt to sway the region of Canada to another view point? Did she, through her actions, lead many to feel real grief and anger by stressing certain items which were fabrications to suit her own purpose? I see no reason, save for pettiness, for Liarg to have revealed her other identity. Perhaps others should take heed at this. How many of us have alternate identities on other forums, established for entirely legitimate reasons? Will this one reveal all of these, so as all of Canada may be completely candid?

Prime Minister Carbanousa, Foreign Minister Omnivorous, we in the South Pacific wish to know your opinion on this libel by Liarg.

My thanks to you

Caer Rialis
Minister of Foreign Affairs
The South Pacific

I would like to make a statement reference the above post and request. I am not speaking for Carb or any members of canada or the cabinet.

First of all, my opinions are mine alone. They do not represent Canada, or any of the members here. I was not acting as an agent of Canada and hope that my statements do not reflect on any of the members here.

Firstly, the "outing" of Daas. That was absolutely not an intentional thing. I assumed (wrongly perhaps) that everyone knew who she was. I spoke in anger and responded too quickly and was not thinking. I am truly sorry for doing that, but it was not intentional. I am sorry.

As for my opinions about the SP, I should have kept them to myself. I was offended, hurt, and (I believe) lied to by certain members of the SP in the past. However, that is my problem, not Canada's and I never should have brought that into this forum. Again, I am sorry. It will not happen again.

To the citizens of the South Pacific, CR and Daas, I am sorry and rest assured that you have heard the last complaint come from me about issues of the past.

Carb, Cabinet, Jack and Shay, and all the citizens of this region....I want to say I am sorry for bringing this stain on all of you due to my anger, and perhaps my insecurity. I regret causing the problems and dumping my baggage here in this region.

I'm sorry, but I don't accept your apology. I don't believe that you 'outed' me unintentionally. I know that my other identity was indeed only known by those in the inner government circles, in fact, it was only revealed in inner government communications. So your pathetic plea of 'Oh, I thought everyone knew' doesn't wash.

You have always had some kind of imaginary belief that I have something against you and am out to get you. In your dreams, sunshine. You're merely a speedbump on the highway of life. I don't lose sleep over you, I don't stress over you, and I certainly have better things to do with my time than to plot ways to make your life miserable and to seek petty revenges. So take the reality check sunshine - outside this game - you really don't exist to me.

As to your perpetual bashing of TSP, it happens over and over and over again. You get pulled up on it, you make a tearful little apology, and you think it's all perfume and roses again. This time, it's different.

We don't hold Canada responsible for you. These are people who have supported us, been our friends, and been out allies in many, many battles. Canadians are a damn fine bunch of people, and without them, I know TSP would not be what it is today. Your actions are a smear on their good name.

We hold you responsible for your actions, and you alone. We are merely asking what the Prime Minister and his government officials are going to do about your actions, as you seem to be no longer capable of controlling them. If they chose to do nothing, then so be it. However, you should really consider all your future actions wisely. Because you will no longer be welcome in TSP. You have effectively burnt all your bridges there, and if you're not careful, you are heading down the EXACT same track here. But that's a matter of choice, Liarg, and having seen your past choices, I don't see many positive prospects.

I haven't read Liarg's post here, so I will only say this. the embasy of the South Pacific is the sovereign territory of the South Pacific. As Liarg is not a member of the Canadian government at this time, his post is not welcome here.

I'm sure someone from cabinet will have a statement shortly but I'd like to say a few things here as a member of Canada

While I am not entirely up to speed on what the real issues are between Liarg and The South Pacific, I am a total believer in Canada's foreign policy.

I take the fact that we have had formal diplomatic relations with TSP for some time as a positive sign that the region enjoys civil and political freedoms, including the right to free speech that Liarg questioned elsewhere on our forum.

While it may be customary to ask a region's officials to reaffirm it's diplomatic commitment to a region, it would be incorrect, I think, to expect a region's officials to compress the free speech of one of it's members.

The right that each of our members possess to express themselves has never been granted according to the truth contained in their respective comments.

I am totally sympathetic to The South Pacific and Canada's historic and deeply rooted relationship with it, having carefully read our regional history while editing our wiki pages, but I do not believe that Liarg has committed any punishable offense against the region of Canada or The South Pacific. Certainly in Canada, criticism is not an offense, otherwise I myself would no longer be here.

Furthermore I am confident that the grievances that may exist, will be best dealt with in an open fashion, subtracting the counterproductive reactions that would result from a coercive backlash against any of the parties.

Canada6, thank you for your wise words. Rest assured, there will be no coercive backlash against anyone in this case. We in the South Pacific, despite what some might say, are neither oppressive nor are we coercive.

All we wish to know is the opinion of Canada's Prime and Foreign ministers as to the allegations of Liarg.

Hey Caer Rialis - long time no see. But pleasantries can be dealt with after business :).

To quote Liarg:

In this instance, however, replace Carb with Liarg. That is The South Pacific's prerogative and I am sure that it will be dealt with accordingly by the appropriate people. I can empathise to your position but feel making further comment could inflame the situation. We are not responsible for the acts of individuals and we cannot tell them what to do or say but what we can do is react to the issues that have been raised for a reason.

In this case I can see both sides of the argument.

As before, that is your prerogative. If you wish to discuss how to proceed in more privacy, please add me to your MSN list or failing MSN I can dig out my ICQ (my MSN details are available in the members list).

It would appear that your course of action is already decided. If needs be I can, and will, confer with your Delegate Fudgetopia concerning this issue.

Alternatively, I can create conference thread in the Inter regional Affairs forum to deal with this issue in a more dedicated and official capacity. Let me know how I can be of help and I will do my utmost to deliver.

No. Those who needed to know knew. Regular attenders of The South Pacific probably knew as well.

I am unclear as to which scenario or incident you are referring.
But to paraphrase, Daas 'mainly stuck to the non-government threads'.
So no.

I saw no stressing of fabricated items. I saw concern for the regions' reputation.
This is be a bold statement, but that's an incredible leap in logic saying Daas may have a hidden agenda.

I know not. Perhaps to incite a reaction such as this?

A funny thing... each delegate since and including bweezy has been Ambassador to The South Pacific. I've not been over as much recently but I think that that is going to change :).

I can concur with this statement.

I stand by my offer made in response to Caer Rialis in that we can discuss this over an Instant Message client or set up an inter regional conference headed by the respective delegates and Ministers of Foreign Affairs.

Before I forget, I found something lying under the mass of paperwork in the Embassy. The handwriting is as bad as mine, but I think it says "Daas".
.

Carb,

an excellent response, to both myself and Daas. I'll be adding you to my msn on my arrival home so we can discuss this via more secure channels

<diplomat> But they are a member of this board. The way that the above is phrased would lead me to believe that they are not a member nation of The South Pacific.

If this does go to trial, and it seems as though it will, the Laws of The South Pacific will have no standing. Therefore, any trial and any subsequent action will need to be carried out using the Canadian Legislature.

The above statement leads me to believe that Liarg is not a member nation of The South Pacific. Currently resident in Bolivian:

creates a dichotomy, of sorts.

The membership criteria for Canada requires a nation (main nation or puppet nation) to be resident in the region. Liarg's status is 'Visitor', meaning that any appeal that may be wanted to be made cannot as the permissions for Visitor only allow posting rights in the Out of Character Forums and Welcome to Canada category although there are limted viewing rights.

To accept the charges, be charged and submit a plea would require the nation 'The Bottomless Pit of Liarg' to return to Canada. It can occur without, but in such a case testimony's would be required and that currently is unavailable unless it proceeds with a 'silent accused' rather than a 'silent witness'.

This is, of course, in the hands and at the discretion of The South Pacifics' Cabinet. If they deem or see this course of action appropriate, the Canadian Cabinet will discuss the issue and promptly respond with how to proceed should Cabinet decide so. I cannot second guess the result of such a discussion, should it take place, which is why The South Pacific should decide how it wishes to proceed </diplomat>.

If The South Pacific wishes to incite Liarg for libel, the Canadian Cabinet will take the issue under advisement and do what we can with The South Pacific to restore both relations and any damage to the regions integrity or reputation

Noted as to the dilemma facing Liarg's citizenship status, always a trciky subject when involving folks with dual citizenship. I phrased my earlier, cited post in that fashion as Liarg chose to make his comments as a citizen of Canada, within threads pertaining to various ministries of the Canadian government. Had he chosen to make these comments as a citizen of the South Pacific, he would be more than welcome to, within the Assembly of the South Pacific, or within one or more of the various ministerial boards of our own message board. Therefore, I saw him here as a citizen of Canada, subject to the laws and regulations of the region of Canada, and not as a citizen of the South Pacific, subject to the laws and regulations of the region of the South Pacific.

If Liarg truly wishes a response, he may post his question/comments within the board of the Ministry of Foreign Relations within the South Pacific

...does this mean there's a possibility I'll be delegate in the future...? :P

---

I very much concur with Carb and with C6 and don't feel there is much I can add in surplus to their messages. But I'll blabber a bit and you can't say I haven't replied :P




Liarg has his own opinion on every aspect of his life, which includes and isn't limited to TSP; you may not agree with his opinion, my fellows in Canada may not agree with it, I may not agree with it, but it is his, and in my opinion (opinions... pah!) he is allowed to express it freely as long as he does not infringe on our own Constitution/Laws or IF Laws. Criticism is oft a very important rung in a successful ladder, even if it is unfounded. Claims of "Untruthfulness [regarding]" or "False Criticism" of a foreign region are neither punishable offences here.

As Carb just raised (You post too quickly dude :P) Liarg no longer has a nation in Canada and falls outside the base of our balanced object with its centre of gravity being our jurisdiction.

I slept and went to work in between though ;)... I think. Today's been strangely hazy...

Actually, the fact that Liarg has moved his nation out of the region could be deemed as an act of cowardice. After all, by moving his nation, he absolves himself of responsibility for his actions under your laws. Ergo, my point made about his not taking responsibility becomes indisputable - in fact, a proven point.

I am sorry that all this has made a small tarnish on our strong history, Carb, The Government, and the people of Canada. I have always been grateful that you are an ally - because Canada is a remarkable example of the bond of friendship.

I wish I could say the same for Liarg. Unfortunately, his history in TSP is much the same as it is here - although I am not sure that he has proven to be as manipulative and as unstable as he did in TSP.

I regret it all came to this, and TSP is making decisions as we speak as to a suitable punishment.

Omni, excellent response.

And, as Daas has said, I am truly sorry that such a person could cause such friction in our relationship with your region. That he has skipped from your juridiction of coure absolves Canada from acting against him. We will take these matters into our own consideration and arrive at a suitable punishment for his infractions against the South Pacific

As a reply to both representatives from TSP, I for one have yet to see any Canadian law that has been violated by Liarg.

Out of curiosity, what specific offense has he committed? From my point of view, he has merely given his opinion on the TSP. The fact that this opinion brings displeasure to your region's hosts, does not in my mind, warrant any sort of punishment. To do so, would in fact, be a blatant violation of the rights we treasure and practice here in Canada.

I'd go so far as to say that, while Liarg may not exactly be the member with whom I am most familiar with in Canada, he has to my knowledge, always paced himself in Canada, in a courteous and friendly manner, quite far from the destabilizing and manipulative force that the honourable members of TSP have described.

Point taken. As a citizen of Canada, C6, you would have a greater understanding of the nuances of Canadian law than I would.

As more evidence is uncovered and more specific charges laid, we shall, of course, keep Canada up to date.

:D

Liarg has returned his main nation to Canada since that point was made and explained himself here: http://z1.invisionfree.com/forums/NationSt...?showtopic=5913

I'm going to make the huge mistake of jumping in here.

With all due respect, as a long time member of this region, I too thought everyone knew of your dual identity. I was under the impression that it was common knoweldge. As a casual observer of these forums, I would not have thought twice about what Liarg said about the Dass/Fudgie link. I certainly wouldn't have seen it as an "outing" of anything.

Maybe I'm cynical, but I've been around the block enough to tell you that this smells like someone jumping all over a red-herring for domestic political gain.

Bweezy, you were the person I arrange the anonimity with in the start, however, it has been a long time since we discussed it.

Liarg, regardless of the fact that this is a perpetual niggle of yours, and regardless of the fact that you will never change your broken, misguided, and completely judgemental record, you did wrong. The South Pacific is dealing with it as they see fit, especially as by your own admission, at the time you had a resident nation of the region.

I do thank Canada for their swift replies, and I hope that we can again boast the strong relationship we have always had.

As CR said, we are following this up in our region, and will keep your government informed of our decisions. I think for now this ends this particular discussion.

It has been a long time, and granted, my mind was pre-occupied with the impending birth of my daughter during my brief heyday here. However, I do not ever recall any discussion on the matter of daasfnord. I do specifically recall a discussion where it was implied that another one of your nations unrelated to this region remain anonymous, but it certainly wasn't daasfnord.

And given my very short tenure as PM of this region (of which roughly a third of my short term I was a "lame duck" who had announced he was leaving his post), I find it highly unlikely that I would have been the one you would have discussed any anonymity with. In all likelihood, I would not have been graced with the proper power or authority to enforce a request for anonymity, thereby making such a discussion with me entirely fruitless.

For what it's worth, I thought the daasfnord/Fudgetopia connection was common knowledge as well. I was surprised it was an issue.

That said, I'll drift back into the periphery while the appropriate officials do what they do.

I recall that I was told, but told to keep it to myself as not everyone knew. This was quite some time ago, but Daas also hasn't been around for quite some time and we have had new people join since then.