I just received the following from the MOD&B of all people:

Dear Jack Tarr,

I am writing to inform you that Cabinet has viewed one of your posts as "too graphic" for this forum. The post I am reffering to is your request for "edible body oils" in the "I wanna a Pic II" thread. As a result your warn level has gone up to 33 %. If an action of this sort is commited again it could lead to more serious consequeses.

Thanks Cabinet

As those of you that have been here for any length of time should know, I am here to have fun and I try very hard to do so without offending anyone. I can't believe that I received this warning with no attempt to contact me by anyone to indicate offence and it has been a few days as well. At the first word about this I would have been happy to edit my post, even though said oils are not used exclusively for adult purposes.

In any event, while everything done here may have been according to the constitution. I am hurt and pissed off at how it was handled.

If this is the direction Canada is heading, as an impersonal bunch of beauracrats, it is certainly not the Canada I grew to love over the past who knows how long.

I was wrong to send it to you. However Cabinet supported this, If you look at the terms from invisionfree it will describe that this was indeed not apporpriate.

That's freaking ridiculous!

??

The risqueness of "edible body oils" is in the eye of the beholder. People pour it on toes, for Pete's sake!

This place is going to crap, IMHO. :no:

Could you quote where it says that, please?!!

For Ess:

It goes into further details here: CLICK

Also, another reason for this was because a user reported it.

I am assuming you are using

I don't understand how a picture of body oils violates that.

Tell the user that reported it to get THEIR mind out of the gutter then. It was their interpratation that was sexual, not mine.

The more I think about this the more angry about its absurdity I become. If I remember right, in a democracy, you have a trial before you are sentenced and you also have the right to face your accuser. I was not provided either of these rights.

I demand to know which members of the cabinet did in fact find me guilty here.

So THIS and THIS is more appropriate than requesting --->

GTFO!
Now write me up for posting the oils :wall:

Brazilian, anybody?!!

:rofl:


I don't get the logic, or lack there-of going on here.

There is no logic around here when one person can post half naked women without a warning and another gets a warning for requesting edible body oil.

The one with the girl and the car I do view as "graphic" it was just never reported. Also true all the pictures you are posting were possible pics however the pic that was posted had girls in unappopriate ways.

What pic was posted?

It looks like JT requested a pic of edible body oils. What pic are you referring to and who posted it??

In response to Ess:

The Un Appropriate Picture

Also, I can not tell you who originally posted it

So, JT is being punished for requesting the pic, but the person who posted it is in the clear?

Please help me understand WTF is going on here.

:wacko:

No the person who posted it is far from the clear.

The person that posted the picture should receive the warning.

And why can't you tell us? And where is the MoJ? Shouldn't they be giving out the warnings and not the MoDB??
Notice other warnings given are posted in the MoJ section.
http://z1.invisionfree.com/forums/NationSt...?showtopic=3770

http://z1.invisionfree.com/forums/NationSt...?showtopic=3769

This place is going to hell mighty fast.

Why *exactly* is JT getting a warning, please!?!

OK.

I shouldn't sent out the warning it was just becoming a long draging sitution.

I can not tell you the person who posted the original pic because it is cabinet sensative.

I'm not sure where the MoJ is.

JT is getting a warning because Cabinet thought it was appropriate and I am indeed sorry if this is causing you any greif.

Thanks for that, at least.

I want it on record that I disagree with Cabinet's decision to warn JT for a mere picture request.

Sorry I would love to provide you with more but I think I'm already in trouble with cabinet

I'll second that!!

I think applying a warning to JT for requesting edible oils, ranks among the most bizarre decisions that either five-sixths of a cabinet or a full cabinet, has ever made.

I can't imagine what would have happened if he requested a picture of something that rhymed with puck.

Actually it's one of things our region has always been lacking. A judicial branch. Instead of that we have the Dispute Resolution Legislation.
In fact this was one of the many things I wanted to bring up in the HoC this term.

We need a judicial branch and code of judicial procedure or whatchamacallit.

I don't think JT should be in trouble for that either!

I will wait till tomorrow to say anymore as I wish to give the cabinet members the opportunity to respond to my requests.

Diemetricus is responsible for his own actions. There were plenty of PG-worthy picture possibilities for JT's request. To punish someone because someone else fails to show restraint is ridiculous.

I also noticed a couple things in that bit of the Invisionfree ToS quoted by OO:

Any plans on warning the folks on the forum who actually break these rules as opposed to supposedly inciting others to do so? No? Then can the rhetoric and moralizing.

I fully agree with this statement, and would like to apologize for being the cause of this division. I just wish you would've let me have the chance to respond and accept my responsibility in this matter rather than naming me before I had the chance. Especially since your Minister said

I had already PM'd OO to clarify the matter and did not even know JT was involved until now. I definately did not think this would morph into a public scandal.

This is the image I originally posted, after realizing I was crossing the line I replaced it with the current image within minutes. I didn't think it was there long enough for anyone to see it. I understand it was inappropriate, and apologize to the person who saw it, was offended and reported it. I would also like to apologize to all the people who are going to click on OO's link to the offending image and see it now that it will be around longer than I anticipated.

I agree with this statement. I do not understand why JT is being punished for my stupidity.

I have also received a warning, and do not dispute that it was warranted.

In conclusion, please accept my apology in this matter. I am human, I err, I cannot undo what has been done, I can only learn from my mistakes and not recommit the same error. If, in the future, I do post something that someone deems offensive please feel free to PM me and let me know. I would be more than happy to change something that someone does not like, I do not wish to make people uncomfortable.

We're not omnipotent or omniscient; we're human and are knowingfully limited to not seeing every post. If they had been reported then there would have been consequences. One post was reported by a member of the forum, in which they found both parties to be at fault (be it equal or not); digging up other posts which could also have been reported adds nothing to the current situation. You're just adding more blame to other members and to Cabinet which does not help the situation at all.


OO took complete initiative on sorting out the matter, although he did go further than he should have by formally warning the nations involved. Red has not been involved as he logged out 6 hours before the warning messages were sent.

We're an online community which shares democratic views. If we were a democracy, you'd have to apply to vote in Elections and be over a certain age to vote. We're not perfect.

You completely missed my point. I was trying to show there have been many borderline PG13 post on this forum that didn't warrant a warning, yet a simple 'edible body oils' request warrents one?
Hogwash!
I choose them two photo's because they were borderline and easy for me to find.
How about the porno request in the Continuation thread?
I could give you a list of questionable posts, if you like, but that will not solve this problem.

I am still dumbfounded about how you can think edible body oils are not supposed to provoke any kind of sexual content.


Cabinet acted on provided information and decided it did.

Let me bottomline this for everyone.

There is a little button under every single post on this forum. It says "warn" ... and if someone finds something inappropriate about a post, they click on that button and a warning gets sent to the Moderator of that forum, which is then brought to Cabinet's attention.

EDIT: Sorry - it says Report ... and it is at the top of the post, not under it.

Cabinet deals with each warning in a serious manner. We like to make sure that our members feel safe to come to this forum and not be inundated with material that they find offensive.

Unfortunately, offensiveness is a personal opinion and this is where the problem lies.

Sure, there have been MANY questionable things posted in the past ... however only a few of them have had warnings requested on them by users. And these are the instances that get a bar of warning tacked onto them.

If no one complains, Cabinet just assumes that everyone is okay with it. Once someone is not okay with it, we issue punishment accordingly.

The fact of the matter is, someone complained.

Questionable matter was deemed offensive. Cabinet DID ITS JOB.

BTW - I am quite disappointed in the actions of both Shay and Ess, two long time members who have always been overtly nice and you both rode Old_Ogastein like he was trying to steal your first born.

The kid is new - he doesn't know what he is doing fully ... give new people chances to learn. I'd hate to have been OO at that time, the only Cabinet member around to defend a whole Cabinet's decision.

Things are being taken WAY too personally on this forum for some strange reason. Cabinet does it's job the way it is requested to and we get flack for it because the person getting in trouble is a long time and well liked member. For shame - we're all members and we all take punishment when we do things that deserve them.

And the request, IMHO as a Cabinet member, deserved a warning just as much as the reply did. The reply wouldn't have been posted if the request wasn't there.

I'm dumbfounded on why cabinet would think it is. If double entendres are going to be illegal we'd all have been banned by now.

JT would have never been issued a warning if Diemetricus had never posted the pornographic picture. Therefore JT has been issued a warning for someone else's actions.

JT had no responsibility in the posting of the pornographic picture. I disagree with this decision.

Apologies for not having been on since the warning was posted. As stated I should have been the one to post the warning, but we had not yet finalized our decision by the time I had last visited yesterday.

As to the objectionable content, I side with 420 and Omni in that we issue warnings only if someone complains--if no one says anything, we assume that the post was not offensive (and I usually don't read the pic threads so I was unaware of them until they were brought up).

Ditto!

And as far as attacking OO, not true, we were attacking a cabinet decision, sorry that OO was the only cabinet member online to take the heat.

If you read the post you will find all that have posted in this thread are quite dissapointed in the actions of Cabinet.

A common problem to online forums is that when users are disagreeing amongst themselves, when reading posts, quite often you get the impression that the author is far more upset or virulent than he or she actually is.

First I'd like to say that obviously as the cabinet is also fully aware, the fact that someone has complained about something, isn't an ethical basis for handing out warnings or not. There has to be something else. A criteria. Cabinet knows this. In this case cabinet feels that JT's post led to something obscene. Unfortunately this just doesn't cut it in my opinion. Even if JT had literally asked for a picture of a couple having oral sex, Diemetricus was under no obligation to reply with something obscene.

For this to stick with the region's popular opinion, I think the Cabinet would have to explain how and why JT's post is objectively, obscene. With this I'd repeat what I said earlier. If double entendres are illegal we'd all have been banned by now.

Just out of curiosity. The complaint that was made was against whom? Diemetricus, JT or both?

My point is that we don't hand out warnings for something we don't know about. If we see or hear of a possible offense, we take a look at it and determine if it deserves a warning. In this case, the photo obviously did, and Cabinet ruled that it was inciteful to request something of that nature.

Both.

JT made no specific request for pornography. Even if he did it is at least highly doubtful that it should deserve a warning.

I can't believe what I am reading. Is this still Canada, or are we changing our name to Neo-South Pacific?

Crap like this is why a lot of us left another large region and settled here. And I am going to go ahead and speak my mind........this whole issue is bull$7!>. Of all the things that have been posted on this forum over time with nothing being said, then a warning is going to be issued for this...you have gotta be kidding me. If someone is offended by it, they don't have to look at it, and there was nothing really even risque here compared to a lot of other stuff I have seen posted here.
\
What is this region turning into? Obviously Canada is nothing like it was a year or two ago, but I cannot believe that we have come to this sort of censorship, and certainly if it was determined that there was a problem with the post, it could have been edited or deleted and a polite telegram or PM sent to the offending parties for a first time offense after such a long period of citizenship and loyalty to this region.

Shame on all of you who had anything to do with this, as well as those of you who approve of it after the fact. SHAME on ALL of you!

#1. My anger and believe me, I AM angry even more than I am hurt, is not directed at any individual. It is directed at the cabinet which is a group of people. I can't help but wonder what if any investigation was undertaken once whoever it was pushed the report button on my post.

#1a. Was the person that made the report contacted and questioned? Was there any consideration given to the fact that edible Body Oils are hardly exclusively sexual but are also used in several types of therapy?

#2. Was I contacted by anyone prior to my conviction?

#3. Has common sense left the building temporarily or is it permanent?

I am a grown man and I have no problem accepting responsibilities for my actions. Do I walk a fine line? You bet your life I do and I have said things that on many occasions should have offended but went over so many heads that there wasn't a problem.

The bottom line is this. In THIS instance, the cabinet acted improperly and I expect the warning removed and an apology. This this time it was you and not me.

And as a final aside, if whoever it was that reported this, I truly regret that my post offended you in any way. That said, you really need to broaden your scope of understanding so that you won't see everything in a sexual nature.

I would be very interested to know who reported this, if anyone did at all. I think you have a right to confront your accuser, personally...and I would not be surprised if there was not an actual report made. I could be wrong, and have been before, but the way things are going around here, I certainly would not be surprised if I am right.