This was posted on New Quahog's regional forum by their delegate The Kingdom of Elvandair:

I just recieved this telegram from The Empire of Bowtieman, just wondered if you were interested:


"Elvandair, my region is planning on invading Alpineholm the region that just invaded you. If you can convince some of your UN members to join us then we will have more numbers to attack with. Do it in nation PMs as we don't want them knowing we are coming. "

Read that last line....this guy's a moron

Anyhow, someone wanna alert the region of Alpineholm?

Speaking officially here Checkers, I think that something should be done. Exactly what I am not sure. New Quahog doesn't appear to be that threatening with only five Nations. If more were to join their cause, I agree Alpineholm could be in real danger. I will inform the Delegate along with any other gathered information.

I also agree with the moron part. ^_^

There are over 100,000 nations in this game you can't expect all of them to be playing with a full deck!!!!!!!. ^_^

New Quahog's not the threatening one, it's the region that Bowtieman is the delegate of (I don't quite remember what it was), that is the actual threat, they've got approx. 50 nations. They were asking if New Quahog would join them in the attack, and Elvandair accidentally leaked the plans. (he realised it and bumped it off the board).

Upon further investigation Checkers, I realised this. It was regarding an ejection. I have notified the Alpineholm Delegate of the situation. There does not seem to be a lot of activity currently, although I am keeping my eyes peeled. If necessary, should we offer Alpineholm our support in this matter? If not, I think the case should be closed and that we should assume an observervatory position until matters become clearer.

After helping out the SP in January and then recently getting screwed over by them, I'd be very hesitant to go out and help out another region in need. If I knew then what I know now, I'd have simply kept my mouth shut about the Savage Lands Crisis in the SP, and not sent our small delegation over there.

While the SP has some great people in it, in my view, the SP was not worthy of any effort whatsoever on our part to keep the current regime in place. I don't think this region should make the same mistake twice and get suckered into propping up any more regimes unless were very sure that they can be trusted and exhibit basic hallmarks in good governance.

Similarly, I have heard great things about Alpineholm, and have discussed issues with a few of them six weeks back or so. They seemed nice, but that alone does not make the worthy of our aid.

I'd personally be willing to offer my services as a mediator as I did in Alberta. However, I do not think we as a region should be actively taking sides in this dispute unless we get to know Alpineholm well enough so that we become convinced that they have aims similar to ours, and are a suitable and trustworthy ally with a good government that is worthy of being propped up by our aid.

Unless we are convinced that such conditions exist, we should stay on the sidelines and limit our approach to mediation.

I guess our ideas of getting screwed over differ from one another....



Anyways, I agree with the mediation...but upon further investigation I think we should just sit this one out, it looks as though Alpineholm, The New Republic Near America (bowtieman's region), and Gondor, are all embroiled in some sort of war with each other.

When I go out of my way to conduct an internal audit of all communications in an international incident, take the time to point out each one of my mistakes in my report, post the report to Cabinet, send a copy of the report to a foreign government (the South Pacific), offer my apology to Cabinet, the South Pacific's Government, and my entire region for any mistakes I made during the situation, and then get no similar audit or apology from the major players on the other side, I call that getting screwed over. Others might just call it poor diplomacy on the part of the SP, or just plain bad government.

The fact that I can still go to the SP and view the main architect of the SP's miscommunication various posts taking personal shots at me and this region, not acknowledging any fault whatsoever, not taking any steps to review his conduct, and then watch his government sit idly by twiddling their thumbs and not bother taking the time to review the totality of the communications made on their end to ensure that this type of mass fiasco doesn't happen again is not encouraging in the least.

There has been no official communication from the SP of what went wrong on their end. No report on the matter. No finding of any deficiencies at all, and no apologies for the way their ambassador or any other government official may have mishandled the matter. All we got was an apology from Monkeybutts, who had no involvement in this.

To me, this shows a lack of respect for this region, and quite frankly, piss poor government. If my governing style degenerated to such a negligent and half-assed level, I'd resign immediately, though I'd expect the population of this region to quite rightly lynch me.

Either way, it is still my personal view that the SP is not worthy of any association whatsoever from us. Officially, as PM, I support a continued association, only out of respect of my likely successor's wishes.

I do not wish to encourage our region to get embroiled in further situations where we go help a region, and then when the chips are down, get treated with a complete lack of respect and disinterest by a group of individuals who, in my view, are clearly not fit to govern.

Hence, we should tread carefully in the Alpineholm situation, and all others like it.

Bweezy,

I would tend to agree with your assesment. I know what you are talking about when you say that th SP has not reigned in their nations over their bad talking of our region.

I assumed that there was an agreement between you an LR, obviously not. I agree that we should tread very carefully indeed.

The best route would be to offer mediation.

but that's up to the SP, not us. Whether or not they're fit to govern, they choose their government officials. Unfortunately, they may not have the choice of having such a great delegate.

I consider getting screwed over as, us helping the SP with the Savage lands thing, and them not helping us in a similar situation. The chickenpants issue was, as you mentioned, poor dimplomacy, not getting screwed over. They handled the situation to the best of their abilities, which was not what we would have hoped for, but all they could do.

But I do agree that they should have apologised for the whole thing...


As for Alpineholm, as I said above, I think we shouldn't bother.

The invasion of Alpineholm appears to be over. TAG have siezed control of the region and this is the World fact-book entry for interest:

"This region is under the rule of TAG for the time being. Elections for: Vice Delegate, Minister of Defence, Colonel of Venom, Keeper of Alliances, Recruiter(3), and finally, the Alpineholm Representative. Please telegram me(Commodore Nelson) with nominations. You can nominate yourself. the old administration is not allowed back in. http://alpineholm.proboards28.com/ Please join."

The Alpineholm situation is far from over. CN is now ejecting all non-natives with the justification that they were part of an invasion force.

Well I am a refugee from alpineholm. Actually I was the delegate before TAG took over. I tried to stop them but no one came to help. So i was booted but soonafter found out the password. I am now working with quite a few regions to re-take it. I am also wondering if Canada could lend a hand. TAG has Befouled alpineholm but i wish to return it to its former glorius state.

Canada, for the time being, generally takes on "peace keeping" and mediation rolls in such conflicts (that's what we did in Alberta). I'd suggest that if you need a diplomatic hand to try to negotiate conditions for your return to the region, that would be where Canada is suited to help out.

In my travels, I note that Upper Saxony seems to have some traffic coming back and forth between it and Alpineholm. They are an imperial region, and may be behind the overthrow of the old regime.

I agree. When you have an idea of what sort of assistance you require, we can look into entering discussions about this. With the situation still very much unresolved and up in the air, I would be ill at ease committing to any major or minor confrontation.

I believe Canada should be doing something more then simply standing around and watching as a peaceful region is taken over. We represent over 300 nations and should be acting in accordance with demands for TAG to remove its self from the soverign relam of Alpineholm.

Need I remind you that Alpineholm was one of four occupying regions of Alberta during the Alberta civil war only one month ago. "Peaceful" regions do not usually get involved in civil wars of other regions.

Further, Canada, even with its large size, is not about to become some international bully.

I agree that TAG's password protection scheme is not something that we should support. Essentially, Alpineholm should be open for all nations to visit, and allow such nations to elect the delegate that they support. The old regime should be there as an opposition group, ready to take over if the region's nations believe that he is a better choice as delegate.

However, using our size to threaten a small tinpot dictatorship that is password protected is only going to get Alpineholm's defences on red-alert and prolong the crisis.

The time for Canada to act in an aggressive manner was *before* TAG became delegate as part of the defence of the old regime. No one from Alpineholm officially asked us to do anything. Now that TAG is in power and passwording the region, there isn't much we can do.

Like it or not, TAG holds the cards here. He is playing by the rules - if not, the mods would have terminated his nation by now.

If asked, I'll be happy to contact TAG and try to negotiate an end to the password protection, and conditions for the return of members of the former regime.

However, we have no mandate as a region to try to overrun Alpineholm, and its current regime (which, I might remind everyone, was democratically elected through the UN endorsement mechanism).

The situation is not desirable, but it is not one that, in my view, lends itself to a full scale invasion either. Only a negotiated settlement will work in Alpineholm.

Apparently, Alpineholm was liberated last night:

World Factbook Entry: This region has been liberated by the A.D.N., the RRA, and the GLA (if I forgot anyone, I am deeply sorry). Note the FF wasn't involved in the liberation. The regional ban list has been cleared and all invaders are being asked to leave. Forum: http://alpineholm.proboards28.com

So I guess our involvement is moot at this point.

Nice to see that some people got up off their asses and did something :P. I was never suggesting we "bully" TAG. I was suggesting we simply make it known that we oppose his bullying of a soverign relam.

I'm sorry Karma Cops, but I'm 110% behind Bweezy on this one. I draw your attention to several points in particular that have been made:

Spot on. Canada, as stipulated in the Constitution, should retain it's neutrality at all costs. We cannot afford to make enemies willie-nillie, no matter the cause. It would also be an unjustified intervention (see below).

Alpineholm never approached us for assistance to my knowledge. If they had have done, it might have been a different story altogether. As it stands, I believe we followed the correct course of action given the circumstances. It was not our responsibility nor entitlement to get involved unrequested. This is the danger of international politics.

I must say that this is a very bold statement. Alpineholm were well aware of the situation and, if they felt they required assistance would have asked for it. If we were to become involved in every incident such as this, it would lead to our own borders being undefended. If the situation is analysed objectively, rather than subjectively, I believe wholeheartedly that the correct course of action was pursued with no equivocations. By your own arguements admission: Why not go and offer assistance to Region X because they are being threatened by Region Y. We do not have the resources or the right to interfere with internal disputes unless formally requested.

Yes, I'm glad that Alpineholm has been liberated and returned to a semblance of normaility, but it was an issue that they had to deal with themselves. Such is the nature of international politics.

It seems that a former delegate of Alpineholm is back in the position of Delgate. Occupying nations are leaving the region. So, as the Alpineholm crisis ends, the England crisis begins.

It's getting to be a pattern - out of the frying pan, and into the fire.

Terribly sorry, but I don't create these things...they just happen.

C3P0: It's seems to be our lot in life. We are made to suffer.

R2D2: *bleep bleep* *flash flash* *rotates head through 90 degrees and back*

It would appear so.

LOL. I wasn't blaming you, L. I understand that these things happen. It's part of the game that is Nation States. If we didn't want to be included in the world's affairs, we'd simply not bother having ambassadors, intelligence and a military in the first place :)

Thank you for lending support. We libertaed it and i retook the delegate position last night. All is well in alpineholm!