This was recieved yesterday (July 19) from Australia's government:

My recommendation would be to send a detachment of UN Nations who are not currently Endorsing our sitting Delegate Checkers McDog into Australia and Endorse the sitting Australian Delegate, Chocoholia to boost the Australian defensive position. However, if you wish to be involved in this strategy, please contact the Australian Minister of Defence, New Waves 4.

This was also forwarded, via the Canadian Civil HQ Board:

If you would like to attend, it would be wise to contact a member of the Australian government for times and whether the meeting will be conducted using off-site Instant Messaging services.

I will not go to the North Pacific, as I now think we should stay out of Pacific skirmishes (see the Canadian Sovereignty Party thread in teh House of Commons).

If requested, Bweezystan will move to Australia to bump up Choc's endorsement count on an as needed basis.

I belive that it would be a good idea to liberate the NP. I will move my UN nation there to do anything if needed. Who do I need to ask to attend this meeting?

Register to the Aussie Boards, and ask Cremorne. As for it being a good idea to liberate the NP, the more I think about it, the more I think it is a bad idea. Let the Pacifics go NPO, and allow Canada to become the democracy of choice in Nation States.

Perhaps it is Machiavellian of me to say so, but given the special rules for the Pacifics that beg for a dictator to take over all five pacific regions, we'd be best, in my opinion, to concentrate on recruiting from the Pacifics, rather than wasting out time on liberating them. Liberation will only occur once the mods change their rulings on mass ejections in teh Pacifics. So long as they are allowed, fascism in one form or another will take place in the Pacifics.

Done.

Also, remember that Australia's time is roughly 14 hours ahead of Eastern Time, so Sunday really means Saturday.

I'm loathed to agree here. Not only will Australia's borders be relatively unprotected, but it will also cause attention to be drawn their direction. Needless to say, this will probably be executed to some degree. It is just a shame that there isn't a less confrontational method.

I couldn't agree more. I believe it was this premise that instigated a number of recruiting drives. If Australia feel this something they believe should be done, then it will be.

While I wil try and help prevent any counter attack, I do not know if I believe a attack on the North Pacific will be sucessful. And, if the invasion is sucessful, how can we assure that the NP and the other Pacifics will always remain truly democratic? Quite frankly, I don't believe that is possible.

It isn't: The Delegate must hold their spot with an iron hand. If they do not, they will be displaced by someone else who will. (This of course does not apply to the Rejected Realms)

Nevertheless, it is possible to have democratic elections for lower positions.

Which, by some could be considered tokenisitc, or not far reaching enough as these positions would have little more influence than anyone else.
However, if the sitting Delegate rules with the 'Iron Hand' of Justice, if they feel that their postition is compromised, it stands to reason that to relieve this compromise or threat they will eject those key positions: democratically elected or not. It all returns to ground-zero at this point. I'm sure your aware of this but will state the obvious regardless. What needs to be agreed upon is a strategy that can pass the North Pacific to a more democratic regime without causing the Delegate to feel threatened about losing control. At the end of the day, it it all about control and power. If power is taken away (irrespective of how), those it was taken from will fight vehemently (sometimes to the death) to restore that what once was. In some philosophilcal and sociology discourses, this transference of power is called change.

It is not meant to sound belittling, patronising, or condescending. Those are my interpretations based on the facts thus far. Everyone has been so concerned in trying to develop a successful strategy that the very essence of both the problem, and what needs to done, has been missed in my opinion.

Does anyone remember the problem of Francos in the Pacific? He began swapping endorsements in that region until finally the sitting delegate there was replaced and immediately ejected by Francos. I honestly hope that the same will not happen in the North Pacific, and that one day Francos will face the treatment he deserves.

At the same time, however, I wonder whether this liberation business is truly effective. If we were to move to the North Pacific en masse to help whomever is the democratic group, how would Canada as a region benefit?

Yes, if we removed the NPO from the North Pacific, it would feel rewarding, and would be an altruistic act that the North Pacificans would feel grateful for. However, the way it seems to me is that the Pacifics are excellent regions for recruitment, and not for much else.

They are massive, extremely hard to govern, and can be very unstable. Furthermore, the number of 'bad' players in the Pacifics is enormous, simply put, the Pacifics are not really worth liberating.

Canada's response as a region should be a letter of support to the democratic parties in all Pacifics, and a heightened recruitment drive in the North Pacific emphasizing our democratic tradition.

Funny you should mention that - I've been recruiting in the pacific. I've probably tg'd over 1000 nations by now, and I think it would be fair to suggest somewhere in the neighbourhood of 50-75 have relocated here in the last week.

at the very least!

Good work, bweezy!! :clap: :clap:

:)

Absolutely nothing - except for a smug grin. As much as I respect(ed) the North Pacific, it is doubtful that any aid will be repaid if remembered. That is why my recommendation was not to enter the North pacific but instead lend a hand to an exisiting ally (Australia) should their security become problematic. I still stand by the rationale.

Good Work bweezy!

Sounds like "sitting on de fence" to me.

Listen! Is that the sound of barnyard foul?

Well then...what benefit would it be to Canada as you see it?

Benifit to Canada?
Why does there have to be a benifit?
If a friend asks for help, you ask how much?

OK, howabout we fight for "GLORY!"
We don't have to tell em we're from Canada...
Now, that would be easier if we didn't wear green camoflage in a desert enviroment.
:wacko:

A friend is one thing, an undemocratic region is another.
I am totally out for number one in this instance.

Just to let you know, Great Bight/Mammothstan has been removed from the delegacy of the North Pacific. The regional banlist is once again empty (it had ben up into the 180s at one point). What happens next? Who knows?

While that is great for those who previously called TNP home, I still have grave concerns about the methods employed, and whether they'll be tested in smaller regions.

Of course, now that those methods have proven successful, it makes one wonder how long before someone tries to do the same thing on the Pacific.

The talk of such an effort has begun already. Personally, I think it's ill-advised. I would prefer to see the NP worry about getting its own house in order.

Just two things really:

Canada has long since maintained a position of neutrality. It is not that we do not care or consider the plight of the North Pacific serious, but it is that it does not affect us either inderectly or directly. In conjunction we have, to my knowledge, no formal agreements of an alliance. Granted, we both share Ambassadors but nothing as concrete as a defence alliance. Perhaps this is an oversight, perhaps not. Maybe our Foriegn Relations charter should be reevaluated. If you agree, voice your concerns in the Citizen's voice Forum, that's all I can say really.

Secondly, how exactly was the North Pacific freed. Was it through Operation Puppet Master or divine intervention from the Moderator god?

Operation Puppet Master as worked out between Free4All and Max Berry himself.

Awesome. What exactly did they do?

They won't say. They're not interested in the specifics becoming general knowledge. I suspect this is to prevent the same method being used against the more democratic (I know this is a relative term, Bweezy) feeders and to reuse it against the NPO in the Pacific. I have no confirmed information though.

Interesting...I just read this on the NPO forums:

I'm not surprised. When I heard of what was being proposed, I couldn't for the life of me see how it was legal. I have to agree with Black Adder on this one - I can't see how any objective person would have seen this plan as one that was consistent with established gaming rules.

I suspect that the mods don't much like teh NPO, and so they made an irrational ruling. I agree with them with not liking the NPO's methods in running regions. However, the solution to that is to more stringently enforce existing ejection and griefing rules in the Pacifics to prevent mass ejections, and not to allow a very shady system of nation swapping to be "legal". By making that call, as I've said before, the mods have made every region in Nation States vulnerable to attack, and will likely make the Pacific regions more unstable than ever before.

I was initially concerned about the security of our reigon being threatened by such methods. While I still think that is the case, I think that the security of the Pacific regions will be more greatly compromised. I now expect a different coup to take place every month througout the five pacific birth regions. This will cause mass instability, confusion and dissafection.

We as a region must be ready to capitalize on this, and scoop up active nations from those regions who get fed up with the revolving door coups that will take place as a result of this precedent.

I have an idea of what was implemented but neither want to know, or care, how it was executed as it sounds as if 'extra-planar' rule bending was enforced in this. As for it becoming common knowledge - that will only take time. There will be a leak somewhere and before you realise, everyone will be doing it.

Bweezy, while I do not know the exact details of the attack, I can surely say that what something like this requires is people. Lots of people. While there are a lot of invaders out there, they are not united (as with the ADN/ALL/TITO/etc.), and relatively few of them are sophisticated enough to pull something like this even if they did have the manpower.

My opinion on this still stands- the Pacifics should have ejection disabled.

You're missing my point - this has nothing to do with TITO, ADN, etc. My logic is that the NPO will find out of these methods, and they will seek retribution. They have the manpower and discipline to pull something like this off, and they seemed mighty pissed off right now. Its only a matter of time until they make a move, using those same methods. Then what you'll end up with is a never ending cycle of attacks and counterattacks in the Pacifics. Hence, the instability.

As for smaller invaders - they can use those methods on a smaller scale. The principles are the same, they'll just use them in smaller regions. In fact, my thought is it will be easier to do in smaller regions - less coordination required.

My position is sound.

Oddly enough, I believe it was Bight himself who unbanned a wad of Nations... most I believe were of Australian origin, that may have encouraged the coup to start ahead of time... I believe he had about 167 delegate votes. So you can image the scale of the mission. And yes, the freedom fighters seemed to be highly organized.

This boils down to politics and bureaucracy. It is more of an demonstration of the inherent bias toward preferential treatment and 'rule-bending' in the Pacific Regions. I agree with Kandarin on this and would like, in a controlled experiment, the Ejection feature disabled from the Pacifics. Admittedly, this owuld cause gameplay mechanics to radically alter and would never be approved by the Mods. In theory the idea is sound but, as with most theories, when applied meet all kinds of shortfalls and inconsistencies.

My colleagues and I have been applying it for a year. It works.

No question. You don't really need an experiment - the RR has functioned well since time immemorial without ejection rights.

Our only real problem is the lack of activity, due to the fleeting nature of our members. We've remedied this by becoming a defender organization and thus drawing in invasion/defense style players from around the world. Pacific regions do not suffer these problems.

I would just like to say that I applaud and laud the progress and work that has been carried out in the RR. I think that the Pacific regions could learn a lot from your determinedness.