Hi all,

On a five link rear suspension is there an alternative to the Panard Rod?

I'm sure that in my rallying days I saw some kind of "Z" bar arangement but I can't remember what it's called! :rolleyes:

What ever this "thingmy" is, has anybody fitted one to a S1?

Many thanks,

Mick.

Watts linkage.

Keeps the axle bang centered thro axle movement if set up correctly.

Lot easier to use a long panhard rod from as far to one side as you can get on the chassis (got mine right over under the offside chassis rail) and as far along the axle as you can get (got mine 2" off the brake drum over on the nearside). You'll not notice the difference to a watts linkage on the road.

I certainly don't notice the axle moving on the trials dutton - and I have around 8" of suspension travel!

Bri

That's the thing I was looking for, thanks.

Is a Watts inferior to a Panhard rod?

Mick.

It depends if you need a low roll centre or not - A Watts usually has the roll centre at the centre of the axle due to the mounting that has to be fabricated off of the rear of the diff housing.

The difficulty with going low with a Watts is the lower arm connection on the diff pivot which can be prone to being mashed off if it protrudes below the diff housing.

Panhards for the same lowest point will always have a roll centre some 3" lower than a Watts.

The only practical downside to a Panhard is the sideways movement - 1-3 mm if long enough and a short suspension travel and an initial parallel/horizontal mounting to start with.

Other than that its cheap and can be made very adjustable

The other method of location is a WOBLINK or a MUMFORD LINK

Andrew

Andrew,

If you have time could you post a definition of roll centre?

I've never heard of that in relation to suspension geometry, I've tried Google but can't find anything relevant.

The Mumford Link looks very interesting, in your opinion would the necessary machining be worth the advantage over a typical Panhard setup?

Many thanks,

Mick.

There are a number of schools of thought on roll centres - and a decent google of it will find loads

As a quick laymans description - Alan Staniforth does it well.

get a shoe box and stuff a knitting needle through it the back a bit higher than the front and those are examples of the roll centres.

For a Panhard located car on coilovers the roll centre is at the height of the bar.

The front is a geometric relationship between wishbone angles and needs a good sketch.

I will find a link for you

Andrew

Andrew,

I've just been having a look at one of the cars on your website, in the picture the panhard is attached to a bracket above the axle (i think), UUG's axle bracket is attached below the axle :o which is what gives me so many problems.

I have lost count of the number of times I have ripped off the off side "silencer" :blink:

Is my panhard arangement just a F.U. or would there be a valid reason for having the axle connection so low?

If it is a F.U. is there an optimum angle for the panhard between the chassis and axle?

As UUg is in bits again now is the time to resolve this problem so your opinion would be appreciated.

Many Thanks,

Mick.

Best angle for the Panhard is parallel to axle - the height should be matched to but not the same as the front R/C the front

On the B+ and Seans S1 we have installed the rods Parallel and at a fixing point on the axle level with the lower shock mounting.

Cheers

Andrew

Is it possible to fit the 5 link suspension to a S2? Is it superior than the Cortina ssprings, I assume it is, I was never very happy with my setup 30 years ago.

Alan...

If you check the DOC message board http://www.boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?&user=dutton

One of the members is preparing a document about doing this.
It may be an idea to add your details to the list and get a set.

Hope this helps

Gary

A good 5 link will always perform better than a leaf set up - but a poor 5 link will be worse than a well maintained leaf set up.

Duttons original 4 link is a dreadful affair - 3 trailing links and a half panhard above the rear axle.

A good read and search through this forum over a couple of cups of tea should net you all the info you need.

Andrew