I was looking around the site and started thinking of the P. Skills. I like the idea of them and even the fact that they're level based. It means that you have to work for them. But I also was thinking that the fact you only get a few P. Skills and the spacing between them is a drawback. Which brings me to the thought of being able to earn P. Skills from the list without having to wait fifteen to ten levels. Maybe certain quests could lead to the learning of a skill, but the admin chooses the quest, skill, and whether or not the person earned it. Or a different approach. Purchase the skills for a hefty sum. I know both of these are ill thought out but I just thought it was worth a word.

I wouldn't say ill-thought out. In fact, I hope others like the idea because I've been thinking about something similar myself. For me the issue wasn't the spacing between levels, but the cap at five p.skills. I guess I just think that people should be allowed to keep progressing if they've made it that far. I should probably give you guys an idea of what has been going through my mind, and then maybe we can get some input on the whole thing.

New p.skills...either
1) people get to choose a new list p.skill,
2) people get to create a new custom p.skill, or
3) people get to replace their list p.skill option with a custom p.skill.

Ways I'd thought of to get them:
1) A reward for winning tournaments, etc.
2) A gift given to a member chosen by the admins as a whole every, oh, I dunno, six months or so. Problems with this one include playing favorites by the admins (I think it would just be subconscious, but that's still...um, not good) and problems with the same person getting multiple rewards. I guess we could just limit the number of gift p.skills per person though...anyway...

Buying them...I hadn't really thought of this. My only problem is that I'd want to reward people who have done quality posting over those who had done constant posting (and as a result would have received tons of moola). But quality posters are supposed to get more rewards anyway...not sure how that would even out. SOMEONE (*points at every site member*) should offer their opinion on this issue.

As for an admin making a quest to get a p.skill...I kind of like that one. The only downsides I could see would be that a person could get pretty pissed if they had posted for an entire adventure and then not received a p.skill for it, and deciding on who would get to quest could get complicated. I see it as either a) The admins would decide on one quality poster and then offer them a solo quest, or it would be first come, first serve. As for group posting...I think it might be a bit much to give another p.skill to more than one person at a time. People should comment on this one too!

Ok, to be fair I hadn't brought up my ideas with the other admins at all (Drayco probably has and has had a more clear line of thought on this issue than I do) so we probably wouldn't get anything done on this for a while, assuming we even come to a positive unanimous decision at all in this thread. BUT, it probably won't happen at all if the rest of you guys don't offer your input on the issue. So participate in this thread! You may just have an impact on the future of how Dark Isles functions.

Lastly, special thanks to Drayco for bringing this up. This is what this area of the site is here for, and it's great to see it actually being used. I hereby grant 1,000 gold to Drayco; use it as you see fit. Everyone else...what do you think?

*bows repeatedly, then scoops up his money* Now see people...this is why idea's should be said. You never know when you just might get some cast for it.

But I like the idea of solo quests. But how about this for an idea to add to that. Say you take each realm and make a special quest, say once or twice a month. The person taking the quest receives a skill and then can't do another skill quest for two months. It means that there would be multiple quests, enough that sooner or later everyone would have a chance. Then, when every one has had their go, the quests stop for a while or totally.

But I make an addition to the thought of buying the skill. You buy it. Wait some time, like a week to learn it. And you have to do a small quest, something like spending all your time learning the skill and not fighting hordes of demons and orcs. But along with this, the admins get to pick decide whether you get the skill or not. Meaning if you're not posting quality and just quantity, you might just be wasting your money. But if you post quality you get the skill, and that's it. No other rewards, just the skill. But to be fair, make every skill priced the same. I know this sounds bad, but say you want....Stubborn or Unnatural Strength which are good skills...they would cost the same as something that's almost innate like and equip. I know thinking of prices would be hard, but if you make all the prices the same for a time, you have time to see what ones are being sold and can adjust the price accordingly.

But I have something against switching skills. It just seems a little cheap to me. People would probably want to switch every list skill with a custom and because customs can't be to much alike, after a time people would run out of idea's or just get cheesy with them. I think the list skills should be able to be added. Because some of them are good for character development and some would make good show moves for a tournament.

I also like the idea as rewards or gifts. That seems fair. But instead of having the admins vote for the gifts, have the users and admins vote. Then it's really a gift and there can't be very much complaint that the admins like someone better then someone else.

Okay, I think I've rambled on enough. And please, I'll like to know what other people think of this idea.

There are a few problems with this. I'm just gonna play the devil's advocate, here, since no cons have been addressed.

There is a limit because if there wasn't, then everybody would get all, or most of, the skills, and there would be little customization. The point of the skills is not to become all-powerful, but to make a character that you enjoy and is unique. And currently the level cap is 50, which thus restricts people to getting 5 P skills so far. But if the cap raises to 75, then naturally the number of skills will extend because there will be more levels to gain, and again when the cap raises to 100. But for now 5 is all there is available.

The idea of giving skills out as special prizes isn't a bad one, in fact it's one I've even considered. However, one of the cardinal issues with having "special quests" and what-not for people to do is that we don't have enough people to do them. There will be special events and what-not, don't you doubt it for a second. I've been anxiously awaiting the point where we have enough people to actually DO one. And there would be special rewards for doing these quests, without a doubt.

Also, administrating these special quests in every realm, creating them, then judging them not only for level and gold rewards but also for this skill is a hefty task. Moreso than you might think. We're understaffed as it is, and we don't have the excess manpower at this point to maintain such a thing.

Rewarding skills to people every few months is also a good idea - but where's the basis in the story for it, first of all? Secondly, who's going to remember to do it and keep track of who got what and when and why? It just creates more mod and admin jobs. At this point admins already outnumber standard members, and that's just to run the basic functions of the site.

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Although the idea of buying skills is a novel one. If we have the time later, creating a "skill shop" could be done, I guess. But it would take some serious regulation and thought to get it done just right so that there wouldn't be abuse issues or holes in the system that would result in overpowered members.


That's all I really have to say about it. I like the fact that you brought it up, but a lot of these ideas are more geared towards a full and active site, which this sadly is not. So at this point they're just not feasable (some of them aren't, that is). If you can think up ways to fix those issues without needing a gajillion admins / mods (gajillion, i know, not really a number - just being over-dramatic) then I'm all ears. But those are really things that should be thought about.

I don't want it to appear like I'm not open to new ideas and stuff, but we can't work in every idea that comes up, and sometimes there would be other problems that would arise from making changes or additions of certain kinds. I do like some of those proposals, they're good ideas. But the things I pointed out are issues to be considered at least. ^_^

I applaud the both of you thus far on what's been said and would encourage others to crawl out of the darkness and speak their minds. ^_^

Oo, free money. Congrats Drayco!

Hmm, extra p.skills...I'm for it I'd say. I don't know about buying them. I like the idea of them being more of a pleasant surprise. Like, "hey so and so, you're awsome so have a p.skill." Not that I think they should be just randomly awarded for cool quests - that would be too much. But maybe as a tournament reward or something.

I don't think giving extra p.skills to people would necessarily be a bad thing. Sure there's a cap that can be raised, and then there would be even more p.skills, but I think it's important to remember who would get the p.skills...

I'd like to think that they'd only be given to people who are truly creative and enthusiastic posters; the kind of people who would be able to make another p.skill work in terms of further customization and character development. Maybe it could be that the people would have to justify the p.skill that they chose. Say I got another one as a gift. I'd probably choose Stubborn, because I really think that that's the kind of guy that Valcrist is supposed to be. From where I am now, I think it would not fit at all for Valcrist to have something like Loot Corpse, Pilfer, or Summon Sprite. I'd hope/expect that the admins would see through some crappy choices like that, as through my explanation for having the new p.skill. I'd also hope/expect that someone worthy of receiving a p.skill would choose one based not upon potency, but upon how much it would fit with the character. So there's my rant.

I guess I should say lastly that even though we don't have many members, I think it's important to talk about these things now. Even if they aren't yet feasible, by discussing them now we've already gotten that step out of the way for later. Also, talking about it will take a long time anyway. Who knows, this could take a really long time and by the time we were finished, we could have tons of members. If not, then we're all set up for when it wouldn't be a problem to implement.

I understand that the idea is farfetched at this point. I also understand the idea of regulating a shop or a quest would be difficult. I don't ever really expect to see this in action. But as for tournament rewards, the only fair way to do that is really for the people that earned them. I don't mean just the top three (or four); but the people that really worked hard but got eliminated early. Kinda like the way levels were done when you got a certain number a points. Say you earn a 9.5 or something which is rather high, you get to pick a skill, if you can justify it. Like Valcrist said, it's hard to justify certain abbilities.

...Well I had more idea's but I am blank right now. I might post in this topic later if I can remember the other ways of earning them.

Just to counterbalance my mostly negative rant earlier: I would like to make known that I like your tournament idea drayco. But if I recall plenty of people passed the old numerical limits for levels in the previous tournament, so maybe instead of 1, maybe every 2 or 3 high grades they got would earn them a p.skill. So those who get high grades and those who advance (higher grades tend to advance anyhow :-P). Or if you get a perfect 10.

I'll put it like this:

If you get a 9.5+ and lose, you choose 1 p.skill for your trouble.

If you get anything between 8.9 and 9.9 and win you get credit towards a P.Skill.

If you get a perfect 10 you get a p.skill for your trouble.

If you have a score between 8.9 and 9.9 as credit towards a p.skill and you get a 9.0 - 9.9 on your next tournament duel, thus resulting in two duels with high scores, you win a p.skill.


Something like that... I dunno. -_-

Hey...that's really a sweet deal. And the negative rant was good. I hadn't thought through all the troubles it could bring. But, what do you mean credit towards a skill? That I don't fully understand. The rest of it I caught.

Alright, something to talk about. ^^;; I'm up for the extra P.skills, but as someone stated (forgot who, I think it was Derhlith) if this is done incorrectly, there would be some mighty beefy characters. ^^;; Right now my brain's mush, but I do have an idea for the Skill Shop idea. ^_^ How about putting a limit as to how many skills you can buy? It would also be pretty simple to keep track of that too because of the Personal Skill thread, section, thingy, where the person states what skills that character has. For the level ones, just put "Level (#) Skill" then all that other stuff. Then for the bought ones (which would have a hefty price as Drayco said earlier) just make them say something like "Purchased Skill #(#)" or something like that. ^_^ And then they do that whole test thing to see if their chosen skill makes sense with their character. And if they get it, cool, if they don't, well, there goes all that money. (Again, stated by Drayco) :D

As an addition to the buying skills idea. How about having one option that you can buy called "Customized Skills" which costs twice or thrice as much as the normal Listed P.Skills. Then do that test thing with that too.

...After reading this again, it sounds kinda stupid now. Oh well, it's been typed, hope it's...something. ^^;;

Doesn't sound bad to me.

And to answer your question Drayco, the whole "credit" deal was like this:

You have to win 2 duels with a high score to get a p.skill, not just 1 (otherwise anyone with a high duel score would get a skill, and in a big tournament the winner would come out with like... 9 new p.skills). So when I said "credit", I meant the first duel you win with a high score. You don't actually get a p.skill for it, but if you win another one with a high score you get a p.skill. So winning the first duel is kinda like getting credit towards a p.skill. 'Cause you're on your way to getting one, but you're not quite there yet.

I hope it makes more sense now. If it doesn't, maybe someone else can explain it more clearly. ^_^

Okay. Now it makes sense.

Brief recap for anyone who doesn't want to read every post. (No I don't speak for the admins, but this is how it seems to me.)

Extra skills: Okay idea. Has some bugs and if it's seen it will be later.

Earning them: Tournament wins with high scores. Or one win with a high score but being disqualified. Or all around winner.

Skill shops: Not widely liked because of bugs but showing some support. Most concerns are beefy characters. An amendment to the idea are caps on the amount you can buy. Also hefty price.

Gift skills: Seems to be accepted as a fair idea. Not much has been said on it other then a few mentions.

Skill quests: To many bugs at this point and to much work for admins.

All right. I hope I got everything. Remember, those are just how I'm seeing things. I don't speak for anyone other then myself in that recap. So if you don't want opinion the first part of each paragraph is way of getting skills.

I'd just like to tack something on here. How many p.skills would be awarded? I mean, if people post really really well then we could have a fair number of p.skills being granted. I know I said earlier that we should have opportunities to gain them, but I'm thinking at the most that only one per month should be awarded regardless of the reason. Sure people should be responsible for their skills, but even so a guy with even just five additional p.skills would be quite a potent warrior; and we don't have too many people around now as it is (and probably won't in the near future either). With the low activity, it would end up being just a few people getting tons of goodies. Whew, there's my mighty input. What say you?

My outlook...with activity the way it is, then yeah, the people already here have an advantage. But thats how any site is. Those there sooner will have some advantages then those showing up later. But also what about those that showed up before things like the Merchant class showed up? Or even those that had the rules change for the P. Skills before they got them. No I'm not trying to be negative, I'm just trying to point out that not everyone got the early advantages or the later ones.

But I understand the concern for these really powerful fighters. If you did give them as gifts, I think for the most part the people now that deserve them are the active ones. But maybe set it something like this.

One: A person can't win to months in a row.
Two: They have to be able to justify the skill they pick. If they can't then they just get the fact of knowing they were picked.
Three: There doesn't have to be a winner every month.
Four: Some kind of cap on how many a person can win.

This is a cap for gifts, not earning one. So you could still win one in a tournament, but not as being a good poster or something.

Okay, that's just my idea for how to deal with overly powerful characters.

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P. Skills could also be given as B. Day gifts.

Alrighty then...this is only a short little thing about P. Skills here, but I was wondering if it would be possible to lower the 10 level differance between every P. Skill? I don't mean lower it to have one as short as every 5 levels, but maybe something a little less, like 8 or something like that. Because the way I see it at the moment, 10 is a loong way to go...

...Dang, I had this all in my head a moment ago. >_< Alright I'm just going to post a bit scattered brain at the moment...again...so please bear with me.

Alright, one thing to point out is that the level cap is 50, and in those 50 levels you get only 5 P. Skills: 2 from the list, 3 brand new unique skills. Now, that's a long way to go just for 5 P. Skills...kinda discouraging actually, and keep in mind that people do have lives to live, no matter how much they think they don't. Personally, I think the idea of P. Skills is awesome, but having a 10 level wait kinda takes the fun out of it, your first being from the list, and shouldn't these things be fun? ^_^

(Just some example of a person who is said to have no life and believes it.)
Take me for example! :lol: My life consists of mainly games, anime, and music, with reading and writing here and there. Not much of a life now, but just yesterday, my sister (which I havn't seen in almost a year) calls me and takes me out for breakfast, my dad is still trying to get me to visit him in Taiwan for the remainder of the summer, and every once in awhile I get invited to hang out with some good friends who I don't see on a normal basis (even during the school year).

....Which brings up a question...why is the level cap 50? No one is even near that number, except for Derhlith, but he's an admin who started at level 45 so he doesn't count. XD

Aw crap, I ranted again. >_< Oh well, I hope this is taken as an opinion. No aggresive tones was intended, and if it came out that way, my apologies, but it's so hard to "sound" passive without a voice. XD

First off, I'd just like to say that the level 50 cap is all Derhlith's fault. So...mlehbfgart.

Hmm, lowering the spread between p.skills...absolutely it could be done; we don't even have anyone who's made it that far yet so it wouldn't have any major immediate impact on anyone here...Well, here's why I put it at ten:

There really aren't that many list p.skills if you think about it. Most are extra weenie spells, or equip-stuff. And I wanted to have each one be useful in its own way, so I tried to make each one...uh, useful. So that leaves a relatively small number of useful p.skills for a set number of people. I figured, "hey, after people get up there in the levels, everyone will be taking duplicates (instead of just a few duplicates) and everyone will have the most potent ones." So I figured that by having a level increment of 10, people could have enough p.skills to be unique, but not so many that we'd just see the same ones popping up all over the place. Also, characters rewarded with extra p.skills would have a broader list to choose from, and would stand out a little more from the crowd.

So there you have it. There's something else I want to talk to the other admins about (going to post it tonight guys) that could be pertinent to this issue, but in the meantime, what do you all think? Is that sound reasoning, or should something be done to decrease the time between p.skills?

Why are you all babbling about the level 50 cap? Would you rather it be lowered????

I mean, there's NO point in raising it because nobody's anywhere near it. And I don't want to take it above 100. Just for the record, though, when the level cap goes up, the number of chances to acquire P.Skills also increases. But really, I don't see why people keep complaining about the cap. <_<

...Sorry, Derhlith...I mainly brought that up for 2 reasons. The first being to point out that a person can only gain 5 P. Skills within those 50 Levels is kinda discouraging, considering how long it takes to complete one quest and gain only, on average, 2 levels per quest, quests taking at least a month and a half...for me anyways.

This was only a curious yet humorous intended question. That's all...My apologies for getting on your nerves...

I agree with Crest on the time it takes to do a quest. But instead of raising the or lowering the cap or changing the time between p.skills. How about another way of earning levels? or gold for that matter.

Hmm, an interesting thought. Other ways we've got to increase levels so far include tournaments, but I know that there isn't one right now due to not having enough active members...other ways for levels aside from questing...er...hm.

I think that however levels are awarded, even if new ways to gain them are introduced, posting for them should be involved. Levels are kind of the basic building blocks of our characters, so I don't think they should just be given out like new p.skills or special items, regardless of how spiffy a person is. So going by that (and I'm hoping others agree - if not, I am genuinely interested in hearing other ways) what else could be done?

Duels are an option, of course. I'm afraid though that if levels were awarded for duels, a handful of people would just go at it nonstop and zoom up there in the levels. I guess there isn't anything directly wrong with this, but it seems to be subverting the natural order of things a bit...also, while duelling these same people could be getting levels from questing as well...That's some rapid growth potential there.

I guess the only other way that you could post to get levels would be through...subquests or something. But just the name suggests that they'd have to be set up by admins and I know they're working on a crap-load of stuff already. I don't need new levels that badly.

So then, money for other than posting...well obviously you can sell stuff. 'Course, I don't think that's what Drayco had in mind...there's the raffle idea that's been tossed around a couple times; I'm not sure what's going on with that. All else that comes to mind is a game or two you could play on the site...but this is DI, not Neopets. Little games seem kind of...unfitting. That, and they'd be even more work for admins.

Well...that seems to have been quite a rant with little to no content. Er, anyone else?

Then it would be too easy and ppl would gain levels quickly and become disinterested with the site. Have you ever played an MMORPG where gaining levels is super easy? Take Diablo II for example. Sure it's fun, but you can get to level 50-60 in a day or two if you know what you're doing. So after about a month the game's stale already because you've already maxed your character and used items you found to trade for awesome equipment.

Getting P.Skills is more of a privilege than a right - that's why you have to have them approved by us before you may use them. I don't mind the gifting them in tournaments to victors or to high scorers, or even just for w/e, like a drawing or something. But the way things are graded are the way things are graded. The amount of gold you all get has gone down, too, to match the decreased prices in the shops. Otherwise buying stuff would be easy as well. But I'm still experimenting with the gold amounts, so it may go up a bit.

Bleh.. Games you get tired of in a month, if that. I'm perfectly fine with gaining the levels I gain, and gold. Besides the fact that quite a few of the last quests I've been in, people have abandoned it. That erks me. But if you're seeking out quick levels and gold, then do solo's, so you don't have to wait for so long for other people to post, unless you've already tried that, of course. And as for the multiple ways of getting levels or gold, their's already the Tournament. Though another one isn't due soon, I don't think. But I'm sure some of the Admins have started talking about some means of letting other's earn more gold, or level's in a more interesting, and not so easily-earned way.

Eh. I think we're just a little off subject and I feel this one is nearly settled. It seems that many are for extra skills as gifts and as rewards for high tournament scores. Maybe it's time for the admins to decide if they really like this idea.