Title: Slightly random question
Description: involving Japanese
Nemorac - March 5, 2009 11:58 PM (GMT)
Yeah, I'm just wondering if anyone knows a decent amount of Kanji (I know they're originially from China, but I'm looking for Japanese meanings, so...yeah) or perhaps has a decent translator. I'm just wanting to know the meaning of these Kanji combined:
喪連句
Wren - March 7, 2009 03:19 AM (GMT)
I've been looking at these for the past 15-20 minutes, and I'd ask how or where you came across this particular combination of characters. I don't know the combination off-hand, though I'm familiar with the last two characters, though not together.
You've got SOU or mo (depending on reading, though "mo" means "mourning" (n.) )
REN - which is join, link, unite, connect. **This can also be, apprently, part, company, or group. Though I know it as tsu(ru) - to bring.
and KU - Phrase, clause, sentence, etc. or haiku.
All together I'm still trying to figure out... Which is why I ask where you saw/found it.
I haven't used Japanese in over 2 years, and even then I was only a 3rd year student... So maybe someone more familiar can get you further than that. But that's as far as I can take it at the moment, though I'm still trying to figure it out.
And there, below my confused nonsense, is an answer from someone far more learned in the language than I. Enjoy. XD
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
Lyra - March 7, 2009 03:39 AM (GMT)
Near as I can figure from my dictionaries and knowledge, it's a song or hymn of mourning.
If that doesn't make sense in context, well, sorry.
Sekai - March 7, 2009 04:02 AM (GMT)
Echoing Lyra in saying that "Mourning Song/Passage" would probably be the best way to translate that.
Nemorac - March 7, 2009 04:13 AM (GMT)
Yeah, the particular combination of characters via typing one of my character's names in Japanese then hitting the spacebar. The character's name is Morenku. The character's name isn't supposed to be Japanese, but someone said it looked Japanese, so I just typed it in to see if it made anything.
Lyra - March 7, 2009 11:55 AM (GMT)
Depending on the way you entered them, you can actually have QUITE a few different kanji that are pronounced each way.
Give me a short description of the character's personality and background, and I can get you a way to write it to mean something fitting. Or ironic. Your choice.
Nemorac - March 7, 2009 07:36 PM (GMT)
Well, he's a big guy, very kind, but lord help you if you try to hurt his friends. In .hack terms, he'd be a Heavy Blade for sure. Basically think of him as a sort of "gentle giant". The background I've got for him so far is he comes from a line of soldiers, but refuses to go into the military, instead opting to just travel around to help innocent people wherever he goes.
Lyra - March 8, 2009 12:33 AM (GMT)
I found for you,
莫廉功
Which essentially means "great, selfless achievements". "selfless" here also carries connotations of "manly", which means it's a fairly great compliment. Someone with a name like this would be named in hopes of bettering the world and achieving fame via it; it carries some irony in your context that his mother probably named him meaning more of the "manly" connotation, implying that he would win a great many battles, but it doesn't suggest violence in the words at all, only honor, so it would work well in this case. In my opinion.
Nemorac - March 8, 2009 06:38 AM (GMT)
Wow, interesting. ありがとう ございます!
Shugotenshi - March 9, 2009 01:42 AM (GMT)
Use Hiragana when making a Japanese native name, not Kanji. Katakana if a foreign name. Avoid Kanji with names if you are making one, it can just get confusing.
Nemorac - March 9, 2009 03:09 AM (GMT)
I figured as much, anyway. As I said, I just wanted to see if there was a combination of Kanji that matched my character's name, and knew that since Morenku was foreign, to use katakana.
Sekai - March 9, 2009 08:19 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Shugotenshi @ Mar 8 2009, 06:42 PM) |
| Use Hiragana when making a Japanese native name, not Kanji. Katakana if a foreign name. Avoid Kanji with names if you are making one, it can just get confusing. |
Unless you know exactly WTF you're doing and have taken classes.
...or you spend too much time in anime/manga studying names and know what you want and how to make it work.
For example, my character's name: 瀾の 世界
You read it as: "Namino Sekai"
Yes. That was intentional. XD
*likes playing with kanji and names*
Lyra - March 9, 2009 06:17 PM (GMT)
What Shugo speaks is indeed the truth; however, generally speaking, Japanese names that aren't character's names (since many character's names are actually puns of some sort) are written in kanji. Technically, there are regulations:
| QUOTE (Wikipedia) |
| Kanji names in Japan are governed by the government's rules on kanji use. As of October 2004[update] there are 2,232 "name kanji" (the jinmeiyō kanji) and "commonly used characters" (the jōyō kanji) used in personal names, and the government plans to increase this list by 578 kanji in the near future. This would be the largest increase since World War II. Only kanji which appear on the official list may be used in given names. This is to ensure that names can be written and read by those literate in Japanese. Rules also govern names considered to be inappropriate; for example, in 1993 two parents who tried to name their child Akuma, which literally means "devil," were prohibited from doing so. |
(Yes, I know it's from Wikipedia, but it was easier than trying to remember everything my teacher told me)
If you're careful about it, you can assign a meaning to a supposedly-Japanese name and generate proper kanji for it. However... the screwy thing about Japanese names is you can technically give a Kanji any damn pronunciation you want. It's not accepted, and it's going to make your child's name impossible to pronounce for most people, but it's why many people when asked what their name is, if it's not a very common one, will say both their name and the kanji it's written with.
Yes, this means the whole "My name is Light, written with the kanji for moon" thing from Death Note is totally legit. It also means that usually, rather than go through a lot of confusion, people will write katakana only or furigana (that is, tiny katakana or hiragana put over kanji to show pronunciation) when putting someone's name on a list.
Shugotenshi - March 10, 2009 01:31 AM (GMT)
One thing to remember is Japanese has only so many pronunciations, vastly outnumbered by kanji. Many, many Kanji have the exact same pronunciation as another. But using a Kanji makes it specific enough to have a defined meaning. If you use Hiragana, however, you can have multiple built in meanings (same as when speaking it).
There is a custom in Japan where giving gifts of 4's is bad luck. That is because the kanji for death (死) and four (四) are both pronounced "shi (し).
Obviously this is huge fodder for puns and double meanings, which is part of the art in the language. Use Hiragana in a carefully crafted name and you can have double, even tripple meanings.
C-C-C-C-COMBO!
Another interesting note, in Japan often times people ask each other to write down a work when they speak, to avoid any misunderstandings or confusion. The Nintendo DS is quite popular for this, at least amongst the youth (some older folk too).
The more you know *RAINBOW flies by*
Giggles - March 12, 2009 10:42 PM (GMT)
I hope this isn't taking in the context of hijacking, but what's the appropriate symbols for Innen Matsuro (Which I am understanding is to mean the origin of the end of days). It's a character name. I'll also add that this topic has further educated me in learning of the Japanese language. I'm off to go look up DeathNote now and watch it.
Again.
Raven - March 13, 2009 05:17 AM (GMT)
*crouches down, pulls out a notebook, and starts writing in it in a very Oe Kintarou fashion*
Benkyou, benkyou...
Lyra - March 14, 2009 03:50 AM (GMT)
Innen is definitey
因縁
I can't find a good one to fit that meaning for Matsuro though...
Sekai - March 14, 2009 04:04 PM (GMT)
Matsuro = 茨郎 maybe? "Thorns' Son" or 枌郎 "Pine Tree's Son"
XD; I dunno. The 'ro' kanji I found is popularly used as an ending for "Son" in male names. Matsu's a bit more difficult and is in a lot of nature based things from the dictionary I found.
Giggles - March 20, 2009 01:27 AM (GMT)
Perhaps it would help if I added that this character is a girl.