Well since reading the aforementioned thread, I have a question of my own. Why does it seem as if it's so difficult to gain levels lately? Unless the criteria changed in my absence, it seems that gaining good rewards is much more difficult.

when i joined, the average level gain was 1-3. i looked around recently and saw several +3s and a +5. so either it's getting easier, or everyone just suddenly became brilliant writers.

edit: i can't spell for beans D:

Eh, the +3/+5 were just walls of texts. I'm not going to say anything about their quality, since I didn't read it and I'm not going to pretend I did, but people didn't use to do that. At least, not to my knowledge.

You might both be right. I'm trying to come up with an explanation that doesn't come down to mathematics, though. I know I've heard a few people comment that it's been harder for them to get levels at lower levels, but I don't know if this is due to the players or whether it's really gotten harder. Of course, I have no idea what the criteria is, so I can't really answer for that. However, I'll note that the cases Chase is probably referring to were exceptional... Several players were stuck on a quest for a while and writing in the background for months on end. Therefore, the sudden 5 level jumps are the result of them completing their quest and then posting other long quests that they had in reserve. Whether those rewards were proportional to the work put out has been questioned, but I believe they were fair rewards.

Well, as one of those who recently got two quests graded with +5, perhaps I can answer a bit. I think that it's gotten easier for me since the time I joined in April 2007, but I believe that's simply because I've gotten better over time. Personally, I believe that Zan's had a set system based off of quality combined with page count (don't stress on the page count, though- he doesn't like that!). But, since I'm not him, I can't really say for sure. I don't think that the system's changed, but it's the fact that the writers are getting better.

And I agree with Kiwi... time is a big factor as well. While otherwise occupied, likely in the Eventide Crescendo's last quest, players had time to write long solos that easily got large grades. With the EC's quests, they have had a chance to develop technique and detail to a point that makes them even better writers.

As to my experience, though, I spent about a month on that last solo of mine, topping out at about one hundred pages of work, for a +5 levels. The solo before it was only about 35 pages long, and I got a +3 on it. So it's obvious that while it's not a major role, length does play a part in the whole grading process.

...And that's my two cents. Hope it helped somewhat.

From what I remember, the +5 level reward used to be something of a myth. To my knowledge, no one had attained it outside of mainplot since the RPG's inception, because the quality of work simply hadn't been there.

The first people to ever gain 5 levels from a quest were Silk and Zhirin for the Shattered Souls quest. To that point, it was the longest duo quest in Divvy history. I'll have to ask Silk and Zhirin for numbers around it, but I know there was a lot of writing. I was a third party in it, gaining three levels for my efforts (which, from what I was told, was impressive for a first quest).

I honestly can't say I know much about the subplot standard. I was only ever in two quests on subs before joining a main-like mob to completely blow the rewards system out of the water (when Main comes back, have a look at the rewards I got for Trek Through Tenebrous Tower). Five levels, two rares, and a whole bunch of stuff. Then I joined mainplot, where the grades are all in nighthand's hands. I can't speak for Zan or Sekai, but from what I've seen the grades are fair.

I'd say they're fairly similar. Honestly, I felt like the rewards I got for my latest quest was more than I would have gotten a few years back with Rayo - but certainly, the rewards have shifted slightly up and down. Overall, it certainly takes more to get a level now than it did at the site's beginning - but that's easy to understand. Aside from that, standards have, as far as I can see, stayed more-or-less the same for the past 3-4 years. However, I can only speak as a higher level player - I'm not sure how the standards feel to lower level players.

Also, to my knowledge, the 5 level per quest cap still remains. Yes, yes, I know, I got 6 in one, but I forfeited a couple rares in order to do so. Unless you REALLY want a rare, I recommend relaxing and just doing lots of shorter quests, rather than long ones... One thing I CAN state as a fact is that each additional level in a quest gets harder to achieve, both from the scale and just how tiresome it is to keep going on one thing.

Well... that's not necessarily true. If you can find a topic you really like, you'd be surprised at how well you can stick with it. My last two quests didn't bore me in the least, at 65 pages for one quest and then 100 pages on another in writing. Maybe it's just me, but if you really like what you're writing about, you'll easily be able to keep going.

...But I digress. Regardless, I think that the +5s are coming about more often simply because quality is improving. And Zan's not one to just hand out levels like candy- I can assure you of that, if you look at my quest rewards in my profile. I only got one level per quest for like six or seven quests. But I've been improving, and that's what's gotten me my big burst.

...Am I the only one who still believes that there's such a thing as writing TOO much? I mean, I'm on page 200 or so of what will likely be an 800 page novel, but... I always felt like there was a limit to what you could say in a quest without it becoming monotonous and repetitive and just a wall of text with no real content... (Not pointing any fingers... just... thinking...)

[/soapbox]

I can take the challenge on that one, for sure. Read my last solo, "Zodiac's Requiem- Gemini" - it was what set up Baron's storyline, and I don't think it was overly repetitious, for sure. If you're inclined to disagree, then fine, but it's just my opinion that it's possible to avoid repetition in long quests.

800 pages Lyra? Think about all the rares! 8D

Unless there's a rare cap that I've never heard of.

Ok maybe I'm just living in the past of divvy, but it's only been recently that everyone is comparing the number of pages to the amount of rewards. For example, as I was reading through random quests, I found one that said a person's post length was just shy of a +2. I don't know it just seems weird to me. Maybe my writing skills diminished and I haven't noticed... :(

Skimmed through the majority of posts here.

I agree entirely with Lyra and Lugia's comments. I mean. I've skimmed the majority of these +3 and +5 level rewarded quests, and I haven't read the content of all of them, but can't imagine how anyone could make such huge paragraphs throughout an entire post which outstretch the entire page.

Like I said, I never inspected the quality, but I can't imagine how anyone could diverge from a certain action or topic to another with such a blocky style; unless there really isn't any diverging. With certain quests I saw, the only reason for changing paragraphs was after implementing dialogue, where RIGHT after that, they'd proceed with those blocky paragraphs, and as Lugia put it, scripting nothing but walls of text.

The most levels I've ever gotten from a quest was 4 levels, and while some of my posts were long, I think I can safely say were quality.
Like Lyra, I personally think theirs an extent to which someone can write before it becomes 'too much'. Apart of the reason why I don't even attempt to read the majority of the posts I've seen is because of how thick and compact this new blocky paragraphed style is. It's just like. Here's my initial reaction after skimming a few paragraphs.

"...wow. This is pretty long." Then scroll down.

"...This is...pretty damn long." Then I continue scrolling, just wondering when the hell it ends, and what the hell could possibly be written about to such an extent. I personally wouldn't be able to 'ramble' that long if I wanted to.

So I don't know if it's gotten any harder or easier to level. I think length is apparently a big factor in grading, or so it seems, and that a number of players have to come to realize this; thus the long drawn out posts, and their high level spoils.

From what I've read, it actually seems harder to gain levels. But, thinking about it again, the situations I'm referencing were based on a scale and standard higher than, I guess would be, the 'general' standard. I saw a quest the other day that had 100+ pages in it, and received three levels - so, either the quality was similar to "hE S\/\/UNG hIS sWoRD n KILD iT" or the standards have reeeaaaly become more difficult. Not to say that, as Divvy has evolved, stricter standards aren't necessary; but honestly, for some of the effort I've seen put into these quests, the rewards (while adequate) don't reflect the honest time and effort put into them.

Maybe I'm alone? =/

Again, thinking though, I've really only seen the massive effort from higher-leveled (20+) characters, so maybe it's just the higher-leveled players who are being more harshly graded? Though, I've seen some other examples of lower-level effort flooding...

... hm...

... I should stop before I piss someone off.

>.<

Not that I'm entirely positive on this, but I think your current level also has an influence on the difficulty of gaining levels like Ex suggested. Just like in a real MMO, it'd probably be easier to get say, level 1 to level 2, than perhaps getting level 98 to level 99. Though don't quote me on that, I'm mostly guessing.

As for quality versus quantity, I tend to think that quality has more of an effect, though I'd be lying if I didn't admit that I suspect both are probably a factor. Though that's just me.

It's to my understanding that the par of expectation you're held to increases after level 20 and that's the only time there's a real change in the criteria.

In my own experience I can say that the grades held to me have been entirely equal to the effort I've put forth regardless of who graded or when they were graded. I lean to agree that the quality of Divergence's writters has increased as the bar of expectation has increased. As more people gain the level 5 rewards with rares, more people will want the same reward. Those people will put forth more effort and the over all quality of Divergence members increases. So, rewards will grow and it'll seem like the rewarding system has become more leniant but if you take the time to compare people's first quests with their highest rewarded quest you'll see the dramatic turn around.

My grading on main is fairly subjective, really. It depends on if you posted in all the rounds, if you posted extra, or if you missed rounds... it factors in the average enjoyability of your posts (and whether or not I was bored enough to skim), and often times (more now than before) accomplishing things IC has an effect: solving a puzzle boosts your rewards, while doing nothing to help the solution might even be a detriment. That's not to say that you'll get worse rewards by IC misleading everyone; that's an interesting twist. It also factors in your level; if you're a higher level already, you need to perform overall better to get more rewards.

To be honest, I don't even check page count. I know Zan's posts are excessively long, and I know people like Zhao sometimes post quite short posts. That's part of the overall quality and enjoyability, but, there is (in my opinion) definitely such a thing as too long. Especially in a team-based setting; reading 10 pages of one person going on and on about how they killed four monster is... again, part of "if I was bored enough to skim."

I'd just like to point out the obvious here but...

If you're RPing here to gain levels, don't. You need to be RPing here to have fun and for the sake of doing something creative.

Because you're an absolute 'tard if you are here to gain imaginary levels for your imaginary character in an imaginary world, if that's your only objective.

Sorry if I seem blunt, but I am. >_>

So does it really matter if the standards have gone up? Not really. It matters that you're having fun while RPing here. Anything else is pointless.

<3

Wow it was just a question based off of an observation. No reason to jump down my throat and start the namecalling over it.

That is somewhat offensive because of some of the other comments that people have made. Just because we were supporting the opposite side of the level rewards argument doesn't mean we're not here to just have fun...

And while I do this for fun, how long can you go around being lvl 6 without any progression, due to certain... cirucumstances. Not to imply that I'm upset with the lack of leveling at present.

Logically speaking running throught 2 events and 3 quests without even making it to level 7 is a bit of a stretch no matter how you look at it. B)

Events have never given levels and never will. It's also perfectly possible, even with logic, to run through three quests and not level. I've watched Domini, a friend of mine, go through INFECTION in three outings and never gain a level.

Seconded. <3

That's one thing I try to tell Mainers fairly often; If you're just there for hacks and pets and levels and power, you're there for the wrong reason. Main is just there for it's plot. Without that, it'd be just another group quest taking forever.

I understand what you're saying, but that's definitely not what I was originally trying to say. I think you should only be here if you want to have fun and improve your writing skills. It just seems as if the quests are turning into more of a quantity over quality thing, that's all.

Just to be fair, it is completely possible to go through multiple quests without picking up levels. If your post quality isn't up to par with its length, meaning it gets monotonous or just becomes a space filler, than it would make sense that no levels were gained. It doesn't matter how many monsters you kill on a site revolving around writing. The levels are more like a representation of your writing ability rather than your character's strength.

Notice how I never directed my comments at any specific person? I was speaking in general.

Wasn't attacking anyone. Namecalling... maybe, but it's justified if that's the reason you're RPing here. But again, wasn't referring to you, Virage, just people in general.

Thanks Night and Lyra for teh <3's. :-D Apparently I get very wise in a sort of fucked up way when I'm on Vicodin. xD

A certain amount of quantity obviously has to be there for later levels, just because of the effort that goes in/time spent on it. But quality will always matter more than quantity.

Wasn't trying to put anyone down, was just ABSURDLY OVERJOYED at hearing a player who was like "I'd rather have fun than write massive blocks of text that no one's gonna read anyway, because wall of black squiggly lines hurts the eyes, so I don't really care what my level or anything is!"

Divergence is not a competition to be the first one to a high level, or to have a rare, or anything else. You're more than welcome to do that, but it's not the only option. In that way, Divergence is very much like The World: open-ended, where you can pick your own goal.

Let me assure you, none of the current high level players got there without a shitton of work.

Hence why I'm still level 1. I don't mind it, and the reason I don't post very often is because I need to have fun writing it, or else I won't RP period.

Which is why I have such a lack of IC posts... o.o I haven't been in a very good place lately and so haven't had fun doing the things I normally enjoy. But, each of the 5 IC posts I've made, I've had fun writing.

*shrugs* I suppose I shouldn't have been so quick to push my own views on everyone else, so for that I apologize.

Even if some of the other members agreed with me. :rolleyes:

I'd like to add a third "<3" since I was about to write that "wall of squiggly lines" (XD) that sato wrote. Nonrewards are just as fun, which is why I accept them and put just as much luv and work into them. If people want to write walls of text and gain a couple digits in their sig, that's fine. As long as they're enjoying it! :D

Speaking of RPing for enjoyment. lulz at my pawn shop thread.

Half a <3 goes to Sat.

I agree with Stane in the whole 'non-rewards are fun' thing, but it annoys me when a non-reward would've wound up getting more than a reward quest of mine does, if only because the reward ones are usually solos churned out after creativity dries up and NRs are usually group quests, which are more fun and inspiring to write (to me, at any rate).

Though, let's face it... in games? You usually level a lot more when you're either alone/just with a healer, out trying to level, instead of off having fun with your friends.

Though I'm sure there are those who write a lot but don't write well, I've been lucky enough to not have seen them on Divvy too recently. I have less...interesting people I have to read from that don't write much and don't write what I consider quality, but...

Maybe I'm blinded, but that's why I like reading as much of the EC (all of it, in fact; GMing and such) as I do. Some people do write a lot, but I think it's good stuff. As for 'walls' of text, if you mean the paragraphs that are like a page in word then I completely agree. I don't write tiny paragraphs myself, but I've never done a 'wall.' I can't say I've been unfortunate enough to read this from many others lately anyway.

I don't see anything particularly wrong with long posts or quests, and honestly they aren't that hard to grade.

All ya do is just start reading it as they post it and you're no longer reading a wall of text, just a progressive story.

Of course if it's a wall of text and still crap then there is a problem, but as Zan said, I haven't seen many of those. *shrugs*

Woot, 3 and a half <3's. :-D

Right on, brother. Right on.

Then just choose your reward quests better, I guess. o.o

That kind of thing is on your heads. It takes some strategy, I suppose.

Nah, it just mainly has to do with timing. If we banked on another quest taking longer than one that just finished, and it didn't, the only strategy would be to ask for rewards to a quest we already gave them up for. My thought aren't coherent.

In those cases, it's just bad luck. We've all experienced it once or twice before.