Title: Commas
Description: When to use them
Devodin - October 9, 2007 08:52 AM (GMT)
I was corrected on my use of commas in my writing sample and I realized that I overuse them frequently. Is there anything I should know that would prevent me from doing this?
Magras - October 9, 2007 10:25 AM (GMT)
Commas are used to separate separate thoughts in a sentence. If we didn't use them we'd have very long run-on sentences and writing would be harder to read out loud. One way to check if you're using the right number of commas is to read the sentence out loud. Does it sound like it needs one? If so, put one in. If you've put in a comma, make sure that there aren't too many. Otherwise the sentence will sound like a choppy run-on. I'm sure someone else can clarify this if you're still confused, I've gotta go to school.
Centrus - October 9, 2007 04:20 PM (GMT)
There is a wonderful little website that I can link you to. While it is admittedly more for essay use, the punctuation section can be incredibly helpful to one's writing. Everything linked there is in PDF format, but they have a download of Reader readily available if you don't have it.
A Writer's Reference by Diana Hacker.
Hope this helps!
Devodin - October 9, 2007 05:35 PM (GMT)
Thanks I'll look into that page. I understand the basics of Commas, but I do tend to overuse them.
Arinyes - October 9, 2007 09:56 PM (GMT)
Actually, what I was taught in both school about writing and later as a teacher for reading to children, is that the comma is a moment in a sentence where a person will have a brief pause for a quick breath or just that slight delay between words, unlike the general dots that are at the end of a sentence. So, if you want to be certain, do read it aloud and wonder whether you'd really need to have a brief break in between.
WARNING: Don't do as Jim Carrey (Ace Ventura) and talk on without breathing. Known side effects are being a complete loon and talking with your ass.
Chase Raven - October 10, 2007 12:33 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Arinyes @ Oct 9 2007, 04:56 PM) |
Actually, what I was taught in both school about writing and later as a teacher for reading to children, is that the comma is a moment in a sentence where a person will have a brief pause for a quick breath or just that slight delay between words, unlike the general dots that are at the end of a sentence. So, if you want to be certain, do read it aloud and wonder whether you'd really need to have a brief break in between.
WARNING: Don't do as Jim Carrey (Ace Ventura) and talk on without breathing. Known side effects are being a complete loon and talking with your ass. |
That's not true. I believed that until I took English last year. I had a fabulous teacher, and this is one of the things she taught us. :)
A comma is meant to separate thoughts, and it should not be used as a way to tell your reader when to pause or breathe.
In dates:
July 4, 1776, was when the United States declared their independence from England.
*The comma goes after the day and after the year when the year is in the beginning of the sentence.
In places:
O'Hare Airport is in Chicago, Illinois.
*Separate the city from the state/province (or the state/province from the country) with a comma.
To separate elements in a list:
Red, purple, pink and orange are my favorite colors.
*The colors are the elements in the list, so there are commas between them.
In Dialog:
John said sadly, "My dog passed away."
*Separate the dialog from the doer with a comma.
"It's truly a tragedy," Karen sobbed, "that your dog died."
*When the doer is in the middle of the sentence, use a comma after the first part of the quote and after the subject and the verb. Then pick the second half of the quotation up with a lowercase letter and finish the sentence with a period, exclamation point or question mark.
To separate independent clauses (thoughts):
I think that pencils are great for drawing, but I enjoy writing in pen.
*You know to use a comma and a conjunction when you are joining two thoughts together that could be their own sentence. I think that pencils are great for drawing could be its own sentence, and so could I enjoy writing in pen. These two thoughts are joined by the conjunction but.
To separate an introductory phrase:
When it stops raining, let's go to the park.
*When it stops raining is the introductory phrase. Let's go to the park is the independent clause.
Hey, let's get some ice cream.
*Hey is considered the introductory phrase, even though it's only one word. Let's get some ice cream is the independent clause.
Use a set of commas to set off non-essential information:
Anthony Green, current singer of Circa Survive, also sings in the band The Sound of Animals Fighting.
*current singer of Circa Survive isn't required to have the sentence make sense, so you set it off in commas.
I think Anthony Green is a great vocalist, don't you?
*Because the non-essential information (don't you?) is at the end of the sentence, there is only a comma before it.
I think that's it. : / If I missed any, or messed any of these up, feel free to tell me I'm wrong and fix it : )
You do make a slight pause or take a breath where there is a comma, but that isn't the grammatical reason for them.
Guess who got 100 on her English final? : )
Arinyes - October 11, 2007 04:21 PM (GMT)
Hmm... I guess there is a difference between english and dutch then... True enough that in dutch comma's can be used to separate thoughts, but considering the variable sentence building, it generally isn't used often beyond linking two sentences that follow up on each other, or put in a sub-information/clarification.
Additionally, comma's are used when you list up a number of things.
Like: Him, her, his friend, your friend and my teacher.
In some cases, there is even the requirement to put a comma before 'and', especially when one or more groupings use 'and' as well.
Guess who did all right in dutch finals? ;P
Chase Raven - October 11, 2007 09:34 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Arinyes @ Oct 11 2007, 11:21 AM) |
Hmm... I guess there is a difference between english and dutch then... True enough that in dutch comma's can be used to separate thoughts, but considering the variable sentence building, it generally isn't used often beyond linking two sentences that follow up on each other, or put in a sub-information/clarification.
Additionally, comma's are used when you list up a number of things.
Like: Him, her, his friend, your friend and my teacher.
In some cases, there is even the requirement to put a comma before 'and', especially when one or more groupings use 'and' as well.
Guess who did all right in dutch finals? ;P |
I think everything you've mentioned falls under one of the categories I posted before.
Listing things would fall under separating elements in a list. Sub-information, as you call it, is what I call non-essential information.
I take German too, but I know nothing about Dutch. If they're similar in any way, which I assume they are because the Netherlands and Germany are so close, then I know what you're talking about.
By the way, if you think there should be a comma somewhere, you're probably right. Anybody who has been accepted to this site should be an advanced enough writer to know at least something about comma placement. And yes, places that you would pause or take a breath at are usually places where commas go. It's a quick way to check, but that's not WHY they're there.
Arinyes - October 16, 2007 05:30 AM (GMT)
-_- And yet another idiot commonality... trust me, dutch and german may 'sound' alike to you bloody foreigners, and they do have some common backgrounds, they are nothing alike beyond that. German is closer to english in many regards. And just because two countries are lying beside each other doesn't mean that the spoken language has anything to do with each other. The other side of germany is poland, after all... you think there's something in common between those two languages?
Where it comes to knowing where to put commas... well, I'm more an intuitive writer for the most part (I just somehow know how to do most of it the right way). Seeing as dutch is pretty much an intuitive language in sense of grammar, I suppose that sorta works out by itself. :P
Jpec07 - October 16, 2007 06:00 AM (GMT)
I'm guessing the relationship between German and Dutch is similar to that between Portuguese and Spanish. They sound alike to the untrained ear, but are two distinctly different languages.
| QUOTE |
To separate elements in a list: Red, purple, pink and orange are my favorite colors. *The colors are the elements in the list, so there are commas between them. |
I think I'll also point out something that a lot of writers don't do. There's a lot of debate over it, but something that I believe is called an "Oxford Comma" (don't quote me on that, it's probably something else). This comma is subject to much debate, but would be placed, in that example, after the word "pink" for uniformity's sake. It's not necessary to put it there, but by the same token, it's not wrong to include it. By this I mean that both:
"Red, purple, pink, and orange are my favorite colors."
and:
"Red, purple, pink and orange are my favorite colors."
are correct. I can make a strong logical case why that extra comma should be there, but since when have writers cared about logic?
EDIT:
I think I'll also recommend to you a book I read that was quite enlightening as to the nature of commas: "Eats, Shoots and Leaves." It is amusing enough to be entertaining (if only because of how eccentric the author is), but at the same time is very informative.