I want to say here and now that sometimes enough is enough. ENOUGH. Guys, everyone, take a deep breath. This is not good. Yes, problems exist from previous encounters that were not good experiences between various people in situations, but, at somepoint, the dram, the bickering, and most of all, the public airing of discourteous things needs to stop.

Yes, these boards are privately run and the first amendment does apply, but just because we can say something soesn't meanit is always right to.

I want to start with myslef. In a conversation in a thread here I tried to make two points about another board and some things that I felt had merit. I now am sorry that I did and apologize for it,and here is why:

As someone who has a board, I should have realized that you just don't trash - even if that is not what you were trying to do - some one else's stewardhip of another board. It is undermining, insulting and hurtful.

The right to these comment being made exist, but airing them publicly, I now believe, is not right.

Now, I have not read ALL the give and take since this exploded a few days ago, but I would like to say to both sides tha constant petty bickering and the back and forth is not becoming. Let's all move past this.

On the issue of banning, I don ot approve of anyone who came here and protested anyhting being banned. If they got very profane, or threatening, or the like, that is one thing, but if they were vehemnently protesting and sharing feelings, even if it wasn't in the nicest possible way, well, weren't we doing the same thing as a board?

Let me be clear: I support this baord (the cc) and care about the people here. I am posting a bit at cold rox again (and enjoying it), ran's etc again and have learned to be less judgemental and see things from more than one angle, even when I disagree. But, I am calling for an end on both sides to this silly drama, and I am calling for this board to set a higher standard, and, if threats or profanity are not aplenty, then let's be known for giving EVERYONE their fair say, even if we don't agree with all of it. THAT's how we can get credibility as a board.

This is my personal opinon and I will not be responding to any more of this - not out of discourtesy, but out of weariness.

- Chris.

shakes Ghostdriver I'm glad you said that because... :mischief: Kidding kiddingSees Merin with the bat.... uh oh... :eek:

<rolls eyes>

geez you guys...I'm not a tyrannt!!! :P

And for the PUBLIC record, only Colleen has been banned b/c she did not comply with 2 mods and my requests to quit posting in another language (about nothing b/c I had them translated :P) and she also insisted on starting threads that weren't real protests, just something to provoke my mods with.

So, Colleen is banned but nobody else.

I agree completely with this decision. Colleen was warned politely. if Merin kicked anyone else out I'd have argued with her :kundor:

edit: I also have to say that I had never heard of your little conflict before you all started making an issue of it on this board, and I really don't care or need to hear it. I'm sure there are many others here who would agree. I think if anyone has been seriously hurt by what was said on a discussion board, that person needs to take a few deep breaths and go spend some time in the real world. :s

if I can get along with those in power here despite my own anti religious views and annoying personality, I think anyone else ought to be able to as well. enough said :ohwell:

well, to be honest...Bron was banned for a little while...but then I decided that wasn't quite ethical and unbanned him...but his name is still showing up red.

Which is odd. So, if you guys had questions about that, now you know. But he should be able to still post and stuff now :s

My thoughts?

I said what I thought needed to be said for the good of both boards. How people chose to respond--admittedly, I thought the response was entirely too emotional and without really considering/understanding what I was saying--is their choice, which I cannot dictate.

I sincerely hope you all enjoy your board. It seems like a nice place. :)

good because your staying. if I can find enough rope to tie you to your chair

I don’t understand why you decided to ban me. I did not use a single slur, insult or profanity against anyone. I was civil and courteous to everyone. And now you made me go through the trouble of hacking through to your board. [sigh]

Merin,

What Colleen was doing was out of humor over your very own post about spaming other boards as an agenda. There was no reason to ban her.

Anyway.

As I wrote earlier to you:

Yours,

Bron

Yes there was. she was asked by Merin and 2 other mods to stop what she was doing. she didn't listen so she was banned.

Colleen got banned because she wouldn't listen to the repeated requests of the moderators here that she change her bahavior. you got banned by accident or because Merin was in a bad mood, I think. She tried to unban you and thought she succeeded :crazyeyes:

anyway, signing up a second account is not hacking :kundor:

I did not say anything about Brian or mods.

And I already said that if Vicki is hurt or offended she can come to me personally and tell me that. And I will apologize.

I also don't get why invisionfree isn't showing you unbanned, I lifted it <shrugs> try your old name Bron, that should be okay.

That's ironic because my 'Bronislav' account is dead and I am here due to some hacking.

how did you hack??? You just created a new user name.

Open up your Bron account and I will change the name to Bronislav and you'll be un-redded.

I was going to say something about all this, but nevermind.

I'm just disappointed and a bit hurt by the way some people have chosen to vent their feelings about CRH, Vicki and myself.

That's all.

I'm still waiting for Vicki to come over. I swear I will apologize but I will not apologize through Bron.

Maybe that's the problem, maybe that's why my back got up so high...to Vicki I'd apologize to.

Brian: I've never said anything about you. When I left you weren't even a mod anymore. The majority of my problem with that board were personal ones. Ones that you can read in my good-bye post...er...you're going to have to search for it b/c I didn't start my own thread, I kind squirreled it away in another thread :s.

Why don't you just send her an email?

B/c I'm not all that convinced that she:

a) cares what we say

b.) knows about this

c) is offended.

If Vicki is hurt or offended then she can come tell me here or PM me or write me an email (Alicianda@hotmail.com).

This whole ordeal is absurd. :snore:

*agrees with Haplo*

How imature. You gossip about someone publically knowing it's not a nice thing to do and then you must be asked for an apology before you give one? True apologies aren't asked for and it doesn't matter if the offended party feels offended.

Anyway, this whole issue is stupid.

And yes, she does know about this.

Quite.

I'm not saying she has to ask for an apology.

I do not want to apologize to her through somebody else. If she has a problem with me, then she can tell me personally and I will react accordingly.

You are acting vague and offended, not understanding where the blows are coming from… Let me clarify it for you one last time and then I am done with this.

Read what I wrote to Dan at CRH on this issue:

Read the last paragraph twice. If you don’t get it now then this is truly pointless.


Yours,


Bron

It seems like half of CRH has posted their $.02 over here, and since I’m no less opinionated or verbose than I used to be, I guess it’s my turn to do so.

The thread here spiralled beyond what it originally meant, so it seems like a good idea to look at what was originally posted.

The ironic thing about Mat’s statement here is that, in his example of the degredation of the board, he actually pointed to a thread that is an example of things getting better at CRH. Bron made an inflammatory post towards Ruh0, and two posts later, Mashiara lays the smackdown, so to speak. Later, Moridin also questions Bron’s flaming, to get another inflammatory response. So far, the only person who’s acted irrationally here is Bron; everyone else is either being calm or ignoring him altogether. Things get a little out of hand, then everyone jumps in against Bron. In a marvellous example of self-government, Moridin actually brings up the same complaint that you have brought up; that Bron has ‘poisoned the HB’, to use his words. Five or six posters in the end come down against Bron, and the thread is locked before it reaches a third page.

What in that thread is there that is so disagreeable? Granted, Bron acted like an asshole, but when everyone came down against him, surely you would think that the board perhaps isn’t in as bad a shape as you think.

But anyway, let’s continue.

This to me is an eminently reasonable and practical proposal. In fact, what we need on the board are more people who are there just to have a good time, and who are not affected by any bad blood from the Hot Button.

Sadly, this very practical and intelligent idea was met with Ghost’s uncharacteristically immature reply:

The subtext here is under threat of rapidly turning into, well, text.

Ghost thinks that Bron, the main perpetrator of ‘unfortunate things’ at the board, is using his influence with Vicki and Brian to get things done his own way.

Why would he think that?

On the surface, it could happen. Bron is friendly with Brian, although both have had their fallings out in the past, and he was for a while dating Vicki. But when you look at how the board is actually run, things start to fall apart in that hypothesis.

In practice, Bron actually gets more heat for the stupid things he says now than earlier. Just look at the thread Mat linked to... five or six people jump in on Bron almost immediately. There’s no special treatment there that I can see.

In reality, Ghost’s statement comes down to this: he thinks that Bron might be getting special treatment, therefore he is. But that’s just not true, because Bron is not getting special treatment.

This paragraph mystifies me. Once the emotive language is taken out, it really says very little. Mat thinks that the board has changed. That it has, but not in a bad way. You may recall, I was very heavily against Vicki from the moment she became admin. For maybe six months, I was convinced that she was going to ruin the board. It is only recently that I’ve been able to make peace with her. I’m as regular a poster there now as I was when SD was *cough* ‘in charge’, and I can say that the levels of moderation are no higher or lower than they should be.

I agree that the Hot Button is leeching out into other forums. But this was always the case. Debating controversial issues always gives you insight into someone’s character that you wouldn’t otherwise have, and often your opinion of them can be changed by that. An extreme example: Hitler may have been a nice enough guy, if you never talked politics with him. In the same way, a lot of people outside of the HB are very intelligent and engaging people to chat with; however, if someone says, ‘well, I disagree with you, but at least you’re not black,’ it tends to influence my opinion of them. That isn’t a bad thing. All the HB does is give you new insights into people; it does not twist or over-exaggerate any of their characteristics.

This is unacceptable, and what many people had issue with. A poster at CRH and Merin’s board, who many people at the board liked, insulting the admin of the board on flimsy grounds in a very thinly veiled insult on her character. This was completely unjustified, and as it should have been obvious that a personal attack like this would have been seen by posters on both boards, should have been at the very least challenged by the rational-minded members of the forum (by that, I mean all of them).

Instead, we get:

Merin, as an administrator of your own forum, surely you know how little you would appreciate it if you came to CRH and found people openly insulting you and gossiping about your personal life. Moreover, as a human being, unless you really did hate Vicki, there is no reason to spread gossip concerning her personal life unless she expressly gave you her permission or, even better, told you herself that it was alright.

I would like to throw this out to you, Merin: why did you post that? I’m not asking for an in-depth reason, just a simple what value do you think that particular comment, in the manner you delivered it, added to the conversation?

I hope that my post here has given you all a new perspective on this issue. If there is anything else you would like to know, do not hesitate to ask me. I guess, if I could say anything to y’all, it would be to come back, check it out, and try not to come to conclusions too quickly about the ‘new board’. The only difference between this and the ‘old board’ is that SD posts more :P.

Yours,

Mike.

Mike, we already have a thread (and others) about this topic, please confine comments to those threads. There was no need to start a new thread.

Also, please look in your inbox.

Since I cannot answer for Mat and Ghost I will leave them to answer your questions...although I am sure they are tired of answering the same questions over and over again, no offense :s :flash: .

But here are my answers:

You mean like those threads started up about me leaving and what a bitch I was for DARING to say that I wasn't fond a few people who at the time got a real big kick out of posting a series of anti-christian threads and posting constant anti-christian comments. For no good reason??? Like the thread I left in. What was that topic about anyway??? Something mundane...but Colleen just HAD to say something about how stupid Christians were...I don't even remember how it connected with the thread. But I got sick of it and I just reached the point where I decided that I was no longer happy at that board. That i was tired of coming online and having to "ignore" constant attacks on my core beliefs.

That in of itself is not a crime. To leave a board that I was not happy with. And yet I was attacked.

I knew of those threads being started about me. I knew of the comments flying around about me. I read a few. I had people getting on IM or writing me emails asking if I knew what others were saying. And do you know what my response was??? "I am not a member of that board. I do not care, they can say what they want. I am not going to bother myself with trying to defend anything I said."

And do you know why I said that??? Because I understood that the board and its members by itself are allowed to say what they want underneath the board's guidelines. And here is where the old saying "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen" I left the kitchen and set up my own home somewhere else. Also, Colleen had a lot of fun at that time saying that if her comments bother the Xtians so much that nobody is forcing them to read her comments. She even advised Ruh0 to avoid threads that looked like Christian bashing. I started my own board, nobody is forcing you to come here and read.

As to WHY I even bothered myself to write what I just did, I'd like to point out: if you don't want your private life discussed...don't post about it. Vicki and Bron both posted quite openly about their relationship and Bron has posted quite openly about his relationships with girls since then. All public posts. And since the posters posted publically then the contents are public property and up to discussion.

I also said what I said b/c talking about past and future relationships is something you do with your friends. And I was talking with my friends. I had no idea that my board was under scrutiny by Bron. But I don't like Bron. This is also a well known fact, so I could care less if he is offended. Which I don't really think he is. I think he's just happy that he can nail 2 of his most unfavorite people in one blow.

Vicki is another thing altogether. To her, I'll apologize. But all I hear is stuff from Bron. Like I said, she can email me privately or PM or whatever and I will give her a heartfelt, sincere apology. And I mean it. But so far Vicki doesn't seem to care what I said. I hear only vague things from her from Bron. I will not apologize THROUGH somebody. Like I said before, if she has a problem with me, bring she can bring it to me directly. You guys are making it sound as if I am asking her to BEG for my apology. Which is not the case. I find that idea distasteful.

To Brian??? I never said anything about Brian OR mods. Anything I might have said about moderation was about the time during which there were NO mods. And that was just to say that I think there should be mods to keep things balance. Read my post about balance. It's there, I swear.

Also, you cannot come on my board and criticize us for discussing your board. We have opinions. I see your guys' opinions about my board. You see it as infantile, pointless, stupid, moronic, etc. And you guys are entitled to your opinions. You have people over there now calling me a child who needs to grow up. You say that I whine. So far, on this board I see a lot of people joining up to just to "whine". And yet I do not reply over there b/c YOU ARE ENTITLED TO YOUR OPINION!!!

I also find the idea that you guys believe that just because you can invade a board and raise a riot that you can change its rights to express opinions freely. You can't monitor every board out there. You can't stop me or anybody else from having an opinion about your board. And my board is NOT the only one that has opinions about your board.

I'd also like to point out that I could have banned every single one of you from this board before you made even ONE post. Colleen said recently that IP banning does nothing. But it does. B/c so far she hasn't made a post. Have you Colleen??? And I know you've tried b/c invisionfree is quite wonderful in that area of letting me see what every poster or potential poster is doing.

And I only banned Colleen after she failed to comply to our REPEATED warnings and she ignored my mods' requests to quit opening new threads commenting on her closed spam fest threads. What about her accusation of me saying that I condone spamming??? I already explained that to her. Recently I let a bunch of my friendscome over and post, but they spammed the place making all my regular members angry. The "spam fest" lasted a day but at the end of it I was already swearing that it wouldn't happen again. So my comment was a poke at myself...a sense of humor in the face of humility. I do not condone spamming, even though it can be fun. I'm fairly lenient when it comes to that sort of thing b/c it doesn't happen so often but my posters understand that when it does happen it's short term and when warned they quit. Colleen was warned and did not quit.

Did I ban Bron??? Yes, in a moment of anger. But after a couple of minutes I went back and unbanned him. Then invisionfree went wonky and I told him to sign in under his oldest account here (he has 3) and I will change the name of that one to the current one AND bring his post count up to combine the 2 accounts. He did so and I did so.

To sum up my point: we're allowed to freely express our opinions and what you post on a public forum is public property. If you don't want it discussed, don't post about it. This whole thing is a great example of that. I posted something intended to be between friends, but the public saw it and discussed. Am I telling you that you can't discuss this??? No. The thing I am most upset about it is the demand that we apologize for something that is not wrong. That, and Bron rubs me the wrong way. If it were you or Algicide or Dai Shan in one of his calmer moments I probably would have been able to keep the malice out of my posts.

:s

I'd like to add just one more thing: A fair number of my posters here do NOT come from Vicki's board. And because of all this mess they have expressed the opinion that they do not feel that it's quite right for them to post if a problem not concerning them is going on. So for the past couple of days they have not been posting. You guys have my final word on everything, so make your final points and please either leave or move onto regular posting here.

(Snuggles & :kiss: Merin) Couldn't say it better my self.

Merin, I wish you made me admin so I can ban colleen, that would have made me happy.

everyone else, go away, you aren't wanted, get a F**KING HINT!

BTW, if people talked about me on Cold Rocks, I would find it amusing and laugh, then go on with my life. I could care less what you people think of me.

Couldn't care less. It's couldn't care less!

**Gibbers crazily to self**

Is crazily even a word? I have no idea. :(

Anyway, well said. :)

Hangs upside down tapping the top of Gimpy's head til she looked up And does Stitches "H-Hi".

I know...I have THOUSAND typos in that post...I kept reading them and thinking "I should edit this post..." and then I tell myself "But you're too lazy" And I nod.

Oh it doesn't do much hun. You're right though, with you hawking over new registrations I couldn't do much. You couldn't keep that up forever, but I really didn't care enough to bother with it the next day, and it would have reflected poorly upon Ghost. I really didn't have much against you, never did, though I'm sure you believe otherwise.

As for the rest of your venomous tirade, and how all I do is run around finding christians and attempting to kill them like a starving hobo on meth, I really can't understand where you're getting that.

Do you remember what it was in that thread I said that made you flip out and leave? I do.

It was a book thread, in general, and people were joking around with the topic, you posted something along the lines of "hay guys christian ficiton is cool", and I made a post saying something like "oh that's just too easy, I'll let it go since I like you"(I did, at the time). That... THAT is what made you leave; I didn't even make the obvious joke. I'm not looking for you to defend your decisions or whatever, you do what you like, I don't need or care to know why. But don't go saying that I date-raped your religion or something, Merin. Simple fact is, in the general section religion was basically a non-issue unless it got brought into a discussion by somebody using it as justification. Oh, yeah, sure it came up in some other threads, I remember one or two that were most amusing, but I'll do you the courtesy of not reminding people, heh. And I don't think ruho has any problem with me, if he does, he hasn't spoken up about it. For the record, however: I do not hate christianity, I hate organized religion, I hate that some people twist and distort christianity to be some sick denial their own humanity, and I hate the use of christianity as a justification for laws etc. Maybe you agree, maybe you don't, I really couldn't care less(thanks Gimpy for catching that, it drives me up the wall when people say "could care less", or "I'd just assume"), but at the very least keep your facts straight, please. It isn't as if it effects you any more anyway.


Anyway, I came here to clear the air, so to speak, after ghost informed me that I was no long forced to use a proxy to read/post/etc since I was unbanned, but instead I had to do a little setting the record straight. That's fine, whatever, seems I'd just be wasting my proverbial breath. I have only the one request for you, Merin, if you feel the need to talk about me, or anybody else, in a pubilc fashion, have the decency fortitude to do it to their faces. Your (incorrect) gossiping about people at CRH was what started all this, after all.



edit: It appears orla's[sic] name is yamsed to Gimpy, so uh, yeah, thats who I was refering to,

I like that better. :P


Gimpy!! I love that.